unforum

[MrToasty]

[Giant Robot]

[thebruce]

ooo I like the Cameron idea!

If you recall, the problem was the initial dvelopment of the AI. We know in the future that the Resistance is able to re-program terminators and send them back in time. Is there any reason they could not do the same with a complex AI? If they've come to understand the complexity of the Skynet AI, perhaps they don't have the resources to build an opponent AI, so they're sending back information we can use to create this AI.

So I guess I can foresee to possibilities, on the good side
1) they've adapted an AI from the future and sent us the info so that we help produce the software that replaces Skynet's when they send us back Cameron to protect Jon.
2) they've adapted an AI from the future and sent us the info so we can research it and direct its development to become an equal (or greater) opposite opponent programmed to destroy Skynet at some point (if the war is unavoidable, then it could become a virtual 'friend' to the resistance in the future during the war).

*shivers*

On the bad side... we know now that there is a second Terminator who killed Mike, attempted to stop Anna, and could potentially kill Jacob. It seems he also gave Zoltan the NY camera. How do we take that? Worst case - we may be developing a bad AI to help Skynet locate/kill Jon, today, or in the future.

*shivers again*


Ok, I've populated a puzzle page for the BlueCom neural network interface.
http://terminator.wikibruce.com/Puzzle/BlueCom

We need to figure out the precise 6 input strings to produce a result -- and order matters.

[GodPidgeon]

I don't think that this is nearly complex enough to be any sort of AI. Also, the terminator brains are already advanced, learning, nueral net processors. In fact, the original skynet was a crude copy of a terminator brain. If the resistance needed an AI to help against skynet, terminator brains with the learning ability switched on, like in T2, would be the most help. It looks to me like this is a complex method of helping us solve another (a final?) cypher that the resistance has planned. Perhaps this whole exercise is to help weed out potential, future resistance members. Maybe thats why a terminator is involved too...they also want future resistance members identified...

[thebruce]

Except the terminators are still programmed with goals and actions. The Terminators can't do everything, and they are physical beings. Skynet is a non-physical, growing virtual neural network. The Terminators are limited physical beings.

Who knows. And back to the mantra: We'll find out eventually

[bryanflurry]

I like the "good AI" idea, from the episodes:

[MrToasty]

bruce - do you have a feel of the possibility for others gaining access to BlueCom? Would you think they'd give access to others amongst us for sending in tetrahedron images, or was that a one-time shot?

Also, since the last coordinate Mike gave us was in DDMMSS, maybe try converting the other coords to that as well?

[thebruce]

I can try the lat/long format, but there's more characters there that can open the door for variants, and who knows which variant is right.

As for getting a login, I guess the best way to find out is to email DT with a picture of the 3D pyramid you built from a printout of the diagram (of course, build one if you haven't already )

[ANTIcarot]

[resistor]

Yes, I see what you're saying, but before we start chopping heads here, "Unknown Cyborg" might mean:

1. Unknown as in, hey, I don't know who this particular cyborg is. I don't know her mission or reason for being here. Never seen this particular one before.

or, it could mean

2. Unknown, as in, I'm not able to figure out her model, but I know that she must be a cyborg due to her strength, fighting style, etc.

I myself don't see how what we have could be Cameron's neural net, etc, but it could be the spark needed to get the minds of others' going in the direction that will lead to Cameron's creation/ the creation of her type. We can't completely rule that out.

I think the chances are better that this is another message of some sort , but since we don't know one way or the other yet, we should keep our minds open.

[GodPidgeon]

Um, if it were necessary for them to jump start us into creating Cameron's type...wouldn't it be just as easy for them to just give us her plans? Either situation is a paradox, but one is far more effective than the other. I don't think that this is her. Like I said before, more likely its just a complex cypher mechanism.

[HopeOfTheFuture]

[MrToasty]

New blog post:
http://enitechlabs.com/blog/?p=104
The world's first time machine? - just a repost of this article:
LINK

[thebruce]

yup HopeOfTheFuture, that question's been raised and mentioned a few times

re: BlueCom
Khar in IRC suggested I try without any characters other than numbers, so "37.947057,-122.570434" would be entered as "37947057122570434".
Still no luck.


Ok, so in bout of meta-frustration, I decided to take a peek at the flash code for the 'neural network'. Now aside from 1 thing that takes away from the 'reality' of the thing, there's an easy way to suspend disbelief.

From my best estimate of the complex code, the algorithm takes the sum of ascii character codes for each entry string, and uses that resulting value as a seed for a random number (as the random function requires a seed, each time you run the code, the same seed will return the same random number, so the results will always be the same for the same entry fields, no worries about that) - it uses this seed to determine a number of nodes per diagram 'slice', and a random 'angle' from the slice position to place the node; then it draws lines sequentially from node to node, and from each node to the center of the pie. All this means is that it's not possible to back-calculate how the nodes are placed to find out what the result it from the image Mike posted on the blog.
Now, to help suspend disbelief, we need to think that the neural network doesn't make 'random' choices, so the easy answer: the 'random' function is actually the complex neural network calculation - it takes the input value, does stuff to it, then the flash makes use of that resulting value to draw the diagram.

Anyway, next up - the central character is just the character representation of that resulting value. Really it means nothing.

When we get the right 6 input fields, there will be effectively a non-sensical diagram with a meaningless character. The point I see to this is that on entering the correct input values, we'll effectively have a 'key' to unlock something else, that something will happen - the diagram that was posted with Mike's notes would then be this key.

So the point to BlueCom? Discover the six input value, find out what happens when they're entered.

The flash doesn't include the 6 answers in the code - it sends the strings to a PHP function on the site, which checks them and returns basically a true/false value to the flash.

So based on my viewing of the flash source, there's no way to find or decode or reverse-engineer the correct six input values. It can only be a matter of trial and error until the right answers are found.

* note: based on how it handles input strings - summing the ascii value of each character to use as a seed - the order of characters within each input string does not matter. Only the order of the six input strings do. So I could enter "10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60" and receive a different diagram than "10, 40, 20, 50, 30, 60", but would receive the same diagram if entering "01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06"

Oh and just to avoid confusion, input is on 6 separate lines, not comma delimited (see attached)

[Kharr]

Interesting Bruce, though it's a bit of a pain that the order of the input strings entered matters. If the order isn't the order of discovery of the GPS coordinates, then we have 6! = 720 permutations for the sequence.

Anyway, regardless of that (grasping at straws now I know) but looking at Mike's notes the GPS coordinates are laid out rather like sums.

Perhaps we could use the GPS coordinates to generate numbers like this:
37.947057-122.570434= -84.623377

And so on...?