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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Silver Ladder
[UPDATE] silverladder.com week 2: 18/11/07 - 24/11/07
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satims
Decorated


Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 275

 		michelle? I didn't say that

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:57 pm
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mgelles
Decorated

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 210

 		oh no. Two of us. Double your pleasure. Double your fun Smile
mgelles aka michelle
_________________
played Lost Experience, Occular effect, Geist, LGlabs, silverladder
lurking something is coming
playing:The Blackhand Coorporation

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:18 pm
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Wandering Star
Veteran


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 144
mgelles wrote:
I thought the missing words might underscore the apparent meaninglessness of what is said
Michelle



That's the impression I got.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:33 pm
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SunnBurn
Greenhorn


Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 3

 		The Blanks
To me the blanks represent what is at the core of criticism, focusing on what is not there. Critics tend to state the negative, "This is not good", This not worthy", This is not up to standards", etc... You can find what goes in the blanks if it suits you, but I really don't think it is pertinent to the underlying message.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:45 pm
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Horatio
Greenhorn

Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 7

 		To Waitress No. 2
The message you posted from the Two of Diamonds...

Quote:
Then from now on, try to think this when hearing music, for example: It's not that this song is worthless, it's just that I don't like it. Alternately, it's not that this song is great, it's just that I like it.
2D


...got me thinking about the notion of the "quality" of art.

To be brief, it seems that the Two of Diamonds is suggesting to us that art has no innate or absolute "quality" (though, for better or worse, societies come to place value, both objective and subjective, on various works and schools of art), but rather that the quality of art is plural and specific to a personal system of valuation that varies from individual to individual. The Two of Diamonds most certainly suggests that any "criticism" that attempts to claim the absolute or innate value (which I would contend is not actually criticism) of any art(form) is misguided and futile.

That makes ironic his or her assignment, which tells us to do "better." Of course, after hearing what the Two of Diamonds has to say, this irony seems intentional. I believe by asking us to produce "better" art, he is really asking us to produce any art.

What do you all think?

-- Horatio, the Student

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:55 pm
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Wandering Star
Veteran


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 144

 		Pehaps the theme is irony, not art after all.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:58 pm
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Horatio
Greenhorn

Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 7

 		In response to Wandering Star
Could you elaborate?

Do you mean that this is a trap (in a sense)? Assuming my previous post was correct, is the Two of Diamonds asking us to do "better," knowing that the prospect of doing so is impossible? I know a thing or two about traps, and this doesn't strike me as one.

-- Horatio, the Witness

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:07 pm
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mgelles
Decorated

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 210

 		I think I tend to agree with you. having just joined the game last night, here is what I sent to 2D this afternoon. No response as yet. Still hopeful of one.
Quote:

If you assume the point of criticism is to assign some kind of intrinsic value or somehow assign yourself as superior to the artist then such critique is not made with in the true spirit of art but critique can have tremendous value in helping us connect with ourselves and with others. A discussion of art tells us more about these things than the piece itself to say "I think this painting is great" or I think this music sucks" means nothing but to say why sparks discussion. To say "Billy Joel is my favorite musical artist because of his skill at storytelling and mastery of different musical forms or "I dislike this painting because of its seemingly random use of color" says something about me more than either piece, but it also might cause those around me to consider something they may not have about the song and others' opinions about something challenges me to think in new ways. You don't have to have a degree in art to have opinion about a painting but you should ask yourself why you feel that. Art and by extension criticism of it should be a gateway to connection, self-challenge and self-discovery not a means to merely pass judgment.

Michelle

_________________
played Lost Experience, Occular effect, Geist, LGlabs, silverladder
lurking something is coming
playing:The Blackhand Coorporation

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:38 pm
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umcookba
Greenhorn

Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 6

 		I don't know if we are to fill in the blanks but we ma need it in 6 months. All I know is it doesn't help with the current puzzle, but since I was fairly far along I thought I should finish it.

umcookba

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:32 pm
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Sythys
Veteran


Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 126

 		Lets try this... Take those blanks and fill them in with some of your favorite bands, musicians, albums and music artists. Read those blanks like a "Mad Libs" game you use to play as a kid. Then you realize that what the pages of text are saying, criticizing those artist is really negative. Negativity is very mentally debilitating, and if you're already a negative person, could bring you to have suicidal tendencies.

