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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[NEW] Cloverfield Manga?
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Euchre
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 3342

 		The ultimate franchises or genre of any entertainment become a self-perpetuating entity. We see this in many things, and not just modern cinema. Consider these, in order of durability from most recent to oldest:
  • James Bond
  • Superman
  • Mickey Mouse
  • Santa Claus
  • 'classical' music
  • the stage play (basically created by the Greeks and sustained as Broadway style stage performance around the world)

There is a bit of a jump there, indeed - but consider how much breadth each icon of entertainment has achieved over time. They generally transition into new mediums and there is still new media being created for each of them.

I think JJ's issue is that he sees his works in terms of such a self-sustaining genre. When his works end without resolution, they aren't dead in his mind I imagine. He's obviously trying to tie most of them together over time. I suspect that he sees Cloverfield as a chance to grow a franchise that will become larger than himself, and sustain itself. Branching into manga is just another way to ingrain his story into the broader entertainment landscape. I find it an ironic choice, because he's obviously 'bridging' between the powerhouse of cinematic monster mythology (Japan) and his own homegrown franchise.

Considering JJ's lack of closure on his previous projects, I wouldn't be surprised if the manga tells us plenty more about Tagruato and the origins of MGP, but of course raises even more questions that will remain unanswered if (and more likely when) the manga ends.
_________________
Any sufficiently plausible fiction is indistinguishable from reality.
Any sufficiently twisted reality is indistinguishable from fiction.
Welcome to the new world of entertainment.
©Euchre 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:47 am
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matt_the_pale
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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 215
Euchre wrote:
I find it an ironic choice, because he's obviously 'bridging' between the powerhouse of cinematic monster mythology (Japan) and his own homegrown franchise.

It's ironic in a second way: Japanese directors will always use mystery and unanswered questions in a much more masterful way than he will ever apparently achieve.

Quote:
I think JJ's issue is that he sees his works in terms of such a self-sustaining genre. When his works end without resolution, they aren't dead in his mind I imagine.

If that's true (and I suspect you may be right), then he's failed to realize that there are literally hundreds of thousands of self-contained tales which do have a resolution that are also timeless, even though there's no mystery, or that the mystery is revealed during the course of the story, whether as a matter of being outright explained or able to be pieced together from the story itself.

Maybe he forgot that just because something is mysterious or unanswered doesn't make it timeless, and it certainly doesn't automatically make it interesting. In fact, too many unanswered questions can be overwhelmingly distracting and can make the work too tedious for an audience to ever be satisfied with. If a work is going to use the technique of mystery and unanswered questions, then it needs to balance that with elements that lead the audience to some type of satisfaction.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:00 am
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Ouroborus
Unfictologist


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 1352

 		Is it really fair to get on JJ for lack of closure for LOST?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:08 am
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Dr. Chaos
Boot

Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 20
matt_the_pale wrote:
Dr. Chaos wrote:
I'm inclined to agree with this.

Not to say I don't think he's talented at times but he has a very tricky way of pulling in an audience he won't be able to satisfy in the end.

The frustrating part is you get the feeling thats kind of the point for him, that questions are more important than the actual story.

That is exactly his M.O., and exactly what I warned people of six months ago, when this ARG was first getting started. Oh, sure, he's good at setting up something that looks interesting, and (at least for a little while), it is interesting. And then, it starts to kind of plod on for a length of time. You start to wonder if the first questions you asked are going to be answered. Time passes, and you wake up one day to realize that the mysterious story with the incredibly interesting hook has turned into a big pile of suck.

As someone who left Lost and it's identity crisis in the dust last year, you're preaching to the choir, my friend.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:11 am
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matt_the_pale
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Ouroborus wrote:
Is it really fair to get on JJ for lack of closure for LOST?

Yes. He's still the executive producer, isn't he?

Anyway, I am truly sorry for de-railing the thread.

Carry on with the discussion of Abram's newest con ARG, Cloverfield!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:14 am
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john locke
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Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 175
Location: Damned if we know!

 		Thats Harsh Matt, I think JJ has a great knack for telling a story, okay sometimes a conclusive end e.g happily ever after isnt there, but isnt that like life? I'll bet theres not one person on this board that hasnt got tons of stories that have no complete end! loose ends are everywhere! if for example cloverfield explained and tied up everything youd need to first start at where MGP came from? is he alone? right up to what of any survivors etc....... plus all the pieces in between! this is meant to be what it is! a found camcorder that has footage of a horrific event that we get to witness through there eyes! no whys, whats, or explanation!
Enjoy it for what it is! I do however think that JJ will explore origin etc.. through some other medium like the comic, so just enjoy finding these tidbits that enhance the whole experience!
Ive loved this from the start and will follow it through for pleasure.
If you cant do this then go watch a basic hollywood fodder movie, beginning, middle, the end,
just my thoughts!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:47 am
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crow
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Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 112

 		i never meant for that comment to be anyway slagging jj and this story, im personally a big fan of Lost, and this story so far.
I was under the impression that this story would soon be over, other than idea that this viral campaign would wrap up in may sometime, but with this manga, it just hooks me right back in there.

