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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[Question][Spec] Why was everyone caught off guard?
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TBILL
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Joined: 15 Oct 2007
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TheAirman wrote:
Not sure about Marine and Naval Aviators, but in the AF, we have some pretty big conventional munitions that have some really...REALLY serious blast radius. But, however, there is the issue of using them even though this is a lose-lose situation. You can't possibly consider using them on a target, no matter the size, even though the target is destroying your second most important city.


Well we do know from the second trailer that they use jets/bombs on the sucker. And I agree that it would be highly rare for the military to detect a large object in the water and just start blasting the crap out of it.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:07 am
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Katw0man
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suckaH wrote:

Quote:
We don't know this thing is BLOOP. Someone speculated it's bloop and sent that to slusho, which was posted on its happy talk page. I for one don't think it has anything to do with bloop.


I'm gonna go be an argumentative little hooker and say, do you have any proof it doesn't have anything to do with "bloop"? I'm sorry, but I think that a movie possibly featuring a monster bigger than the largest animal on Earth is just too cool of a thing to pass up--sorry, I'm a woman that loves destruction and mayhem. Twisted Evil Out of curiousity, did anyone on the UF boards mention that they sent "BLOOP!" to Happy Talk? I realize it was a long time ago, but as I was a filthy lurker at the time, I've always wondered... just asking.

TheAirman wrote:
Quote:
Not sure about Marine and Naval Aviators, but in the AF, we have some pretty big conventional munitions that have some really...REALLY serious blast radius.


I'm gonna say, for lack of a better phrase--"That's hot."

Quote:
But, however, there is the issue of using them even though this is a lose-lose situation. You can't possibly consider using them on a target, no matter the size, even though the target is destroying your second most important city.

The Army probably exhausted everything they could use. Helicopters can't exactly carry huge Air-to-Ground misslies.


Very interesting military input you have dere. It's good to examine the whole thing from a soldier's POV as far as the realism department is concerned.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:30 am
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TheAirman
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Katw0man wrote:


Very interesting military input you have dere. It's good to examine the whole thing from a soldier's POV as far as the realism department is concerned.


Not Soldier, Airman. ^_^

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:07 am
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I'M HUGE!
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Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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TheAirman wrote:
Katw0man wrote:


Very interesting military input you have dere. It's good to examine the whole thing from a soldier's POV as far as the realism department is concerned.


Not Soldier, Airman. ^_^

Oh, so you're an airman? Thought you were a magician, it says so on your name. Laughing
_________________
Your retarted.

An anagram for JJ Abrams is Cloverfield. Shocked


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:09 am
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Katw0man
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The Airman wrote:

Quote:
Not Soldier, Airman. ^_^


You know what I meant. Crying or Very sad

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:16 am
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SuperSquirrel
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there are other posts which show which national guard and AF units are closest to the NY area to respond to this crisis. I apologise as I cannot remember right off which boards showed these areas. I know Eucher?sp? was one of the posters

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:23 am
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Bacon Army
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suckaH wrote:
If the military has radar of something approaching the city whose size and shape appears to be a whale-like creature, they're not going to shoot at it with missiles, are you kidding me?
They see an obviously-organic creature, they automatically assume it's a deep sea creature and not any sort of threat. They aren't thinking "omg that could be cthuhlu ready to dominate our faces, shoot at it immediately."


A blue whale is 33.5m long. The Arctic giant jellyfish, apparently the largest sea creature in the world, can grow up to 35m. The Statue of Liberty is 93m tall.

Yep, absolutely sure the thing that knocks off the head of Lady Liberty looks just like a blue whale on radar. Wink

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:56 am
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m0r1arty
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Maybe it's 3 whales in a trenchcoat!?!?

-m0r

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:48 am
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Super King
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I came across a PDF file while searching google that I think might help put perspective on our radar queries.

http://www.nopp.org/nopp/project-reports/reports/05depros.pdf

On page 2, you can see what two humpback whales look like on radar imagery. So if we extrapolate this to a blue whale, it would look exponentially larger.

Bacon Army wrote:
A blue whale is 33.5m long. The Arctic giant jellyfish, apparently the largest sea creature in the world, can grow up to 35m. The Statue of Liberty is 93m tall.


