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[WF][Trailhead] Whitechapel Foundation: Open Cases
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		gotta love that Jade.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:10 pm
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Typoxic
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 91

 		Smoke unexpectedly messaged me whist I was in the chat. The answer category she offered threw me for a loop, and she signed off without answering my desperate grasp of a question.

Quote:
[6:13:03 PM] Smoke says: ?
[6:14:40 PM] Typo says: Green.
[6:14:53 PM] Smoke says: A color
[6:18:47 PM] Typo says: What color do I need to know about?


Seriously, what colors do we need to know about? If this comes up again, what brilliant questions should we ask?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:25 pm
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		today's color green
just in case.
Well, that's most definitely a new twist. So far we've had only Yes/No and A name. other than our color of the day, have we discussed colors before.? Man, I need to go to bed. A color? seriously. what next?

ETA: Well of course we've had colors. Those in 0702 and the shadows, the dark, etc.. I'm losing it.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:35 pm
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Typoxic
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 		Leaving aside the question of whether or not "dark" is a color, I'm not sure what we could ask about those. It seems to me she tells you what she can/will answer with - if the answer is a color, what could we ask where one of those (shadaws, the dark, etc.) would be the answer? Maybe there is a circumstance here where getting an answer that is a color would be informative, but I'm not seeing it.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:17 pm
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		Agree, I think it may have something to do with black or the color of the dying sun (what is that? orange?) 0702 and the motto is what I'm going by. In Shadow, Truth or Truth in Darkness. in umbra veritas and I'm sure we've read black, blackness, etc. many times just recalling each incident is the hard point. But the last few pages of this thread contain a few. We were just caught off guard. That's the way it goes. We'll be prepared next time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas

Side note: I may not be on much for the next day or so. Just got some bad (real life) info a couple hours ago.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:51 pm
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natas
PHP Ninja


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 3177
Location: Northwest Indiana

 		Hope everything is ok Sylvia... I hope you didn't get any of that ice storm that happened in my neck of the woods.... We aren't that far apart.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:38 pm
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		not yet, the ice/snow is suppose to be here by morning which makes dealing with the other part somewhat more difficult. But, I believe everything will be ok. I hope.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:51 pm
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Typoxic
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 		Sorry to hear about the bad news. Good luck with whatever it is, and hopefully the storm will wait.

The dying sun reference could go one of two ways; sunset, or actual dying sun. The sunset is orange (among other things), but when the sun dies it'll go red giant. We could split the difference and say orange-red, maybe.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:34 pm
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mortality
Unfettered


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		Jade of course ignores anything that he doesn't care about and cuts straight to things he can jump on or splash around in.

Jade wrote:
Hey there, comrade.

OK, somehow it looks like this note came in before I sent my other note at 17:22. Must have crossed in the subway tunnel.

I'll assume that this last set of coords that you sent is the final product, since they seem to make a little more sense than the ones before. I checked them both, and I'm really hoping that this guy wasn't expecting his pal Slider to go leaping down the southbound lane of I-75 just in front of what appears to be a small pick-up truck with a blue-green cab. Very Happy

This last set of coords appears to put us smack in the middle of what, unless I'm mistaken, looks to be a little bridge over a little stream inside the treeline at a big park near an area of town called New Tampa. (I could very easily be wrong about the little bridge part; I'm basing that on a tiny shadow I see at the max mag on Google maps - but we'll see).

Since I'm going to want some daylight when I go out there, it probably won't be until Saturday.

Any idea of what I should be looking for? I really doubt there'll be some girl sitting there ready to recite bad couplets at me. Is there any chance that this guy could be up to some "mischief" directed at this Slider? Unlikely, I would think, since it sounds like all this nonsense was set up some time ago, but you never know.

More soon,
Jade


Got an email from Ethan, too.
Quote:
me wrote:
We weren't so much wondering about whether 0701 is connected to 0702. It was more that he seems to be somewhat acquainted with, I guess, what we could call the subjects of esoterica, occultism and magic. 0701 seems to touch on those subjects. He offered his help. Maybe he can lend a fresh perspective. As long as you see no harm in letting him know about those documents, then we'll consider accepting his counsel.


