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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[Spoiler]just saw a preview screening in australia 16/01/08
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23rdboy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2007
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gigantis2001 wrote:
Actually, it's "Velma." (Did anyone else watch Scooby-Doo just because you were hoping the monster would be real this time?)


Laughing Yeah, I did! Laughing

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:59 pm
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gigantis2001
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 		Ha, I was always so pissed that it never happened (until "Scooby Doo on Zombie Island"); I hated everything about the show as a kid (still do), but always loved monsters, so I couldn't resist watching anyway.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:02 pm
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Helo
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m_talon wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Any other ending besides the camera being buried along with Rob and Beth would be cliche and cheesy. Not every story has to end with the hero getting the girl and riding off into the sunset. Sometimes, no matter how well intentioned your actions were, it just doesn't work out.


Now that I'm done spoiling, let me say that it totally irks me that today's audience can't deal with non-traditional storytelling. Everything has to follow formula, right down to the predictable endings.

Which brings me to another spoiler, this time for I Am Legend. The ending in the movie is vastly different from the book, and that riled me bad.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The original book does NOT end on anything remotely resembling a happy note. The hero finds out that many of the daysleepers he killed were actually normal at night. He is "Legend" because he is the evil that kills them while they sleep, and he commits suicide before the still living can execute him. He doesn't die a martyr with a miracle cure delivered. He dies as a legendary horrific monster.


So I give kudos to any writer with the cahones to break formula.


I was going to bring this up earlier but I figured no one would even care. The I Am Legend book is dark, disturbing, and the hero is anything but. He dies at the end and vampires take over the world. The movie is totally different, but I appreciate both. The book is dark and tormenting, but the movie makes you feel good (and it's hard to hate Will Smith. He's a great actor and he adapts well to roles).

Cloverfield is what Cloverfield is. I haven't seen it yet but I'm looking forward to it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:10 pm
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blaaaaaah
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TPMdm wrote:
wrastler3 wrote:
The reason for the ending you described is simple. This movie is made using a hand held camera so that everything you see is what the main characters are seeing.


B.S.
IF that were the case we wouldn't be seeing the "Case designate Cloverfield" blah blah at the intro.

Could have ended with:

cut to a hospital room with some military guys asking rob is that was his camera and if he remembered the images he saw (happy ending)

cut to a congressional hearing with insert the blank on trial and this submitted as exhibit 'a' (enigmatic but not sad ending)

cut to a bunch of military/science guys looking at a computer screen (as if they had just reviewed the footage) and saying things like "too bad they didn't make it", "they died in each other's arms", "I'm not sure how we're going to take down that thing if Hammerdown didn't work", etc. (enigmatic and IMO best ending)


Those are all boring formulaic shitty endings.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:12 pm
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TPMdm
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blaaaaaah wrote:


Those are all boring formulaic shitty endings.


but they are endings and they all leave open the possibility of a sequel. And they don't leave you asking questions for the sake of questioning. I was just pointing out it would be infinately simple to give this thing a "proper" ending. Just cause I'm not a member of SAG doesn't mean JJ and Reeves couldn't come up with something (or maybe they couldn't??). I've come to the conclusion that IMO JJ doesn't deserve nearly as much praise as he's getting. Like matt_the_pale pointed out in another thread, asking leaving questions unanswered "just because" is weak and poor story telling.

The unanswered questions should lead to something, usually enlightenment about something else or illumination of some aspect of human existence.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:26 pm
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blaaaaaah
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TPMdm wrote:
blaaaaaah wrote:


Those are all boring formulaic shitty endings.


but they are endings and they all leave open the possibility of a sequel. And they don't leave you asking questions for the sake of questioning. I was just pointing out it would be infinately simple to give this thing a "proper" ending. Just cause I'm not a member of SAG doesn't mean JJ and Reeves couldn't come up with something (or maybe they couldn't??). I've come to the conclusion that IMO JJ doesn't deserve nearly as much praise as he's getting. Like matt_the_pale pointed out in another thread, asking leaving questions unanswered "just because" is weak and poor story telling.

The unanswered questions should lead to something, usually enlightenment about something else or illumination of some aspect of human existence.


Imagination.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:27 pm
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Bacon Army
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TPMdm wrote:
blaaaaaah wrote:


Those are all boring formulaic shitty endings.


but they are endings and they all leave open the possibility of a sequel. And they don't leave you asking questions for the sake of questioning. I was just pointing out it would be infinately simple to give this thing a "proper" ending. Just cause I'm not a member of SAG doesn't mean JJ and Reeves couldn't come up with something (or maybe they couldn't??). I've come to the conclusion that IMO JJ doesn't deserve nearly as much praise as he's getting. Like matt_the_pale pointed out in another thread, asking leaving questions unanswered "just because" is weak and poor story telling.

