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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Silver Ladder
Four of Diamonds: Fav Candidates, Questions, etc.
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two-eyes-and-a-nose
Boot


Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: northern CA

Four of Diamonds: Fav Candidates, Questions, etc.
The Caucus, opinions, and ideas for questions

Greetings all,

Hopefully, I am doing this somewhat correctly, but I would like to discuss and hear all of your opinions of the potential candidates for the Four of Diamonds.

I'm not sure if I should just jump in and discuss away or wait a bit here, though I do have definite opinions of my own already. Worth mentioning is the stated deadline for voting: 11:11pm CST, January 11th. Also, of course, the specific description of how votes must be submitted is important, but I'll leave that to you to review for now.

Info is here:
http://silverladder.com/diamonds/4d/explain.htm

I think I will wait for at least one response before I go on, maybe just because I'm new. And finally, I hope no one considers any of this spoilerific.

BTW, so far I'm leaning very heavily towards the mouse.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:22 am
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anonymousloli
Unfettered


Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 475
Location: Michigan

Duck. Duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck.

I want more challenge. I want to have to work for what I do. I'm getting kind of bored, and that's not good. I want amusement. I don't want the rigid lines of the lory. I don't want the same old thing from the mouse. And Dodo is so Philip, and I have enough of one Philip in my life.

So, Duck. Give me Korp or give me boredom.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:31 am
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Reckoner
Boot


Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 30

The Mouse is the obvious choice, so I say ... Dodo. Twisted Evil

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:08 am
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two-eyes-and-a-nose
Boot


Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: northern CA

Cadidates and symbolism

Okay, I have decided to compile some information regarding the possible symbolism associated with the candidates. I began by noticing it odd that they had trees specified to them, and dug up some info from there. I think it obvious that I leave the symbolism of their songs to the listener.
-------------------------------
Mouse:
Tree: Maple tree symbolism - Balance, Promise, Practicality - (link)
Number: 9 - Completion - (link)
Season: Fall - various - meanings, from fruitful, mature, harvest-centric to the triumph of dark over light, and metal in the Chinese elemental pantheon.
Color: Green - various: creative intelligence, the heart chakra (Anahata), related to health, nature and the outdoors, and Islam. (link)

Lory:
Tree: Juniper - "Protection, Anti-theft, Love, Exorcism, Health" and "longevity, strength and athleticism, and fertility" - (link) and (link)
Number: 4 - Creation - (link)
Season: Spring - growth, renewal, of new life (both plant and animal) being born, and of the cycle of life once again starting. It is also used more generally as the start of better times, as in Prague Spring." - (link)
Color: Navy Blue - no specific symbolism noted, except maybe water.

Duck:
Color: White = brightness, purity, virtue, and innocence - (link)
Number: 1 - Individual. Aggressor. Yang. - (link)
Season: Winter - death, absence of hope - (link)
Tree: Mahogany - unknown, often used for musical instruments and boats.

Dodo:
Color: Green - various: creative intelligence, the heart chakra (Anahata), related to health, nature and the outdoors, and Islam. (link)
Number: 6 - Reaction/flux, Responsibility - (link)
Season: Summer - adolescence, vibrance, etc - nothing clear, but (link)
Tree: Palm - peace and opportunity - (link)

---------------------------
So, after all of that, I'm not sure how relevant any of it is, but that's for you to decide.

My opinion: In an analogy of real-world politics, I see the Dodo as the 'Far Left', and the Mouse as the 'Mid Left'; both the Lory and the Duck would be 'Right' but I can't decide which is more so. My feeling is the Duck is further, and the Lory Mid-ish, but this is likely my opinion. In a nutshell, the Mouse has a significant lead in my view, primarily in that she (or he) has those things in common with myself that I like, and proposes those things that I would like most to see in myself. I hope this experience defies the customary definition of a game by more than a couple sigma, and while I am interested in the message they are offering us, I appreciate the willingness to be affected. Finally, I'll call it a vote of faith in what I see as the existing vision of the design.