That's definitely a valid point.

Quote:
Obligati is the plural form of obligatto. It's a descriptive plural noun, so it could mean "those who are obligated to God." Funs would've been English. A fun is an English noun for "an amusement." Funs plural would be "amusements." Doesn't fit because of the language switch. But you saw our subsequent speculation when we switched from Dei to Deus.


If we shift the language over to old Portugese, I think Obligatto was thank you, and I also think if was the root for the eventual modern Japanese of the same. (But now I'm just free associated, which I'm sure can be a boon or a curse in this field, generally the latter I would think).



Quote:
One more interpretation I didn't mention in either email, Deus Obligati Fin could also mean "the boundary of God's bindings."

We have not figured out how those lines relate. Or how any of this ties to a Pentagon. One possibility for the lines is that the square goes in the center and then the "Els" can be placed one to a side producing a four-pointed star with "L" in the center and F-I-T-O inside the points. FITO is a prefix for 10^-24. L could be the Roman numeral 50. Still working it all out.

We also came up with some more speculation for MSG3-5. We have two possibilities. We've been looking into the Occult aspects a little more than the Masonic aspects lately, because the Mason angle came up dry.

There are three famous Occultists that keep popping up: Aleister Crowley, MacGregor Mathers, and Austin Osman Spare. They don't all seem to fit...Crowley and Mathers were both interested in Freemasonry. Spare was more interested in Chaos magic and Rosicrucianism/Hermeticism. Two other names that make more sense with Crowley/Maters are Eliphas Levi and Papus.



I know I've been out of it for a while, so no doubt I missed (or forgot) it; but where did Mathers and Spare come from? I don;t recall seeing them pop up in this at all before?

Quote:
We're thinking that it's possible that three of them might be the names we need to put in MSG3, and then each one would subsequently be related to MSG4 and 5, and probably a future MSG6. We haven't found evidence indicating that they are tied to a 4-, 5-, or 6-sided figure yet. Nor have we found how they could relate to Luke's punishment theme.

Spare is noteworthy on his own for MSG3 because he had a drawing that could relate to the Triangle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kiaism-Diagram.gif



That made me chuckle. It really does look like something that could be related to these messages.



Quote:
You had mentioned that maybe the three names relate to "things." In that case, we could be looking at "will" "conceptuality" and "imaginability." It's possible to make a case that Enlil, as a god, matches with "imaginability," W. Wallace with "will," both his name and the fact that he died for a cause, and Ahasuerus with "conceptuality" because as the Wandering Jew he is tied to immortality and blasphemy, as the king he is tied to wisdom. No idea how this would apply to MSG4 and 5, or to the Solomon stuff.

Both are still stretches at this point. Working out the details. Wondering if you have any thoughts.



My thoughts are that sometimes I think that I am not nearly lateral enough for this stuff. When I mentioned Things I was still alluding to the Its reference, as in 'sealed its own fate'. The Solomon connection still seems to make sense to be, with all the various pieces we've seen, so I guess can't help thinking in terms of demons (or djinn). Maybe I should court another good high fever, that might help.

Ethan


Based on his responses, I'm tempted to drop those lines of inquiry. But he did give a clear go ahead to let Slider look at MSG1-5.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:42 pm
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		email from Ethan
Quote:
Hi Sylvia, how are you?

I know there is bound to be all the usual stuff on the Bermuda Triangle, so can you narrow it down a little? Is this related to one of the OC:0701 messages?

As for those other numbers, since you mention a location I assume those are some sort of coordinates. (Sorry, I'm not familiar with that format.) If they are coordinates, then I can confirm now that there is no way that I could search on that. We just don't have any data indexed like that. If you can tell me more about the location, maybe an address or a building name or something, I might be able to check it that way.

Regards,
Ethan


Since we don't have an address other than the middle of nowhere just to the right of Valleyfield Place, looks like Jade is the man for the job. Feel free to us any of this, if you guys need to get back to Ethan with an address or building, etc,. which of course depends on what Jade finds.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:46 pm
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petunia
Unfettered

Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 616
Location: MS

 		Wow, you guys... Worshippy Rock On Worshippy Especially Sylvia for seeing it in the first place.

