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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[SPEC] Military Response To Clover/GrumpyPant's Appearance
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Euchre
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Slusho Addict wrote:
Where does the belief that there is an unbelievebly rapid military response come from? All I can see is a picture of a soldier on the 1-18-08 site, but I don't know what we can read from that.

There's the big attack in the trailer, shown as being on Broadway right across from the apartment building they emerge from and across from the bodega they hide in (as now clarified by the sneak preview clip. The info gathered from the 1-18-08.com pics is the timestamps that place the appearance of Grumpypants and the military about an hour apart.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:09 am
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Slusho Addict
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Euchre wrote:
Slusho Addict wrote:
Where does the belief that there is an unbelievebly rapid military response come from? All I can see is a picture of a soldier on the 1-18-08 site, but I don't know what we can read from that.

There's the big attack in the trailer, shown as being on Broadway right across from the apartment building they emerge from and across from the bodega they hide in (as now clarified by the sneak preview clip. The info gathered from the 1-18-08.com pics is the timestamps that place the appearance of Grumpypants and the military about an hour apart.


I'm sure they'd have someone on the ground within an hour of an explosion like that, but the guy in the photo just seems to be standing around, not mounting an assault on grumpypants.
I haven't seen any Dunkin Donuts signs on that street, so I'm not sure it's same place, I'd imagine they reused some sets in the movie for different areas anyway, as the bodega street doesn't match real Broadway in the first place.

The only shot which looks the same to me is the monster shot, and as I said, we know that was edited in to look like it was part of the military attack. Watching it again, the cars don't match, the buildings don't match, and there's no giant head in the middle of the road Smile

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:15 am
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blaaaaaah
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TheAirman wrote:
There are no comparisons between 9/11 and GP that make any sense, really.

Militaries are only prepared to respond to human threats, not monsters knocking down buildings. In the case of 9/11, it was a matter of how many lives were worth stopping terrorists.

While on 9/11, there was an identified threat, no one quite knows what is in NYC during this movie. Note the shock of these people at the party. Imagine how military Colonels and Generals would react? Something along the lines of...

"o yea rite a gient monstar in new yawk lol fuk ur emergency i'm goin 2 sleep lol"



You can make definite connections between 9/11 and the monster. Look at it this way: IF (and this is a big if) the government DID know about grumps ahead of time, it'd be VERY similar to the intel that our modern day government got involving the 9/11 terror plot weeks and months before 9/11. They KNEW there would be attacks on america. But they really...did nothing about it.

I could see the government knowing about grumps and not taking immediate action before he becomes an immediate threat.

OF COURSE, if the government/military never even knew about Grumpypants beforehand, then the point is "mute" (as Lasher would say).

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:13 pm
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gypsy songman
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Nighthawk wrote:
What bothered me about the trailer is that Hud is the one filming... Does the military frequently let amateur photographers just stand around while they fire several hundred tons of live munitions less than 50 yards away? Shouldn't they have dragged his ass out of the way?


You think with a giant monster around, they're going to bother to shoo off the yahoo with a camera? If the nutjob wants to get himself stepped on, shot, or exploded, who are they to argue with him? They've got a job to do. Smile

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:35 pm
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Nighthawk
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 		Yeah, but I don't expect them to open with heavy rocket fire while parked on Broadway, either...

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:08 pm
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JadedMax
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 		I dunno. I'm thinking just from the second trailer. Where we're told "seven hours ago" there is a massive time swing from party to the time Rob makes that tape.

So I wouldn't place too much stock in any timeline given so far. But I suspect the military came along probably halfway through it. The initial chaos and running and carnage probably kept Hud and Rob from doing many real-time updates on the tape until then Then the feds show up, and probably buys them a lot of time. Most the footage we get to see.

I suspect some grand military decision was made regarding the city. To go full tilt offense on the creature and risk it all probably leading to the "people are gonna wanna see how it all went down"

So yeah I believe the monster dies. But New York and our cast probably goes with it.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:43 pm
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DougBThree
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 		Assuming the monster is not substantially affected by small arms fire, it would seem that a successful missile strike or two would be sufficient to take it out. If it's an animal made of flesh and bones, then what more would be needed to kill it? I can't believe a decision would be made to unleash even tactical nukes in a major US city to kill one creature, no matter how large.