If I were to select someone else though it would be the Lory as I do agree with quite a few of her opinions, I just don't necessarily feel her espoused methods fit the situation quite correctly. For a stand alone artistic type, however, I would agree probably 86 or 87%.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:31 am
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Fusebox
Decorated


Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 155

This isn't my final decision. I feel I still have some assessing to do, but so far, Lory has my support.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:23 am
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Sythys
Veteran


Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 126

Re: Candidates and symbolism

two-eyes-and-a-nose wrote:

-------------------------------
Mouse:
Tree: Maple tree symbolism - Balance, Promise, Practicality - (link)
Number: 9 - Completion - (link)
Season: Fall - various - meanings, from fruitful, mature, harvest-centric to the triumph of dark over light, and metal in the Chinese elemental pantheon.
Color: Green - various: creative intelligence, the heart chakra (Anahata), related to health, nature and the outdoors, and Islam. (link)

Lory:
Tree: Juniper - "Protection, Anti-theft, Love, Exorcism, Health" and "longevity, strength and athleticism, and fertility" - (link) and (link)
Number: 4 - Creation - (link)
Season: Spring - growth, renewal, of new life (both plant and animal) being born, and of the cycle of life once again starting. It is also used more generally as the start of better times, as in Prague Spring." - (link)
Color: Navy Blue - no specific symbolism noted, except maybe water.

Duck:
Color: White = brightness, purity, virtue, and innocence - (link)
Number: 1 - Individual. Aggressor. Yang. - (link)
Season: Winter - death, absence of hope - (link)
Tree: Mahogany - unknown, often used for musical instruments and boats.

Dodo:
Color: Green - various: creative intelligence, the heart chakra (Anahata), related to health, nature and the outdoors, and Islam. (link)
Number: 6 - Reaction/flux, Responsibility - (link)
Season: Summer - adolescence, vibrance, etc - nothing clear, but (link)
Tree: Palm - peace and opportunity - (link)

---------------------------





That's a really good analogy and some great comparisons... but I thought of something else that goes with the whole SL theme.

Lory = Art
Mouse = Love
Duck = Information (though VERY Korp. if you ask me)
Dodo = Chaos

If we go by these comparisons, Lory has the right to be 4D... since the cards represent...

Heart = Love
Clubs = Information
Spades = Chaos
Diamonds = Art (I'm restating this for the newer passengers who may not know this)

Right now, I'm leaning towards mouse... since they're never is enough love in this world. But, my decision won't be final until I cast my vote. And I will way each candidate very heavy before my final decision.
_________________
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:36 am
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Falcos
Boot

Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 13

Dodo said
Quote:
* Q: Do you think the Deck can learn something from the Passengers?
* Oh, for sure. That one guy already put those cool card trick videos up on YouTube. I totally want him to teach me that stuff.


Hey, I think Dodo is trying to butter me up! Dodo's tone seems to be sarcastic. Did anyone else get that vibe? Like he is using reverse psychology? Trying to get us fired up by saying that we don't want the journey to be difficult. That we just want to lay on the floor and let our mom's do our laundry.

I am having a hard time expressing what I am trying to say. But did any of you have a simular response after reading what Dodo had to say?
Quote:
Why think too hard? Why push it beyond that?

Surely this statement is not intented to to taken at face value. Right?

So then, I have to question what subversive point was he trying to make by refferencing my videos? Maybe he was saying that they are fluff and fun and have no thought or substance? I stopped making them because I don't think they fit the tone of SL.

Perhaps I am being too sensative. At first I was delighted that Dodo would mention my videos, but then with the tone of the rest of the writting I started to be concerned that maybe it was not a complement.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Change of topic
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I thought of another analogy. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Mouse would be * Leonardo (Blue) — Leonardo is courageous, decisive, and a devoted student of martial arts. As a strict adherent to Bushido, he has a very strong sense of honor and justice. He wears a blue mask and wields a pair of ninjaken (literally "ninja sword"), although every incarnation identifies his swords as "katana." He is named after Leonardo Da Vinci.

Duck would be * Raphael (Red) — The team's anti-social bad boy, Raphael has an aggressive nature and seldom hesitates to throw the first punch. His personality can be alternately fierce and sarcastic. He resents Leonardo at times because of his position of authority. Raphael wears a red mask and wields a pair of sai. He is named after Raphael Sanzio.

Dodo would be * Michelangelo (Orange) — The easy-going and free-spirited Michelangelo provides much of the comic relief. While he loves to relax, this Turtle also has an adventurous and creative side. He wears an orange mask and wields a pair of nunchaku. He is named after Michelangelo Buonarroti. His name was originally misspelled "Michaelangelo" by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman.

Lory would be * Donatello (Purple) — The brilliant scientist, inventor, engineer, and technological genius. He is perhaps the least violent Turtle, preferring to use his intellect to solve conflicts. He wears a purple mask and wields the bō staff. He is named after the sculptor Donatello.

I am very pleased with my self for this one!

Turtle discriptions taken from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:14 am
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Clementine
Decorated


Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 208

anonymousloli wrote:
Duck. Duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck.