Now if my time in the Air Force taught me anything about radars, if we apply the theory that our monster is even bigger than the SoL, and a blue whale is what most people would think appears the largest on radar, then the monster would look THAT much bigger to whoever was monitering that radar screen. Unless they were on a coffee break, then that ginormous echo return would throw up a parade of red flags.

Perhaps that's why military response was so quick, because someone saw that and WTF'ed.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:09 am
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suckaH
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Katw0man wrote:
suckaH wrote:

Quote:
We don't know this thing is BLOOP. Someone speculated it's bloop and sent that to slusho, which was posted on its happy talk page. I for one don't think it has anything to do with bloop.


I'm gonna go be an argumentative little hooker and say, do you have any proof it doesn't have anything to do with "bloop"? I'm sorry, but I think that a movie possibly featuring a monster bigger than the largest animal on Earth is just too cool of a thing to pass up--sorry, I'm a woman that loves destruction and mayhem. Twisted Evil Out of curiousity, did anyone on the UF boards mention that they sent "BLOOP!" to Happy Talk? I realize it was a long time ago, but as I was a filthy lurker at the time, I've always wondered... just asking.

Exactly, we don't know. This entire thread is speculation, so we cannot say that it is or isn't bloop. I was merely giving my two cents. Which, in the grand scheme of things, are worth about as much as a dust ball in a hurricane.
Bacon Army wrote:
suckaH wrote:
If the military has radar of something approaching the city whose size and shape appears to be a whale-like creature, they're not going to shoot at it with missiles, are you kidding me?
They see an obviously-organic creature, they automatically assume it's a deep sea creature and not any sort of threat. They aren't thinking "omg that could be cthuhlu ready to dominate our faces, shoot at it immediately."


A blue whale is 33.5m long. The Arctic giant jellyfish, apparently the largest sea creature in the world, can grow up to 35m. The Statue of Liberty is 93m tall.

Yep, absolutely sure the thing that knocks off the head of Lady Liberty looks just like a blue whale on radar. Wink

Like i said, i'm guessing the navy would probably double and triple check their radar before blasting the shit out of the thing. Does no one agree with this? Even in new york i would hope that they wouldn't have a shoot first ask questions later to something that is obviously organic. But it is a post-9/11 world, who knows.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:43 am
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Mystlyfe
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The poster certainly seems to suggest the monster moves at extreme speeds, as it has managed to tear a chunk deep enough into the city that you cannot no longer see it before its wake disappears from the water. Shocked
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Godkin/Cloverfieldposter.jpg?t=1196647484


On a more serious note, given the content of the teaser, its highly unlikely the monster approached in a very "traditional" fashion. The party is interrupted by an "earthquake" with a simultaneous roaring/moaning/animal noise. The news report is speaking of this earthquake as well as the noise, but no mention of any sightings of any creature or anything else coming from the water (something of this magnitude would, hopefully at least, be mentioned on the breaking news as well), or elsewhere. When the party-goers reach the roof (presumably shortly after they're watching the news report), there is another roaring sound, this time accompanied by a massive explosion in the heart of Manhattan. While there certainly appears to be no military explanation of this explosion, it does not entirely rule out the chance that the explosion was caused by the military (or man in general) in response to the appearance of grumpypants.
The easiest conclusion that I can gather from extrapolating this data is that the monster appeared very rapidly, most likely from underground. Once again the news mentioned no sightings of anything approaching from the coast or from the air, making it seem likely the monster more or less "appeared" after the earthquake. The earthquake could easily have been caused by the monster (starting) breaking through the ground of New York. A massive tremor is sent out that temporarily derails power, although not violent enough to take it out permanently (although back-ups generators can be responsible for power being regained), as not only does the party regain power, but all the lights are on in the skyscrapers when the explosion occurs. Within what I assume is a matter of minutes either the monster itself, or the [military] response to the monster triggered some form of massive explosion within Manhattan.
There are, of course, some faults in my theory. If a giant monster broke through the ground of NYC, it would be likely that would be reported, at least in some rumor form, by the NY1 news. My best explanation for this is that the initial earthquake was only either the monsters first attempt to surface, or the beginning of a longer sustained effort, as it obviously didn't carry enough force to cause long-lasting blackouts around the city.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:37 am
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m_talon
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Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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Short answer: It takes a little bit to mobilize military. You have to get the soldiers equipped, load them up, and get to the destination. Same with pilots and planes, unless they just happened to be flying by.

