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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[SPEC] The Monster, Ancient References
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picsel815
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Joined: 24 Aug 2007
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 		[SPEC] The Monster, Ancient References
Typical Abramsness maybe included for the Monster
Anybody who is a keen fan of JJ Abrams' LOST knows that the show includes a lot of Biblical references for example : Ben being the son of Jacob. Amongst others. My point is that JJ Abrams likes to have a lot of depth and multiple dimensions to his work - including references to The Bible.

The Book Of Revelations is the only Book in the Bible that is completely made up of Apocalyptic Literature (Source: Wikipedia) There are many tales of apocalyptic events in The Book of Revelations. For a fullcopy of The Book Of Revelations there is a link HERE

But there is one chapter of The Book of Revelations which particularly catches my eye. This chapter is Chapter 13 (Unrelated: Chapter 13 is also an unlucky number Very Happy)

Here is Chapter 13: (Put in Spoiler tags because i preffered the look to the CODE tags lol)
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
1) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6) And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Cool And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9) If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10) He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13) And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
1Cool Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


Now here are some interesting points. Chapter 13 consists of Verses 1-18 (Surely i dont need to tell you the link there) Then there is also the point about him coming from the Sea linking to Leviathian monsters. It also talks about a multiple headed monster (which conincedentally looks like a Leopard - Big Cat - And has the mouth of a Lion). It also says the monster had the power of the dragon - Fire (eg. The Explosion)

In the 18th Verse there is also alot of references to the number SIX which is another reference.

Now if we search The Book of Revelations on Google Images we get some interesting images




NOTE: I am not saying that one of these creatures is definitely the monster but I think they are related because of Abrams' previous references to the bible.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:21 pm
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SisBear
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 		Funny coincidence, but I just posted a hydra theory in another thread. I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with that theory, but just happened to post it close in time to yours. Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:25 pm
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pegassissy
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 		Yes
Yes this is all true, and i agree that this will have something to do with a religion, so i agree with you. Wait until around three when the kids get out of school. They are gonna try to shoot this down. If anyone says that JJ said that he wont mix religion in provide a source, cause ive never ever seen this quote. I said this a while ago too. thanks for bringing it up again. Either this or my river thames theory is right guarenteed.
Edit: Notice the picture. The lion thing with many heads is coming out of the water, The other cat like thing is coming out of the earth(earthquake), and a firebreathing dragon

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:47 pm
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picsel815
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 		bump

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:21 pm
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nooneimportant77
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 		Censored its a loin


refering to the picture not what i the monster will be



[EDIT] Edited for language, there's absolutely no need for this! --Gisk

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:23 pm
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Lawlbringer
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 		The people are scarier than the beasts.

Especially Uhura and Magnum in the front.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:42 pm
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picsel815
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 		I dont think thats what the monster will be i just thought that those pictures were based on the reference, they have multiple heads come from the water and some of them happen to be lion/BigCats

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:43 pm
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Truthspeaker
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 		I personally love your rendition of the theory. But two things strike out.

1= Numerology. After the FAILED attempt to bring numerology in the Limelight (SEE!?! I MADE A RUSH PUN) I would doubt another filmmaker as smart as JJ would attempt something that would for sure drive him into the dirt. Besides if I bothered the Geddy Scientists enough (And or took away the supply of Twinkies and Ho-ho's in the lab) they could somehow link the numbers of 1 18 08 to any number of things.

2 = Iron Maiden did it better.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:53 pm
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suckaH
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 		Wouldn't that be great if it did have a lion reference. JJ made it difficult to tell and we have confirmed that it does say "alive," but that would be the biggest slap in the ace to everyone analyzing this thing if it was a lion.