Anyway, my take is simple. If you can't say something good, don't say nothing at all. Look around you. When you can find beauty in everything, you've achieved what I think they are trying to teach us. When you can see beauty in a bee on a flower, or a piece of trash floating around in a whirlwind, or a glass bottle floating in a river current, you have found a euphoric state that many would die to achieve.

I have yet to reach that full state, but it is easier than it use to be. I've been in deep thought about this... and one or two drunken stupors over this, too. When you have a bad day, there's always someone out there who has had a day worse than yours. What does this have to do with art? Well, if you are like me... I was most creative when I was depressed. When I realized that they are people who have problems worse than me, I stopped feeling sorry for myself. I felt happier, but I wasn't nearly as creative as I use to be.

But things are starting to change, a little.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. the statement is as true as "one man's trash is another man's treasure". What you may see as pretty or nice is not what the next man might see. No one is wrong, each one is entitled to there opinion. That is the "beauty" of criticism.... But done properly, and perceived with unbiased eyes, you can see beauty without criticism in all forms of art.
_________________
"I'm all jacked up on Mountain Dew... Woo Hoo!" Texasranger - Talladega Nights

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:40 pm
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theRISKYshift
Greenhorn

Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 3

 		Re: To Waitress No. 2
Horatio wrote:
The message you posted from the Two of Diamonds...

Quote:
Then from now on, try to think this when hearing music, for example: It's not that this song is worthless, it's just that I don't like it. Alternately, it's not that this song is great, it's just that I like it.
2D


...got me thinking about the notion of the "quality" of art.

To be brief, it seems that the Two of Diamonds is suggesting to us that art has no innate or absolute "quality" (though, for better or worse, societies come to place value, both objective and subjective, on various works and schools of art), but rather that the quality of art is plural and specific to a personal system of valuation that varies from individual to individual. The Two of Diamonds most certainly suggests that any "criticism" that attempts to claim the absolute or innate value (which I would contend is not actually criticism) of any art(form) is misguided and futile.

That makes ironic his or her assignment, which tells us to do "better." Of course, after hearing what the Two of Diamonds has to say, this irony seems intentional. I believe by asking us to produce "better" art, he is really asking us to produce any art.

What do you all think?

-- Horatio, the Student



I agree with this interpretation of 2D's message. When I emailed him several days ago--sorry I didn't post sooner--that was the feeling I got.

My initial email:
Quote:

Subject: Outdone?

Hello.

I try to avoid uselessly criticizing works of art in any medium. Art is
subjective, and any standards for judging it are bound to be arbitrary.
I appreciate all that I am able to about a piece, and try to understand
it rather than belittle it. I am not conceited enough to claim that I
outdo anything or anyone, but I have at least attempted to make my own
contribution. This video may not be what you are looking for, but I
directed and edited it, and I am proud of it as my attempt to
contribute, rather than tear down.

Mitchell
theRISKYshift


2D's response:
Quote:

Sometimes you don't even need to understand it. All you might need to
understand is that ... other people understand it.

I'm having trouble viewing your video. Do you mind if I send it to another
passenger to convert for youtube?

2D


My second email:
Quote:

I enjoyed your wording, that one only need understand that others understand a piece. It's concise, yet conveys fully the intended meaning. Orwell would be proud.

The video is online here

Sorry I sent it in .wmv to begin with, I should have considered the issues it might raise.

Mitchell
theRISKYshift


I didn't get a response beyond that, but his email certainly suggests that it isn't about outdoing art, assigning a value to it, or even understanding it, merely appreciating it and creating it.