The unanswered questions should lead to something, usually enlightenment about something else or illumination of some aspect of human existence.


Rolling Eyes

Anyone here read the John Fowles novel The Magus? No? Well, that has a really enigmatic, no questions answered ending, and it works FANTASTICALLY. In my experience, I've found that the films that don't leave you with a clear conclusion, that don't spoonfeed you everything, are better, because they leave the film open for interpretation from the viewers. To be honest, I think Cloverfield actually benefited from having such an abrupt, ambiguous ending.

I mean, it would be a great film to study for a Film or English paper - that's got to be a testament to how deep and open to interpretation it is.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:53 pm
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matt_the_pale
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Bacon Army wrote:
Anyone here read the John Fowles novel The Magus? No? Well, that has a really enigmatic, no questions answered ending, and it works FANTASTICALLY. In my experience, I've found that the films that don't leave you with a clear conclusion, that don't spoonfeed you everything, are better, because they leave the film open for interpretation from the viewers. To be honest, I think Cloverfield actually benefited from having such an abrupt, ambiguous ending.

I mean, it would be a great film to study for a Film or English paper - that's got to be a testament to how deep and open to interpretation it is.

Just because something is unanswered doesn't necessarily mean that it's deep or worth contemplating.

As I said elsewhere, if it were just the movie by itself, then I would say it's probably acceptible to have mysteries; for the most part, ending the movie with unanswered questions can lead to a satisfying conclusion for a number of reasons.

However, it isn't just the movie, is it? There's also the ARG. The ARG -- which doesn't seem to relate in any shape, way, or form to the movie. The maddening thing is that there are unanswered questions, and the ARG taunts us with the possibility of having those questions answered. "How are Slusho, etc., etc. related to the monster?" So, you follow the ARG, and eventually realize you've been led on a wild goose chase.

I've come to believe that the ARG is not only a way of generating "hype" on the internet, but is a method of punishing people for being curious. Here's my reasoning:

If you know nothing of the ARG, it's possible for you to be satisfied with not knowing any answers of the movie itself. After all, it doesn't matter where the monster comes from: it just happens, and the real story is about how these particular people deal with it, and what happens to them. In this case, it's possible to simply appreciate the questions that are left unanswered, because they are irrelevant to the real story.

But the ARG throws a second element in, which goes like this: "Hey, maybe if you follow me, you'll get some answers. (But you actually won't, because I'm wasting your time with non-information.)" Suddenly those unanswered questions have the possibility of being answered; you want SOMETHING to be answered, but the ARG never seems to answer anything at all, and only makes you more and more frustrated.

It's well-known that Abrams has a love of mystery and a fondness for keeping questions unanswered. Perhaps this ARG is a way of telling us: "You'd have been a lot happier had you not gotten curious, and had just been satisfied with the way the movie played out. Instead, you wouldn't be satisfied with just the movie; no, you had to try and find out more, and as a result, your time was wasted with irrelevant information." Perhaps this is Abrams' way of saying, "Hey, I love mystery, and I think YOU need to learn how to just appreciate mysteries as they are, so I'm going to punish you for being curious until you learn to just appreciate the mystery of things instead of always looking for answers."

Does this make sense?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:13 pm
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Bacon Army
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matt_the_pale wrote:
Bacon Army wrote:
Anyone here read the John Fowles novel The Magus? No? Well, that has a really enigmatic, no questions answered ending, and it works FANTASTICALLY. In my experience, I've found that the films that don't leave you with a clear conclusion, that don't spoonfeed you everything, are better, because they leave the film open for interpretation from the viewers. To be honest, I think Cloverfield actually benefited from having such an abrupt, ambiguous ending.

I mean, it would be a great film to study for a Film or English paper - that's got to be a testament to how deep and open to interpretation it is.

Just because something is unanswered doesn't necessarily mean that it's deep or worth contemplating.

As I said elsewhere, if it were just the movie by itself, then I would say it's probably acceptible to have mysteries; for the most part, ending the movie with unanswered questions can lead to a satisfying conclusion for a number of reasons.

However, it isn't just the movie, is it? There's also the ARG. The ARG -- which doesn't seem to relate in any shape, way, or form to the movie. The maddening thing is that there are unanswered questions, and the ARG taunts us with the possibility of having those questions answered. "How are Slusho, etc., etc. related to the monster?" So, you follow the ARG, and eventually realize you've been led on a wild goose chase.