I mean, just because it says "it's alive" doesn't mean that it still couldn't be a lion. JJ you sly bastard.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:27 pm
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Oniduo
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 		You know recently in the news we've been hearing more and more about prehistoric creatures actually living like that shark in japan....or whereever it was....maybe the creatures like that? Been living on the depths of the oceans forever and comes up because its sick and dying and wishes to take its wrath out on the polluted world then at dawn after its vented it just dies?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:04 pm
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picsel815
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 		Any other thoughts?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:19 am
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DaMirrorLink
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nooneimportant77 wrote:
Censored its a loin


refering to the picture not what i the monster will be


that a leopard not a lion

idiot

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:11 am
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Ecks51
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 		Re: [SPEC] The Monster, Ancient References
Typical Abramsness maybe included for the Monster
picsel815 wrote:
(Unrelated: Chapter 13 is also an unlucky number Very Happy)


What proof do you have that 13 is an unlucky number? It's never been unlucky for me.

There is no point is shooting down your theory however, I will say this. I think it's hilarious that my wife, whom has read the text of reference many times, laughs at all the theories based on it.

I've asked, as many others have, for a citation on J.J. saying he wouldn't use religion in his films, but nothing has come of it.

Also of point J.J. created LOST, he doesn't do all the writing and story development. Just like it appears he's created this monster, but he isn't credited for writing the movie; only producing.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:00 am
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Lawlbringer
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 		Spielberg didn't write Jaws, but when you watch Jaws you think three things.

John Williams, Steven Spielberg, and "Damnit, Richard Dreyfuss has the most annoying voice"


Spielberg had final say on what the shark looked like, and decided that it wasn't to be fully revealed until the end of the movie.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:28 am
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Melampus
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picsel815 wrote:
I dont think thats what the monster will be i just thought that those pictures were based on the reference, they have multiple heads come from the water and some of them happen to be lion/BigCats


All you've really got here is:

1. J.J. used Bible references in Lost.
2. It's been argued that the monster might be chimera-like, i.e., a blending of various animals. There are no solid references or hints about this - it's a theory and it's pure speculation. (and, I'm one of those speculators, so I've got nothing against it).
3. There are 18 versus in Chapter 13 of Revelations. (but, like Jim Carey in "The Number 23" I'm sure we can find many instances of the number 18 if we start lookin').
4. A seamonster, i.e., "Leviathan," is involved in Revelations.

The fact that there are lions/Big Cats involved in your painting/picture is completely irrelevant. People thought they heard "it's a lion!" Those people were wrong. So, stop with the @^%#$ Lions already! Bang Head

Anyway, what you've got is a vague possibility, but it's very thin. I like the general idea, but I just don't see any real convincing reason to believe things will go this way.

FWIW, here's something about Leviathan:

The ancient Babylonians and the ancient Canaanites both had creation myths that involved combat between a younger god ("Marduk" for the Babylonians, and "Baal" for the Canaanites) and an older god. The older god, in both cases, was a relatively chaotic god of the sea ("Tiamat" - Babylonians; "Yamm" - Canaanites). The younger god is victorious and creates the world out of the dead 'body' of the sea god by 'dividing the waters' and placing the Earth in the middle; hence we have blue skies above and water all around, i.e., the Earth was believed to have been encased in water. Now, there's some fairly strong evidence that the ancient Israelites also had a similar creation myth, long before Genesis was recorded around 586 B.C.E. (when Israelites were in exile in Babylonia). In the Israelite version, their god "Yahweh" defeated "Yam" a.k.a. "Leviathan." [explaining the transition from this earlier (and oral) combat-myth w/Yahweh and Yam, to the monotheistic story found in Genesis is a complicated one, so I won't go into it, but it all makes sense, just so you know].

So, Leviathan is both a primordial sea-god (from which the Earth was created, so TOO BIG to be in a 'monster-movie'); but also, a many-headed 'monster' as found in Revelations. Nowadays, of course, "Leviathan" is just a general term for any disproportionately big and strong... thing. (e.g. Thomas Hobbes referring to the State, i.e., the King or gov't, as "The Leviathan").

Anyway, just FYI.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:18 pm
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