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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[RANT][META] Cesspool of bickery about what is/is not spam
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Quote:
is appropriate for a group such as Unfiction.com to pursuade members to refrain from posting things which are irrelevant to the function and purpose of the site; however, it is never appropriate, and is formidable to Communistic tyranny alone, to force into silence those opinions which differ from those who are discussing the same subject.


No one was forcing anyone into silence, people just have a different point of view than you do. Don't confuse disagreement with censorship. The only people who get "silenced" here are those who flagrantly break the Terms of Service, which, you might want to review.

Is it at all possible that we, and I mean all of us, can discuss an opinion without resorting to insults? Calling someone names serves no other purpose than to try and start a fight, and I'd rather we don't do that again.

Scrappy is right when she asked you to let this die. (sorry for not listening Scrappy.) The only reason I'm responding is that I've asked you to ignore stuff about 10 times now. Smile

I don't know why we community members in this subforum have such a hard time with that concept. Think of someone having an argument near you at a bar or while you're waiting for a train. They may want to drag in innocent bystanders, wouldn't you, most of the time, just walk away or ignore them? Do that here.

This applies to someone who asks a question for the hundredth time, you don't have to answer them with anything more than a link to an existing post. You don't have to answer them at all. You aren't obliged to answer someone who asks for information or thinks they've found something new that isn't new. Just let them be. Someone will give them a link and a trout and it will all be fine.

You can all think of more constructive things to do: work on the wiki, create some kind of contest. Be creative and think of some fun stuff to do while this promotion is interminably slogging along.

Here is the other thing: the way this community works, each subforum gets the culture and community that it creates, so you might want to think about what you are creating here. You, the community members of this subforum are setting the tone and the topics, not the moderators. That the tone and the topics of this subforum is quite different from others in this forum is self-evident if you look around.

There is absolutely no reason that I can see for this subforum to reach a point where constructive members feel driven out by the contstant bickering, just stop it, for goodness sakes. You guys control what you say and how you say it to the community. Think about what you want to create here.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:15 am
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Dr. Awkward
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Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 374
Location: Marunouchi - Tokyo, Japan

Rose - your sincerely a voice of reason...and thank you for setting
an awesome precedent as an administrator (as do most all Admins at uF).

"You got the moves - I'll give ya that!", Hatcher...Rundown

Brownie
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:40 am
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buildingblock
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Joined: 04 Oct 2007
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rose wrote:


I don't know why we community members in this subforum have such a hard time with that concept.


I know why. And I'll tell you before I go. Its because we're human, and naturally aggressive. However, in real life, being aggressive has consequences... we can be arrested, injured, all that stuff. On the online community the veil of anonymousness that we hide behind; the fact that no one knows who we are; this dilutes these consequences, and we feel unbeatable, and that we can do anything without answering to our actions.

We can flame, and abuse, and accuse (no rhyme intended), and point the finger all we want, with the worst possible scenario a couple of PM's written all in Caps Lock (thanks a bunch for those, DD). This lack of consequence makes us, as per human nature, to forget about others feelings and opinions. I get the impression that some of you actually enjoy it. However, after I flamed DD in the 'retarted' thread I felt really bad, once I realised that there was an actual person on the receiving end of it.

The way I see it, you/we have three options:

A) You let this all keep happening, and enjoy the drama of it. Accept it as tainted human nature, keep ripping into each other carelessly, let it go on, and enjoy the forum's newly acquired dramatic effect.

We'll get more and more leaving, and more and more newbies, and the problem will only get worse, until, ultimately, this great forum community will be ruined, and all our hard work laid to waste.

And then we'll make a discovery, like the movies title, or a new site, and that thread will always be second-best to one named 'retarted' or 'sess pool' or 'hey anyone noticed the photos on 1-18-08.com flip over?'. You guys seem to forget that this forum is (possibly was) pretty much the leading edge with information on cloverfield. I was lurking back in the days that the tagruato site was discovered and the myspace pages... this forum is totally different now. So now comes the other option....

B) We have a separate section of the forum for sensible, veteran (as in one-month old), up to date users that are putting in the effort and can discuss topics the way we used to. This is used at the thefuselage.com, where you can only join certain discussion groups once you have spent a certain amount of time on the forum and have made a certain number of posts. In this way we can have newbies gossiping about how the two girls in the photo are the same etc. etc. and we can have the guys putting in the hard gaming work and effort in the 'premium' or 'gold' forum rooms or groups.

C) We all just step out of our grumpy pants and GET ALONG! Maybe, dont go into a thread unless it says NEW or whatever.... whatever we need to do to alll sit around the campfire and sing "coom-by-yah" until we fall asleep dreaming of what we all are here for: What in bygeezus this damn movie is about!