Yeah, it pays to hang out on Skype. There's a lot of brainstorming that can be done there more freely than in this format. But as Luke discovered, the less you're on Skype, the more likely Smoke will zing you when you are there. (Today's code is green blue, btw.)

I caught up on the thread this morning, but I've lost all the finer points so I'll try to reread tonight.

ETA possible questions for Smoke if she says "a color" again:
What is the color of the dying sun?
What is jade?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:49 pm
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Typoxic
Veteran

Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 91

 		This is a bit long, so bear with me. His text was purple.

Quote:
Goodness, dear Luke, quite the chatty Cathy, we are. In an effort to not become hopelessly mired in my own, admittedly, mobius-like prose, I will endeavor to respond succinctly - for once, and by all means do not get used to it - and in a color that contrasts nicely with your own basic black. For, you see, time is of the essence, as I am off to a fancy dress ball.

Quote:
Quinton, you've earned my undying affection by avoiding the Star Wars joke. Everyone is compelled to make a joke, but the General Hospital angle is a new one. You're original; revel in it.

Oh, I do, dear Luke, I do. It was a toss-up between the soap and the apostles. The soap called tales.
Quote:
One of our tribe, one better at this sort of thing than I am, has figured out that the message has coordinates encoded in it. Every first letter represents a number, and along with the "zero" and the "negative" you're left with +28° 5' 38.33", -82° 21' 28.70". Apparently this point is somewhere in the middle of I-75 just outside of Tampa. An initial miscalculation left us somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle, which spurred a memory of something you said to Paul which didn't make much sense at the time. You said you've "been known to know a thing or three about certain triangles". Maybe that's what Philly was aiming at with this; even though the corrected location is out of the water, it could be relevant. You never know with this sort of thing.

So, let me get this straight; young master Phillip induced the fair Heather to spout some nonsense, the only purpose of which was to deliver the first letter of each word in the - I shudder to call it one - poem? Oh, such a scamp. And he wished me to cavort in the middle of a major interstate highway? Ah, the little imp. No respect for his betters. So first it's a dash to some lovely's apartment, then it's a leap to a highway across town...then what? I would have thought that there would be more in this vein, but what could he have hoped for me to find in the middle of such a place? And how would he have secured it there in the first place? Do you and yours have plans to continue this charade?

As to these triangles, m'thinks that you may be approaching the dread territory of the apopheniac. Tread lightly, dear Luke, that path leads to madness. Not all of the spider's skeins lead to the center of the web. The reference to the triangle was simply a contra-point to the mention, by Paul, of circles. Nothing more.
Quote:
It's come to my attention that the source of our interest in this Phillip guy was never properly disclosed. In the spirit of glasnost, I'll clear that particular mystery up now. We found a document in a private library that shouldn't have been there, and we're trying to trace it. It was encrypted and hidden between the pages of a very old copy of the Amphitheatrum Sapientiae Aeternae. The aforementioned better brains of our operation decoded it, and it described a ritual of some kind - one of a set of three. Using that information, we figured out when and where the next such ritual would take place, and held a little stakeout. That was when we saw someone (apparently Phillip) collapse and get hauled off in a van. He dropped a matchbook with Petra's number written in it, and cutting the rest down a bit, that's how we got led down the garden path to your doorstep. We know he must have been working from a different copy of the document, but if that's true they must have a common source. Our ultimate goal here is still to find out where the Amphitheatrum document came from.

Hmmm, there is something odd about your telling, but I can't quite place my finger on it. I believe that all copies of the Amphitheatrum are old, the good ones are, at least. So you know what this ritual was to accomplish, I'd wager. That, at least, should give you some more insight into master Phillip's pursuits. Was the imagery lurid? Was the fire of heaven called down? Were the unbelievers consumed in cleansing flame? Dear God, how tiresome some of these old documents can be, but I'm sure you know all that. You have a copy of this document? Is it titled?

So, are you antiquarians, then? A noble calling. Is the straight market for these artifacts still booming?
Quote:
That was a bit long-winded, but I hope it helps our actions make a little more sense. We're not in the habit of stalking random guys for fun. On the other hand, we're not getting paid for this, so maybe we are. Hmm.