I want more challenge. I want to have to work for what I do. I'm getting kind of bored, and that's not good. I want amusement. I don't want the rigid lines of the lory. I don't want the same old thing from the mouse. And Dodo is so Philip, and I have enough of one Philip in my life.

So, Duck. Give me Korp or give me boredom.


I agree with you, Loli -- about the bordeom, that is. However, isn't our vote supposed to determine the 'tone' of the rest of our journey? I'm worried that if there's too much Korp, we'll start to lose touch with the Deck and just end up chasing the 'bad guys' around. I hope that doesn't happen.

I dunno'. Maybe I'm not thinking about it all the way through.

I gotta' admit though -- Duck is tempting. I want to find out more about Korp. And he's obviously the clearest path to that.

Ohhh, the pressures of voting. This is why I'm a bad American and I'm not even registered yet. Heh.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:34 am
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redct
Entrenched


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1233

Falcos wrote:
Dodo said
Quote:
* Q: Do you think the Deck can learn something from the Passengers?
* Oh, for sure. That one guy already put those cool card trick videos up on YouTube. I totally want him to teach me that stuff.


Hey, I think Dodo is trying to butter me up! Dodo's tone seems to be sarcastic.


I agree with you. To me, Duck sounds a bit too... insincere in a way.

"Oh yeah, I REALLY want to learn this. Really."

I'd go with Mouse.
_________________
Playing and lurking: I'm too lazy to keep track
someone in IRC: see, sometimes instead of a man and woman loving each other, men and men love each other. this usually happens in prison, but sometimes in real life


PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:50 am
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eranmane
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 119

Mouse http://lyricwiki.org/U2:One_Tree_Hill
Dodo: http://lyricwiki.org/Pink_Floyd:Shine_On_You_Crazy_Diamond_(Parts_I-V)
(can't find Duck's song. is this the sort of silence he's trying to enforce?)
Lory: http://lyricwiki.org/The_Verve:Bittersweet_Symphony

OK, now to examine these. Lory's song...
Quote:

No change, I can change
I can change, I can change
But I'm here in my mold
I am here in my mold
And I'm a million different people
From one day to the next
I can't change my mold
No, no, no, no, no
I can't change
I can't change

Suggests that although he's had behavioural help treatment four times, he hasn't changed...

Mouse's song has a few interesting lines. I'm pretty familiar with the song too so that helps Smile

Quote:

I don't believe in painted roses or bleeding hearts
While bullets rape the night of the merciful.

Quote:
We turn away to face the cold, enduring chill
As the day begs the night for mercy, love.

A sun so bright it leaves no shadows
Only scars carved into stone on the face of earth.

The moon is up and over One Tree Hill
We see the sun go down in your eyes.

Quote:
You run like a river on to the sea
You run like a river runs to the sea.

[...]

It runs like a river runs to the sea.
It runs like a river to the sea.

[...]


We run like a river runs to the sea
We run like a river to the sea.


And when it's rainin', rainin' hard
That's when the rain will break a heart.

Rainin', rainin' in your heart
Rainin' in your heart.
Rainin', rain into your heart
Rainin', rainin', rainin'
Rain into your heart.
Rainin', ooh, rain in your heart, yeah.
Feel it.

Oh great ocean
Oh great sea
Run to the ocean
Run to the sea.


Dodo's song, you can kinda gain some info from the name, but...
Quote:
Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun…
Shine on you crazy diamond…!
Now there's a look in your eyes, like black holes in the sky…
Shine on you crazy diamond…!
You were caught in the crossfire of childhood and stardom,
blown on the steel breeze…!
Come on you target for faraway laughter…
come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr and shine!

You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon…
Shine on you crazy diamond…!
Threatened by shadows at night and exposed in the light…
Shine on you crazy diamond…!
Well, you wore out your welcome with random precision,
rode on the steel breeze…
Come on you raver, you seer of visions…
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner and shine!

What? "Threatened by shadows at night and exposed in the light..." What could that mean?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:41 pm
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mgelles
Decorated

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 210

Choosing mouse was incredibly easy for me on a personal level as we seem to share a worldview. What's more as an educator be trade, I am pleased to see that he believes in the role of educator as mentor and guide not as wise imparter of knowledge. all three others albiet with very different tones have placed control squarely with the deck as a matter of course. You could argue that mouse is simply tugging with the heartstrings and going for the popular vote and Duck is far more honest and blatant with his anything to win attitude but just because I can appreciate the honesty doesn't mean I'm voting for him/her
michelle
_________________
played Lost Experience, Occular effect, Geist, LGlabs, silverladder
lurking something is coming
playing:The Blackhand Coorporation


PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:04 pm
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two-eyes-and-a-nose
Boot


Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: northern CA

Regarding the Duck's honesty...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The link I provided elsewhere showing his confidential record where everything is blotted out except his birthday, and just may be a puzzle to work on. (link)


But, considering his statement:
Duck wrote:
Q: Finally, is there anything in your past that you regret?
Absolutely not. I have nothing to hide. I wouldn't put myself on such a public platform if I did. Unlike many people, I have lived a clean life and have a clear conscience as a result of it. I am an open book.