Yes, my fellow unForum members,
"I have a dream! A dream that newbies and veterans can work as one in this world of cloverfield" ...sorry I had to throw that in for dramatic effect Razz

Anyway... you see my point. My fingers are getting sore, so I'm gonna wrap it up.[/list]
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:00 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Quote:
Its because we're human, and naturally aggressive

I (respectfully!)disagree with this assessment because I've seen many games be played with mutual respect, tolerance and kind helpfulness toward new playes who are joining.

I can safely say that option 2 is a non-starter. As for option 1, I think that is a non-starter as well. To the extent I can help influence it, I don't want to see anyone driven out of the community because a group of people who have been here a little bit longer think that they know more, have the right to flame them, etc.
.
Here is the thing, new people and new opinions are slightly more valuable than existing people because they bring new perspectives to the situation. So what if they ask a question that has been answered already? I know we need order and I know the guidelines for posting here. But, people learn.

Many people come from forums where either (1) every new topic is started with a new thread or (2) excessive moderating is used to lock or delete unwanted posts. We don't do that here. So sometimes new people take a little while to figure that out. I say again, that doesn't mean they are idiots, lazy or deserving of scorn.

Similarly, people don't need to keep warning new players that they will be flamed because the posters on this forum are so insane about the search function. People should search before they post. And many, many people do. Simply politely posting a link to an existing thread adding a trout and maybe reminding people that they use the search function works. The vast majority of the experienced players in this subforum are polite, helpful, funny, enthusiastic and curious people. I want them to stick around too and not be driven away. Several of the experienced players have expressly offered to help new players with any questions they may have. It isn't fair for anyone to imply the existing players are ruthlessly harsh to new players.

That leaves me with option 3:

Quote:
C) We all just step out of our grumpy pants and GET ALONG! Maybe, dont go into a thread unless it says NEW or whatever.... whatever we need to do to alll sit around the campfire and sing "coom-by-yah" until we fall asleep dreaming of what we all are here for: What in bygeezus this damn movie is about!


What I'm waiting for is the creative folks here to start thinking of other things to do while we wait. Other games people have had T-shirt design contest, poster design contests, haiku, limericks, music mixes, whatever...just make something up that will be fun for you to do. There doesn't have to be a material prize at the end.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:30 am
Last edited by rose on Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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buildingblock
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Joined: 04 Oct 2007
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rose wrote:

I disagree with this assessment because I've seen many games be played with mutual respect, tolerance and kind helpfulness toward new playes who are joining. I think this is just an excuse for bad manners and poor behavior by people who are bored and irritable.


Yeah I've been to other uF forums and noticed that the people here are somehow different.... not in a bad way

rose wrote:

I can safely say that option 2 is a non-starter. As for option 1, I think that is a non-starter as well.


I wasn't seriously suggesting "option 1". And I didn't really expect option 2 to be viable, considering how small we are compared to other forums. I was kinda just pointing towards "option 3" as the sorta only option :p.

rose wrote:

What I'm waiting for is the creative folks here to start thinking of other things to do while we wait. Other games people have had T-shirt design contest, poster design contests, haiku, limericks, whatever...just make something up that will be fun for you to do. There doesn't have to have a prize at the end.


Thats the best idea I've heard on these forums all month! Sorta like HUD's comic book! I'll try to think of something we could do.... maybe a "design your own tagruato subsidiary page" competition? *I'm not joking, or referring to the bold futura game jack*. I know you say there doesn't have to be a prize, but if I organize this in the coming weeks, could you, as moderator, maybe organize a uF t-shirt or coffee mug or cloverfield poster or something? I think you're onto something....Smile!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:43 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Quote:
I know you say there doesn't have to be a prize, but if I organize this in the coming weeks, could you, as moderator, maybe organize a uF t-shirt or coffee mug or cloverfield poster or something? I think you're onto something..


I'm sure we can think of something. I don't have any of those things in my possession right now, but I do know where to order an unfiction coffee mug and/or T-shirt.
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I love this site for being free, in every sense of the word~Spacebass

Mankind was my business, the common good was my business.~ Dickens


PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:45 am
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buildingblock
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Joined: 04 Oct 2007
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rose wrote:

I'm sure we can think of something. I don't have any of those things in my possession right now, but I do know where to order an unfiction coffee mug and/or T-shirt.


Sounds good... I'll PM you when I got it all sorts.... OMG I'm excited! Never organised a comp before! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:49 am
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Kingpin
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Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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Location: England

If what you said about being hounded off every other forum you've been a member of is true and not just an exaggeration then it may simply be how you conduct yourself and not simply because people are out to get you.


For the record, you'd made a lot of unsubstantiated claims about the Statue of Liberty and the perceived links with the Freemasons, I know that I and others took issue with that because the way you seemed to present it was that that those Freemason details were fact. You effectively dismissed the accepted idea of the statue, that it was a gift from the French to the Americans and it was for the American Centennial and effectively comitted the cardinal sin you've been accusing other people of committing here, dismissing an opinion just because it differed from your own.