Well put; and it seems that would answer my previous question. Not antiquarians, then. Please don't tell me you are investigators of the - shudder - paranormal! Even if you are, please do not tell me so!! My poor nerves would not be able to take the disappointment.
Quote:
For some reason the juxtaposition of "Colin Cowie" and "tiny little kegs" is a jarring one. Maybe we can get some ice sculptures of swans happening up in here. It's not a party, it's a soirée!

Finally, someone attempts to answer my question. Perhaps not perfection, but oh so close.

QS

Maybe perfection is an ice sculpture of a goose, then.

I'm of the mind that continuing the honesty (or "honesty") is the way to go. I'm thinking that in addition to ramping up the absurdly foppish banter (for the lulz), I should tell him we don't know what the ritual was meant to accomplish, and that we're not paranormal investigators - we've volunteered our investigative services to find the source of a disturbance in a private collection because we like solving puzzles. Boring, maybe, but true.

If it's alright, it might be worthwhile to chat a little about the nature of the ritual. He seems to be asking, and it might ring some distant bells for him.

I should clarify: it's not that I trust him, exactly, but I trust that he's not interested in disrupting our activities. It seems to me that the worst thing he would be interested in doing is keeping some information to himself. It's possible that's what he wants us to think, but I haven't seen anything to suggest different.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:51 pm
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		nice. good info Typoxic. Keep the convo going, however you see fit.

So let's think about "What is perfection?" clue is Ice

anagrams of perfection yields:

Code:
ICE PENT [FOR FRO]
ICE [TOP POT OPT] FERN
ICE PEN FORT
ICE PER FONT


got a couple google hits on ICE PENT. haven't really tried the others.

PURPLE, be sure if Smoke hits anyone up to ask about that color.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:40 pm
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Typoxic
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 91

 		The perfection hint may also be jarring juxtapositions or "effortless elegance". There was a lot going on in that clip.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:45 pm
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mortality
Unfettered


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428
Ethan wrote:
Dear Mort,

I see. Well, never hurts to cast a wide net (although the wider the net the better the chance you'll pull a muscle in your back hauling it in).

Hey, on a different note (sort of), I've been thinking some more about MSG4 (since I am downright flummoxed by MSG5). I was looking back over those searches I did, thinking more about how much I dislike Phil Colins's music (although I love that Cadbury commercial, best use of his music EVER), when I thought about the word genesis; not as in his band (actually Peter Gabriel's band), but as in its definition (i.e. creation, or a coming into being) or even as the book of the bible. Have you all thought about that? I figure you must have and must also have hit a dead end, but I'd be interested in hearing where it took you - if for no other reason than to keep from going there myself.

Regards,
Ethan


me wrote:
Actually, you just kinda shove the pan in the river and then dump what you find into the sifter and pull out whatever seems shiniest...

The WonderBra parody was BY FAR the better use of that song. Superlatively so.

Yeah, we did think about Genesis as the Bible. We tried some stuff...the Cain and Abel story's in there, and that seemed the most relevant given Tubal Cain and all that. Weren't sure what to make of it. Remember way back in the day when we discussed how you can pull random Bible quotes out of context and have them seem significant? That kind of thing.

Not sure what to make of "creation," though. Hadn't really thought of how that might apply. Creating the Temple? Origin myths? Origin of the Masons? It's not that we lack for ideas, it's that we lack parameters for narrowing this stuff down to find something that seems plausible, let alone relevant.

-Mort


And Spearmint got tweaked by Jade, but good.

Quote:
#
Spearmint
Comment by Spearmint | 2008/02/13 at 21:24:57

Jade Macalla,

I don't pretend to understand your game, but I can assure you it will not work. Whatever trick you are trying to pull will not keep us from what we know the be the TRUTH. WE WILL NOT LEAVE LEAVE THIS WORLD TO BE RULED BY SUPERSTITION AND AND MYTH AND THOSE WHO SPEW FAIRY STORIES IN THE FACE OF REASON AND FACT. BE VERY CAREFUL WHERE YOU GO.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:21 pm
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