I would consider him a scary bad-man. But, maybe that's just me.

I would definitely suggest we start formulating questions for the candidates as relate to their files contained herein. Possibly inquiring as to the circumstances and nature of the behavioral health treatment's, and possibly, this just struck me, various forms of political activism that the candidates have been involved with in the past.

Finally, on a different note, in understanding of the desire for more challenge, engagement, and interaction from the Deck, and with respect towards the opinions of all fellow passengers, I did want to point out one item. In support of my current favorite candidate by far, Mouse.
Mouse wrote:
Had I been vying for this position five years ago, you would have gotten all of that. I would have been drawing lines left and right. I would have been neatly filing everything into perfect little pigeonholes and categories. I would have had a label for everything and a judgement for everyone. In the last few years, I have learned that there is a lot more flexibility in life than many people realize. I have also learned that what you believe as concrete fact and absolute truth sometimes has a way of bending in front of your eyes one day.
...
I also think that the Aces should seek more Passenger participation, and I mean beyond artwork. I'd like to see a Passenger become a card, even if it is an honorary title. I know there are many risks there, not the least of which is the danger of alienating the other Passengers who don't get selected. But I think it should happen.


This is just my opinion, but I take this to mean that, given Mouse's perspective, we should be able to steer this back towards a more challenging, Korporation-centric experience while retaining some of what we have enjoyed in recent changes. I think when reading this that the direction can be up to us, that it really can be, be that vanilla aspects of the plot, or more licorice flavored tid-bits.

[/soapbox]

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:04 pm
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anonymousloli
Unfettered


Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 475
Location: Michigan

I'm a bit worried that some passengers will vote for Mouse for the VERY SELFISH reason that they think they'd be chosen to be in the deck.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:46 pm
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two-eyes-and-a-nose
Boot


Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 47
Location: northern CA

Interesting point. It seems unlikely to me, but you may be very correct.

I took it more as an extreme example of how open she/he (I really get the feeling Mouse is female) is to passenger influence, and suggestion.

I'm now starting to feel like the Deck itself is somehow pushing for the Lory. Like how 2D was saying about the danger of critique (the whole put up or shut up), and the message on silverladder.com of how 2D was right are indicative of the fact that we should be more passive passengers. That the whole active passenger idea is not was this was supposed to be about. That participation and criticism are being viewed as synonymous and we should sit back and enjoy the show, have faith in the artist, etc.

My opinions tend to differ, and consider critique almost as a form of art or part of the process, but I may be wrong. My opinion and it's relation to the deck seems to be echoed here from 12-19-06:

mgelles wrote:
My e-mail to 2D from yesterday
Quote:

If you assume the point of criticism is to assign some kind of intrinsic value or somehow assign yourself as superior to the artist then such critique is not made with in the true spirit of art but critique can have tremendous value in helping us connect with ourselves and with others. A discussion of art tells us more about these things than the piece itself to say "I think this painting is great" or I think this music sucks" means nothing but to say why sparks discussion. To say "Billy Joel is my favorite musical artist because of his skill at storytelling and mastery of different musical forms or "I dislike this painting because of its seemingly random use of color" says something about me more than either piece, but it also might cause those around me to consider something they may not have about the song and others' opinions about something challenges me to think in new ways. You don't have to have a degree in art to have opinion about a painting but you should ask yourself why you feel that. Art and by extension criticism of it should be a gateway to connection, self-challenge and self-discovery not a means to merely pass judgment.

Michelle


And his response

Quote:



That is the heart of the problem. That critics feel that art is worthless without their input. That art cannot be appreciated without a filter. That art is YHWH and that critics are rabbis, writing their own Talmud of criticism. That by justifying their own opinions, they can be considered as worthy and vital as the artist is beyond hubris.

2D



My gut did say Mouse, but I still don't know what I think.

P.S. I feel like I'm posting way too much. I hope I'm making sense and actually adding something here.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:18 pm
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brenbear
Boot


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 12

I am leaning towards mouse, diamonds crossed with hearts. I like the idea of inclusiveness versus being instructed. but that is just my opinion. we all need to answer which direction calls to us.

~bren the Bear~

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:37 pm
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