I apologise for getting worked up over it, but you must keep in mind that I and other people love the statue and presenting such a radical view without the prefix of mentioning it was simply your opinion would almost surely guarentee a overly negative response.


As for this topic, a lot of the negative feedback was probably caused by people viewing you as being a hypacrite, a person viewed as a spammer creating a topic about what was and wasn't spamming. I'm sure you can understand how it would appear to people. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:26 am
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Kingpin
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Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 381
Location: England

Re: [RANT][META] F*** YOU
Because we needed it. Really.

Apologies for the double post.

hmghosthoost wrote:
.Dont you EVER Censored change the text of my posts!


That's incredibly immature, hmghosthost. The Admin or Moderators reserve the right to edit a topic title if they see appropriate, if you have a problem with it, take it up with them through Private Messages, don't re-edit the title telling people to f-off.

You've now given people a solid reason to not treat you with any respect.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:27 am
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clownnation
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Posts: 160

I made sure to give hmghosthoost a hard time because of how much of a hypocrite he is. He loses his mind if anyone says that they dont support his theories (or if he REFUSES to look and see if it has been posted already) He calls people NAZI but he is constantly telling US what we are suppose to do or not do.

But i leanred something. I think he is getting off on all this attention. If he is a consipracy theory loving type of guy , then this is fueling his fire. "THERE OUT TO GET ME! SEE? I KNEW IT!" I say, dont let his rants get to you too much and dont post back, and he will move on to something else.

By the way The rules are clearly defined for Unfiction. The Mods can edit your post whenever they fill it's appropriate. This isnt your forums. When you visit someone elses home, you have to abide by thier rules.

Now flame something about Nazi and Communist not allowing you freedom of speech.


(The proceeding has been an opinion only by Clownnation. This no way refelcts the views or opinions shared by the Moderators or users of Unfiction and it's forums. Anything said by Clownnation should be considered "cool" but not nessessarly hard stone fact. It is simply the way Clownnation sees the world. Clownnation honors people's opinion, but is a STRONG believer in that you have to stand for what you say. If you say something, be ready to back it up. Thank you and enjoy your stay here at Unforums.)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:05 pm
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clownnation
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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Oh and since this is the RANT thread....................


Why in the blue HELL did they make a remake of the Bad News Bears??!!??

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:28 pm
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konamouse
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clownnation wrote:
Oh and since this is the RANT thread....................
Why in the blue HELL did they make a remake of the Bad News Bears??!!??


I love you!!!! Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:25 pm
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clownnation
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 160

I think everyone has said thier peace. I say let it go, and start fresh. Dont be confrontational. If you have a wild theory, or any theory at all then please, by all means post it. Just tell us why you feel that way. Dont cry and whine when someone says that they dont see it that way. Just say your peace and movie on.

(but try and look around first to see if it's been discussed already, it waste too much bandwidth to repost, and then to catch flames about your reposts, when we could be helping each other look for the answer)

Just know, that not everyone is going to share your theories. but others will.

In other worlds, game on.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:18 pm
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clownnation
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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konamouse

I was looking at your profile, and went to your FLICKR page... Im stationed at Travis AFB... Small world

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:24 pm
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jojo
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Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 194

To be honest, the influx of trolls over the last few weeks had me ready to drop this game/forum altogether. After making what I thought was a sincerely helpful post, I dutifully ignored them, but found that they'd invaded the threads with their ineloquent drivel like some out of control ebola virus. I'd like to point out that when the offenders were banned, both had already posted many, many times in an extremly short period of time, which made it almost impossible to "avoid" reading their posts. I just gave up.

I'm just pointing this out because it's not the conflict or flaming or controversy that would make me stop coming here, it would be checking the threads and seeing 20 illiterate posts per day that are absolutely worthless in terms of value to this game. Not to mention that the bulk of them were incredibly disrespectful to this group as a whole on so many levels- blatantly disregarding the rules, ignoring the helpful attempts to guide them in the right direction, not showing readers the respect of at least attempting to spell things right or even form a coherent sentence, and assuming that their theories were by far the most brilliant and important ever posted.

Like any social setting, there are rules and etiquette here, and if someone completely and blatantly disregards them then - like in the real world - they're going to be vilified by their peers, especially when they don't respond to good faith attempts to help them fit in. I'm not sure the solution is to prevent this completely normal interaction from occurring or try to pretend that it won't happen. A more realistic solution would be to let the forum members decide whether an alleged troll should be dealt with or not, like a trial by jury. Not sure how this would work technically, but that seem's like the fairest way to do it. I think the vast majority of people on this board are sane and rational enough to where I would be comfortable with any decision they rendered.

In any event, I want to thank whoever decided to ban the offenders, because that sorely needed to be done. That's the only reason I'm here posting now, otherwise I'd be outta here, shaking my head in disgust.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:35 pm
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