unforum

[jlr1001]

Crossing-Over = A Player "Death"?

[vpisteve]

My general answer is, unfortunately, not enough time to really play something.

I've often lamented the fact that if I were in any other genre, it wouldn't be quite as hard to enjoy other folk's fine work. Directors, actors, producers, etc. can easily go see other movies, tv shows. Authors can sometimes actually find time to read (or so I'm told).

But playing an ARG? No way, man. Too much time commitment.

But, that's not necessarily a bad thing, if we use that feeling to our advantage in what we design, i.e. striving to create a satisfying experience for both the casual player/lurker as well as the hardcore, committed ARGfiend (did I say fiend? I meant that in the nicest way).

But not for lack of trying. I've tried to follow the Lost Experience, Heroes, Sammees, Sarah Connor.....all with pretty limited success.

But this lack of playing didn't really happen with my current job. It began to be a problem back when unfiction/argn started up.

[SirQuady]

For me as a vaguely beginner PM (helped with TORgame, am working on another project or two currently), I find that, like vpisteve references:

[Will 2.0]

Well the thing is while creating these projects, especially if you started the idea, managing people, finding people, handling storyline, puzzles etc is a LOT of time consumption.

That said, I do have time to play other games but rarely so. I usually end up being there at the start and fizzling out just because I have to keep my concentration on my own baby. Right now I'm interested in 48 Hours and The Human Pet since quite honestly nothing in N&R looks particularly interesting to me right now besides Findings Cedar Rapids that I lurk.

Hope that answered your question. Of course it varies with different people and games, your game could be like a 2 week game, very simple. Depends I guess.

[imbri]

Like the others have mentioned, I just don't have the time to get as involved as I would like to with some games.

I do disagree with Sir Quady's hypothesis that Grassroots PMs have an easier time of it - as a Grassroots PM, I was just as dedicated to my game and the craft of PMing as I am now that I'm on the paid to do this stuff side. However, now it is my job and I don't have another job that I have to focus on in addition to my Grassroots game. I put in a fulltime work week (and then some) on both Lockjaw and Metacortechs in addition to having to earn money to keep a roof over my head. Grassroots != Less Commitment or Less Time (in fact, because it is a passion and a hobby, I would argue that some grassroots pms put in more time and have a greater commitment)

One of the reasons that I love doing the Netcast is that it forces me to take some time to look into some of the games that are going on. I really do love seeing what other teams are doing - for both professional and playing purposes. I do like to find myself sinking into a rabbit hole and struggling not to fall too deeply (for fear that I'll be lost for hours and get nothing done for work) and I also like to see what PMs are doing and how players are reacting to it (especially if it's a new or unique idea). But, as I I mentioned on the last netcast, I just can't keep up with things and so I know I miss so much.

[SirQuady]

[krystyn]

Projects can be concurrent, too.

I generally don't have time anymore to play other ARGs, it's true. I did like Chain Factor a lot because I didn't have to get obsessed with it, and it had a nice, addictive web game I could play when I had a few minutes here and there.

I don't think there's a clear delineation of commitment and time spent that can be made between grassroots/professional. A game is what it is.

[C_Brennan]

Although I haven't PMed for... wow... 3 years now, apparently... I doubt I could ever really get serious with a game. I keep my head into the genre to stay afloat of the news and game changes... but not enough to really get my hands dirty like I did before. That makes me sad.

But... there's more important things to do as a grassroots PM, like do my homework for college so I get a bachelors so I can go to grad school and spend my time researching this.

Even my PMing has gone on the wayside. (Obviously, heh.) But, I always keep ideas in my head. Keep writing them down... never know when they're gonna be useful.

[SirQuady]

[jlr1001]

Wow! Turn my back for a few days on a post, and look what happens. I had given up on this one, so was pleasantly surprised to see responses.

I guess, at the heart of my question is the assumption that to be a creator of an art form you have to first be a consumer.

From what I gather from the responses, for many of you, once you cross the curtain you almost lose your player side.

Are there any downsides to this transaction?



-jlr1001

[imbri]

There is something to remember here...

The people behind the game, the puppetmasters in particular, interact with the audience in a way that is truly unique to ARGs. There is a relationship that unfolds over the course of the run and, in many ways, puppetmasters are playing along with the players.

Sean Stewart likens it to a tango, with puppetmasters taking the lead. I think it's an appropriate analogy. While you can admire another dancer's grace and moves, you don't have to dance with them to appreciate it. It helps, sure, but when you get that close it can be difficult to appreciate the beauty of the form.

[Jas0n]

I've thoroughly enjoyed my voyage to the other side of the curtain. Like imbri said, it's a unique experience and though it's a lot of work it certainly is enjoyable. I don't get many opportunities to play, but I do lurk around and watch some games unfold. It's interesting to see the various ways other developers unfold their games to the players. The last game I really played though was Monster Hunter Club, and I've watched a bit of the EE stuff, but haven't had a chance to interact.

My biggest thing is the fact that there just isn't an ARG audience anywhere near me so there's never going to be any live events I can comfortably attend, so that stuff aside - I enjoy looking at the back of the curtain. There's nothing more exciting and rewarding than watching how players react to various situations.

[GodPidgeon]

As someone that GMs some fairly long running RPG games, the job of PM is very intriguing. I know there are companies that run these viral marketing things, but how hard is it to get a job as a PM? And what kind of qualifications do you need?

[SirQuady]

I think most players who become PMs (with a number of DAMN LUCKY exceptions) do so by creating a grassroots game (at least at first), not by getting a job at a company that does so.

That said, If you can get into a job, that's awesome. Good luck!

I'll leave it to someone else to discuss qualifications and possibilites.
If you need me i'll be over in the corner stewing in my jealousy

[MageSteff]

After being a PM for Orbital Colony I did lurk/play in a few games. But like others real life sometimes has other plans for us. Last year my mother passed away and I haven't been very interested in doing much of anything this past year.