This could be complicated, though, by a couple of things. If the monster is particularly elusive, or good at hiding itself, then the military would run the risk of massive collateral damage on the city if it had to dash around firing missiles at quick glimpses of the beast. The clip almost suggests it can plow through buildings at a pretty good pace, so it might be like trying to hunt a rabbit running through tall grass. Between the damage caused by the monster and the damage caused by multiple near-miss missile strikes, NYC could get seriously trashed.

The other possibility relates to the small monsters theory. If NYC became quickly overrun, tribble-style, with small, deadly, possibly infection-spreading little monsters, then a more drastic, "lose the city, save the country" defense might be mounted. Seeing the panicked effort to determine a response to this type of threat would make an interesting movie all in itself.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:04 pm
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11808fan
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 		Just had a thought about this when reading Euchre's post earlier in the thread:

I don't think Grumpypants can swim so fast as to get to shore faster than radio waves or even a relatively slow satellite relay. Even an email would be faster, or Grumpypants isn't just going to make a good wake between Chuai and NYC, more like a tsunami. The station is bare minimum of 2 days going in a straight line from station to shore, and even if Grumpypants was 10 times faster that's still over 4 hours of swim time. That kind of movement in water would be insanely fast, and would definitely generate pressure waves like a tsunami.

Perhaps the "capsized" tanker was caused by MGP breaching the surface and creating a large wave - not coming "out" of the tanker...

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:29 pm
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Slusho Addict
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gypsy songman wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
What bothered me about the trailer is that Hud is the one filming... Does the military frequently let amateur photographers just stand around while they fire several hundred tons of live munitions less than 50 yards away? Shouldn't they have dragged his ass out of the way?


You think with a giant monster around, they're going to bother to shoo off the yahoo with a camera? If the nutjob wants to get himself stepped on, shot, or exploded, who are they to argue with him? They've got a job to do. Smile


Hud seems to be trying to get the hell out of the way in that scene anyway, but I don't know how he found himself stuck between the army and grumpypants


JadedMax wrote:

I suspect some grand military decision was made regarding the city. To go full tilt offense on the creature and risk it all probably leading to the "people are gonna wanna see how it all went down"

So yeah I believe the monster dies. But New York and our cast probably goes with it.


I don't know, they're dropping bombs at the monster (presumably) at night, and the monster is still attacking at dawn (presumably), so it's hard to tell. I'd like to think that the monster survives, as that's pretty unusual for an American monster movie.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:31 pm
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fleabit
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 		The military can react very quickly if need be. If they showed up 3, 4 hours after the attack, they could pretty much bring anything to bear in their arsenol. When I was in the Army, I was part of a Quick Reaction Force (QRF). From being alerted at 2 or 3 in the morning, to full dress including camo, locked and loaded and into vehicles: 15 mins tops. The response time of the military doesn't surprise me at all. Nor the "availability" of the weapons on hand.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:56 pm
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Random_kid
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 		Do you really think they would drop a bomb on NYC?
HELL NO!
besides we see everyone getting "out" in the morning on a heli
(i say "out" because it ends up crashing because of MGP i assume)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:20 pm
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m_talon
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 		If the timeline in the pictures is accurate, there's about 50 minutes between the two girls picture and the first soldier picture. He may just be one of the first on the scene, trying to get people out of the way before the armor arrives.

Since the new footage shows the monster appearance we thought was part of the military fight was actually its FIRST appearance, the military response can be delayed by hours and doesn't take place on the street we started on. Besides, in the military barrage, there's no SOL head behind them Wink So, it's safe to say that the armor and heavy weapons did take some time to get there

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:27 pm
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Weyland Yutani
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 		The ending will be ambiguous and ideally leave a lot of speculation as to just what happened to Mr. GP. If there is anything that We believe the filmmakers would pull from 9/11, it would be the hindsight theories and specualtion. If they can do this in a smart way, they will have achieved greatness and will undoubtedly leave the rest of the world in a state of paranoia regarding our uncertainty in world shared with a giant, building eating monster.

The question remains, what will be the conspiracy?

WY

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:52 pm
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JimiJons
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Slusho Addict wrote:
Euchre wrote:
Slusho Addict wrote:
Where does the belief that there is an unbelievebly rapid military response come from? All I can see is a picture of a soldier on the 1-18-08 site, but I don't know what we can read from that.