Quote:
this is meant to be what it is! a found camcorder that has footage of a horrific event that we get to witness through there eyes! no whys, whats, or explanation!
Enjoy it for what it is! I do however think that JJ will explore origin etc.. through some other medium like the comic, so just enjoy finding these tidbits that enhance the whole experience!
Ive loved this from the start and will follow it through for pleasure.


yes

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:06 am
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matt_the_pale
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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 215
john locke wrote:
Thats Harsh Matt, I think JJ has a great knack for telling a story, okay sometimes a conclusive end e.g happily ever after isnt there, but isnt that like life? I'll bet theres not one person on this board that hasnt got tons of stories that have no complete end! loose ends are everywhere! if for example cloverfield explained and tied up everything youd need to first start at where MGP came from? is he alone? right up to what of any survivors etc....... plus all the pieces in between! this is meant to be what it is! a found camcorder that has footage of a horrific event that we get to witness through there eyes! no whys, whats, or explanation!
Enjoy it for what it is! I do however think that JJ will explore origin etc.. through some other medium like the comic, so just enjoy finding these tidbits that enhance the whole experience!
Ive loved this from the start and will follow it through for pleasure.
If you cant do this then go watch a basic hollywood fodder movie, beginning, middle, the end,
just my thoughts!

My problem is not with unsolved mysteries, but with a poor execution of using it as a storytelling device. Most movies which have unanswered questions; it's simply the nature of the medium itself, and that is perfectly understandable. And, there are many directors who have effectively used mystery and unanswered questions to satisfying conclusion in movies and television shows. Abrams is not one of them, so far as I can tell. The stories of (and viewer interest therein) Alias and Lost get overshadowed by the sheer number of unanswered questions; eventually you get the feeling that your time is being wasted.

However, as I said, a movie by its very nature has to be self-contained. Perhaps the limitation of the medium itself and the manner in which it was told allowed a story to actually take place and not be overshadowed by the tedium of unanswered questions, unlike his other works. To that end, perhaps Cloverfield is his best work: one in which his love of unanswered questions and mysteries don't matter, because it's a movie; it has a finite beginning and a finite end, and there's nothing else you can do but appreciate the self-contained story as written. It doesn't matter where the monster comes from: it just happens (Stephen King is a master of this type of story). Even I can appreciate that.

Except that isn't the case, is it?

The problem lies with the ARG and its massive amount of time-wasting non-information. From what I can tell, the mysteries presented by the ARG are totally unrelated to the movie. There's mystery, but it's pointless mystery. And I think I have discovered why Abrams' mysteries are so unsatisfying.

Enigmas, puzzles, and mysteries should bring enlightenment or at least some type of satisfaction upon contemplation of them and understanding of them as mysteries. (This is somewhat related to Zen Buddhism, I guess.) I have watched movies and television programs which have presented mysteries, and they are satisfying because they enlighten, or can be appreciated as mysteries, and enjoyed as mysteries. The mysteries that Abrams presents are not enlightening: they only frustrate their audience. You have to be able to provide a reason as to why the answer doesn't matter; a mystery for the sake of having a mystery is not necessarily interesting or good.

Let me use, for example, John Carpenter's The Thing.

"Where did the Thing come from? It doesn't matter, because the movie is about how the residents of Outpost 31 respond to it."

That's even applicable to Cloverfield itself. "Where did the monster come from? It doesn't matter, because it's a story about these particular people and their response to the monster." In that case, it wouldn't matter because the story is self-contained.

But it does matter, because the ARG is there. The ARG makes it frustratingly open-ended; it teases us with the possibility of providing answers but always gives non-information instead of letting us just be satisfied with the realization that there are no answers, or that the mystery itself is more important.

Perhaps the ARG some kind of sick, psychotic way of making us appreciate not knowing the answers instead of actively going out and seeking answers by causing us to be disappointed with the answers we've found and regret seeking them in the first place.

Did this make sense?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:23 am
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167

 		Cool!
I'm translating it!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:54 am
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167

 		Page 1
Thanx to arienai for provided translations, I'll integrate the mhere



source: http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/tachiyomi/comic/cloverfield/
(c)2008 Paramount Pictures. All Rights Reserved.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:07 am
Last edited by kosmopol on Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167

 		Translation goes ahead

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:14 am
Last edited by kosmopol on Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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matt_the_pale
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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 215

 		Page 10 of the manga really strikes me as being Toshiki Yui's style. I'm only saying this because I read an article which mentions that a Google search for the supposed artist of the comic book, "Yoshiki Togawa," comes up blank, which leads me to believe that it's a fake name.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:31 am
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Snyde Comment
Boot

Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 45

 		OMG MAYBE THERE IS A LINK BETWEEN HALO AND CLOVERFIELD.....MASTER CHEIF WAS DESIGNED BY TAGRUATO!!!! 117 Very Happy lol jk

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:43 am
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167

 		Author name:
東川祥樹

It's a little bit difficult.
東川
may be:
Tôgawa, Unogawa, Higashikawa, Azumakawa (family name)

祥樹
Yoshiki (forename)

Update: It's Yoshiki Togawa (I've to read editoral before looking up, hehe)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:43 am
Last edited by kosmopol on Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167
Click here for full size

source: http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/tachiyomi/comic/cloverfield/
(c)2008 Paramount Pictures. All Rights Reserved.

Resized image to stop forum stretching. - E

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:56 am
Last edited by kosmopol on Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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