-Edited twice for misusing the quote tag

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:14 am
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incursive
Boot


Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 39

 		An E-Mail from 2D Subject: Diamonds Assignment

Quote:
Passengers,

I have two more things for you. The first is to give thanks. I give thanks
that so many of you have put so much thought into things.

The second is to send your final thoughts on this week, along with any
photos or graphics. These will be used for a concluding statement on
silverladder.com, so do not send anything you do not wish to be shared.
None of your previous emails to me will be shared, of course. Please
include your primary nickname because I won't post your e-mail addresses.

The concluding Diamonds Assignment is due by the end of the day Friday.
Please pass this on to the other passengers.

Happy Thanksgiving
2D
http://www.silverladder.com


PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:26 pm
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Wandering Star
Veteran


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 144

 		Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't get the two new music clips on the site.

Anyone?


Wandering*

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:14 pm
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mgelles
Decorated

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 210

 		My e-mail to 2D from yesterday
Quote:

If you assume the point of criticism is to assign some kind of intrinsic value or somehow assign yourself as superior to the artist then such critique is not made with in the true spirit of art but critique can have tremendous value in helping us connect with ourselves and with others. A discussion of art tells us more about these things than the piece itself to say "I think this painting is great" or I think this music sucks" means nothing but to say why sparks discussion. To say "Billy Joel is my favorite musical artist because of his skill at storytelling and mastery of different musical forms or "I dislike this painting because of its seemingly random use of color" says something about me more than either piece, but it also might cause those around me to consider something they may not have about the song and others' opinions about something challenges me to think in new ways. You don't have to have a degree in art to have opinion about a painting but you should ask yourself why you feel that. Art and by extension criticism of it should be a gateway to connection, self-challenge and self-discovery not a means to merely pass judgment.

Michelle


And his response

Quote:



That is the heart of the problem. That critics feel that art is worthless without their input. That art cannot be appreciated without a filter. That art is YHWH and that critics are rabbis, writing their own Talmud of criticism. That by justifying their own opinions, they can be considered as worthy and vital as the artist is beyond hubris.

2D

[/quote]
_________________
played Lost Experience, Occular effect, Geist, LGlabs, silverladder
lurking something is coming
playing:The Blackhand Coorporation

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:14 pm
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satims
Decorated


Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 275

 		2D Final Statement
Bulletin
Date: Nov 25, 2007 1:39 AM
Subject: Final Statement
Body:

"I had forgotten how
artistic I really was!
I realized I need these things
back in my life."
- satims


"…I did not put any effort
into this week
as I have felt you haven't."
- Matthew Smith


"I think Roger
Ebert's screenplay for
Beyond the Valley of the Dolls
is a great example of
the skill level that critics
have over the medium
that they critique."
- Valrik


"[I] need to turn away from
stagnant cynicism
and see again."
-rh


"the answer was so obvious
but so well hidden"
- Little Josh


"The assignment …
said what more people SHOULD say"
- Chronus Valtiel


"It's not quite true,
put up or shut up..."
- Paul


"I welcome change, but only
when I feel it is necessary
to better myself."
- Fish


"Don't just say something
is good or bad, think about
*why* it makes you think that."
- Analog Watch


"Less is more."
- theRISKYshift


"Change
comes from action."
- Timestalker


"Are we letting others
tell us what to think,
eat, drink, and
manipulate us into a
homongonized,
unthinking zombie?"
- Sythys


"Your exercise was new,
refreshing even.
When I got to the end
and realized how hard
I had been thinking into
something rather simple
and meaningless,
it really made me question
whether I've been looking
for meaning in any part
of my life where
there really isn't any..."
- crfog


"While this week wasn't filled
with phone calls and page
refresh marathons,
it was filled with thought
provoking catalysts if you
so chose to look for them."
- Lisa


"All too often we tear down
what we cannot overcome,
destroy what we cannot create,
or find fault in something
that reminds us
of our shortcomings.
That seems to be the
reason behind criticism:
insecurity."
- Syncretist


"After all, we're only human."
- Taluria

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:21 pm
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