There's the big attack in the trailer, shown as being on Broadway right across from the apartment building they emerge from and across from the bodega they hide in (as now clarified by the sneak preview clip. The info gathered from the 1-18-08.com pics is the timestamps that place the appearance of Grumpypants and the military about an hour apart.


I'm sure they'd have someone on the ground within an hour of an explosion like that, but the guy in the photo just seems to be standing around, not mounting an assault on grumpypants.
I haven't seen any Dunkin Donuts signs on that street, so I'm not sure it's same place, I'd imagine they reused some sets in the movie for different areas anyway, as the bodega street doesn't match real Broadway in the first place.

The only shot which looks the same to me is the monster shot, and as I said, we know that was edited in to look like it was part of the military attack. Watching it again, the cars don't match, the buildings don't match, and there's no giant head in the middle of the road Smile


The trailer shows MBTs and armoured assault vehicles deployed within the city, attacking the monster. I'd assume the tanks arrive at the same time as the infantry. This means that a fairly large force was deployed with urgent and immediate pace. A QRF doesn't respond with tanks and APCs that fast. Someone else in the tanker post stated that there were no immediate military bases within a 1 hour vicinity of NY (or something along the lines of that). And even if they could react that fast, news on the threat wasn't exactly very specific. The news choppers circling the tanker were most likely destroyed when MGP popped out to kill ships. All anyone really knew was that there was an explosion, and possibly an Earthquake. A couple minutes later, the SOL is missing it's head, and buildings start to collapse. Such a heavy force of military units wouldn't be brought in to counter an explosion, or provide support for disaster victims (Earthquake). Tanks are brought in to combat active mobile threats, not provide martial law. Anti-terrorism efforts are easily covered by NYC's police force. There obviously was some other explanation for such an immediate response.

And no one can predict how the military would react to a certain situation. Just because the detection is an underwater naval threat doesn't mean that the U.S. military won't deploy ground forces. Who knows what the reasons are. It might be extra security. They might suspect the underwater object to be an infantry insertion device. Whatever it is, it is a military threat, and all precautions must be taken to counter any possible unexpected occurrences.

Hell, I could be completely wrong, and the military really did respond as fast as it apparently did. I tend to think, however, that one hour is not enough time to mobilize an appropriate response force to counter a problem that isn't even clear. Maybe a cover-up really was the intention of the military, and the infantry were crowd-control for a panicked city. That would explain the presence of fighter aircraft to kill MGP.

And the conspiracy? That's up to JJ Abrams.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:35 pm
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LaNcEleCtriKuTion
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Location: NYC, Queens

 		Ok, I'm back. Any how, here's what I think:

Quote:
This could be complicated, though, by a couple of things. If the monster is particularly elusive, or good at hiding itself, then the military would run the risk of massive collateral damage on the city if it had to dash around firing missiles at quick glimpses of the beast. The clip almost suggests it can plow through buildings at a pretty good pace, so it might be like trying to hunt a rabbit running through tall grass.


It's more like an ant firing missiles at a rabbit in tall grass. Smile

The "Provoked GP" theory seems usable, since GP could be chillin' in the East River when some cop boat spots it and in fear opens fire. Something quick like that won't be posted on the news if the boat was destroyed immediatly, and a smaller chance of reaching the party. GP got pissed as reinforcements saw something and also opened fire. Thinking there might be a whole swarm, GP trudges out into Battery Park at Lower Manhattan.

Someone said that the govenment would cover it up as much as possible.
Living in New York, I watch NY1 every week and they have a close-knit relationship with CNN, and that's international. Some info about the SoL head missing and ending up on the streets HAD to at least reach the crew at CNN. CNN would broadcast a "OMG BREAKING NEWS POSSIBLE TERRORIST ATTACK ON SOL" to local stations all over the nation, and then THEY would still have the news out even if the US tries to stop it. (Rob says 7 hours ago. That means it should be 7 o'clock in the morning, and at least people in LA at the west heard the news of a giant explosion.)

End.

P.S. Ppl ask why it's still dark at 7 in the morning. This is in JaNuArY, when the sun comes up around 7:45 - 8:15 am on the longest nights.

P.S.S. JimJions, that other person at the tanker post was me, the maker of this thread. Smile

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:41 pm
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