My guess is the Navy/Coast Guard saw something moving at a good clip towards NYC, but they couldn't stop it. Even if they depth-charged it, it probably kept coming. They could have notified the National Guard, but they may not have realized it was amphibious. By the time it pops up and starts rampaging across Manhattan, the damage is done.

Nobody in the news would have known exactly what was going on unless they were RIGHT THERE when it comes ashore. Given the power of this critter, anyone present was probably toast. Then, by the time the news does get wind, we're already past the explosion/SOL head tossing. None of our cast is near a TV anymore.

Super short answer: We're looking at mere minutes passing between landfall and explosion. No way anyone would have known what was coming and could prepare for it, nor would the news be able to cover it before the party heads out into the streets.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:07 pm
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11808fan
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I like the ideas so far -

Grumpypants "floats" up to the shore, a big mound of green whale-looking flesh that's 5 (10) times the size of a blue whale. This would back up the "it's alive" line we all like so much. He then "wakes" up and starts his mayhem.

Or (and I like this one better), he's cooking towards the coast, and even if the Guard saw him on radar (and how would you not), there just isn't a whole hell of a lot of time to react before he's on top of Manhattan tearing up the place.

Threw the SOL head at something, like a helicopter... very plausible. And scary, as it would suggest intelligence to use tools as well as the ability to grasp - anyone else thinking opposable thumb?

Lastly, I feel that grumpypants is looking for something/someone. Even the dumbest animal, regardless of how tough it is, would try to evade being hurt. If he's (it's) getting shot at, wouldn't it go back to the water so as to avoid more injury? The answer is yes - unless it's still looking for something it wants. No?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:47 pm
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john locke
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Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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Location: Damned if we know!

Ahem Catwoman, you said
"I'm gonna go be an argumentative little hooker and say, do you have any proof it doesn't have anything to do with "bloop"? I'm sorry, but I think that a movie possibly featuring a monster bigger than the largest animal on Earth is just too cool of a thing to pass up--sorry, I'm a woman that loves destruction and mayhem. Out of curiousity, did anyone on the UF boards mention that they sent "BLOOP!" to Happy Talk? I realize it was a long time ago, but as I was a filthy lurker at the time, I've always wondered... just asking."


THATS HOT!!! Very Happy Wink

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:21 pm
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Mystlyfe
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m_talon wrote:
Nobody in the news would have known exactly what was going on unless they were RIGHT THERE when it comes ashore. Given the power of this critter, anyone present was probably toast. Then, by the time the news does get wind, we're already past the explosion/SOL head tossing. None of our cast is near a TV anymore.

Super short answer: We're looking at mere minutes passing between landfall and explosion. No way anyone would have known what was coming and could prepare for it, nor would the news be able to cover it before the party heads out into the streets.


In situations like this, the news team will often report "tips" they received from viewers who called in. The news anchor even says in the teaser "phone calls are pouring into the New York 1 newsroom as a thunderous roaring sound...". *
If there was enough time for people to call in about the thunderous roar before going on air, there was certainly enough time for people to call in about a massive monster smashing onshore. And in an area with 66,490 people per sq. mile ** , it's highly unlikely nobody would see this monster. Especially considering it's highly likely he would be visible even to people across the river from where he's going on shore.

Beyond that, there is little evidence that directly supports grumpypant's attack originating from the shoreline. The first physical damage seen is the massive explosion in the heart of Manhattan. The SoL head flying across the city isn't until later (as the party-goers have obviously left the party by the time the head comes sailing across the city) * . Only the theories of a sea-based origin for the monster, the decapitated SoL * , and the poster *** showing a path of destruction coming in from the coast suggest that he approached from the water. And none of those factors mean that's where the attack originated.

* http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/cloverfield/large_2.html
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan
*** http://blowingsmokethemovie.com/cloverfieldposter1.jpg


PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:41 pm
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