I've come to believe that the ARG is not only a way of generating "hype" on the internet, but is a method of punishing people for being curious. Here's my reasoning:

If you know nothing of the ARG, it's possible for you to be satisfied with not knowing any answers of the movie itself. After all, it doesn't matter where the monster comes from: it just happens, and the real story is about how these particular people deal with it, and what happens to them. In this case, it's possible to simply appreciate the questions that are left unanswered, because they are irrelevant to the real story.

But the ARG throws a second element in, which goes like this: "Hey, maybe if you follow me, you'll get some answers. (But you actually won't, because I'm wasting your time with non-information.)" Suddenly those unanswered questions have the possibility of being answered; you want SOMETHING to be answered, but the ARG never seems to answer anything at all, and only makes you more and more frustrated.

It's well-known that Abrams has a love of mystery and a fondness for keeping questions unanswered. Perhaps this ARG is a way of telling us: "You'd have been a lot happier had you not gotten curious, and had just been satisfied with the way the movie played out. Instead, you wouldn't be satisfied with just the movie; no, you had to try and find out more, and as a result, your time was wasted with irrelevant information." Perhaps this is Abrams' way of saying, "Hey, I love mystery, and I think YOU need to learn how to just appreciate mysteries as they are, so I'm going to punish you for being curious until you learn to just appreciate the mystery of things instead of always looking for answers."

Does this make sense?


Oh, I thought we were arguing the movie.

Unfortunately, I agree with you in the case of the ARG. I'm feeling really empty right about now, and unless Abrams' crew actually continues the ARG past 1-18-08 and actually gives us some stuff to tie it all together, I'm going to call up JJ and bill him for all my hours of unproductive time. I wouldn't call it punishing, but I definitely wouldn't call it productive.

The movie, on the other hand, does the whole ambiguous thing fantastically...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:48 am
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Saiyan King
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 		The thing i dont get is why is everone shitting on JJ for anything. He didnt make the movie people, he only came up with the idea and produced it, which pretty much means financed it. Drew Goddard wrote it and Matt Reeves directed it. IF u have beef with the movie, have it with them, not JJ. And for the record, im not a JJ lover or anything; dont watch Lost or anything else he does. Just stating the facts
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:05 am
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mitchellicious
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Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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 		I'm also from Australia and saw the movie today.

For the person who asked if it feels longer than 73 minutes, yes it does because the start is pretty freakin' slow. Luckily it jumps up a few notches after about 20 minutes or so.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
BTW, the monster heavily resembles a Chimera from Resistance: Fall of Man with a few big changes. I was a bit disappointed with the monster from the small glimpses you get to see. Hopefully it looks cooler in a sequel Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:09 am
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Bacon Army
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Saiyan King wrote:
The thing i dont get is why is everone shitting on JJ for anything. He didnt make the movie people, he only came up with the idea and produced it, which pretty much means financed it. Drew Goddard wrote it and Matt Reeves directed it. IF u have beef with the movie, have it with them, not JJ. And for the record, im not a JJ lover or anything; dont watch Lost or anything else he does. Just stating the facts


JJ was executive producer, which means he did have creative control over this film, meaning he is somewhat responsible for everything.

Plus, he's a great scapegoat. Laughing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:12 am
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mitchellicious
Greenhorn

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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TPMdm wrote:
blaaaaaah wrote:


Those are all boring formulaic shitty endings.


but they are endings and they all leave open the possibility of a sequel. And they don't leave you asking questions for the sake of questioning. I was just pointing out it would be infinately simple to give this thing a "proper" ending. Just cause I'm not a member of SAG doesn't mean JJ and Reeves couldn't come up with something (or maybe they couldn't??). I've come to the conclusion that IMO JJ doesn't deserve nearly as much praise as he's getting. Like matt_the_pale pointed out in another thread, asking leaving questions unanswered "just because" is weak and poor story telling.

The unanswered questions should lead to something, usually enlightenment about something else or illumination of some aspect of human existence.


I'd bet a fair amount of money that we'll find out more about this, if not in a sequel than in a video game or graphic novel or something of that nature. This will be especially true if the movie makes a buttload of money.

No one, I repeat NO ONE would keep the integrity of their story and mythology alive if there is money to be made. (Just look at George Lucas if you want proof of that.)

I don't care how much JJ talks about his love of mystery either . . . mystery's not gonna put his kids through college Laughing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:45 am
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