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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Old News & Rumors
[Trailhead] Fucktinag!
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Axys Denyed
Unfettered


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 456
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Star Spider wrote:
I have read alot about the concept thank you kindly Smile

And I have heard people refer to tinag as a concept that umbrella's players as well - there seem to be quite a few thoughts on the matter actually.

But I still believe that the genre should not be limited like that.

I don't think the game should have to come crashing down if a character became self aware. That is kind of like saying our reality ceased to exist when we as a species became self aware. I think a self aware character could be build into the game form without the universe crashing and burning. I believe that ARG's should be flexible enough to accomadate any eventuality. Hence the 'interactive' part of it. If something doesn't go as planned should the plan not be changed?

I like how this GM is questioning the 'norms' and expanding the boundaries. I think it can be just as entertaining either way!

Anyone else sent any art in?


I agree with you on the flexibility of ARGs. They should be able to handle many things. However, the characters are not real. They do not exist. They do need to believe they exist. If they were to be shown that they do not exist, this creates a logical paradox. It helps break the player's suspension of disbelief and causes people to become disillusioned with the game.

Also, regarding UnFiction being in-game: it's not. First, that would violate the site's TOS. Second, the players need a place where they can discuss the game without worrying about the characters looking over their shoulders. Without such a space, a sanctuary completely outside of the game, collaboration becomes next to impossible. After all, how can you share secret information with the other players if the bad guy will just read whatever you post?
_________________
I've searched for the Cube, played poker with the dead, hunted monsters, helped stop Spoocheee and helped find a dimension hopping cat. What else you got?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:42 pm
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Star Spider
Veteran


Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 148

 		I understand where you are coming from but I still believe in the power of art and believe that people can make an entertaining game no matter what (this game is highly entertaining to me because of the concepts it addresses and the humor involved). The reason I like it is because it is not pretending to be something that it is not.

But I agree - the characters believe they are characters - that is fine. That is storytelling - role playing - what have you. But I am just saying that I don't think an ARG should be limited to stories like that. I think an ARG should be able to call itself a game and still be an ARG. It is an Alternate Reality Game not a This is not a game game. So as long as the GM creates some sort of 'Alternate Reality' somehow then it is and ARG IMO.

Secondly I understand about characters not posting in Unfiction. However the GM is not doing that. There is nothing that I can see that says Unfiction cannot be referenced in a game though - is there? Unfiction cannot have control over what happens game side!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:51 pm
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Axys Denyed
Unfettered


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 456
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Star Spider wrote:
Secondly I understand about characters not posting in Unfiction. However the GM is not doing that. There is nothing that I can see that says Unfiction cannot be referenced in a game though - is there? Unfiction cannot have control over what happens game side!


True, UnFiction has no control over the game, but using such blatant references to the forums shows that the PM is reading it. We all know the PMs read the forums. Even that they specifically read the threads/forums for the games they're PMing, but to point this out in-game undermines the whole point of the site being out of game. As I said, though, this is a little too META, and a little too early in the game to make such assumptions. I think I'm going to lurk the thread and stop the META discussion in here.
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I've searched for the Cube, played poker with the dead, hunted monsters, helped stop Spoocheee and helped find a dimension hopping cat. What else you got?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:56 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Star Spider wrote:
I have read alot about the concept thank you kindly Smile

Yes, we have gone over this quite a lot before Razz

Once again though - if a character is told they're fictional, then the puppetmaster decides to include that revelation as 'part of the game', then the game's boundaries haven't been broken - they've been expanded to include it. So the puppetmaster has to decide whether to ignore that revelation or embrace it - either way, the point remains: the logical paradox cannot exist. That is the point of TINAG, as Axys said. TINAG isn't really a 'to be or not to be' thing - it's the logic behind alternate reality games. If it's broken, then really, it's either not an ARG, or it's flawed. It's a fundamental concept. As players, we respect TINAG by not forcing puppetmasters into that situation by pressing 'this IS a game!' at them at every turn. Both players and PMs recognize it is a game, but to maintain the 'alternate reality', both have to, logically, 'pretend' it doesn't.

Quote:
But I still believe that the genre should not be limited like that.


That's what makes the genre though. The genre can be expanded and challenged, but just like anything in this universe, change a definition of something enough and it becomes something else. That's one reason we've got "Chaotic Fiction" now, recognizing that there are so many variants, some ignoring TINAG altogether; to help try to organize and define these things so as not to confuse people. Already the media has grabbed hold of the buzz phrase 'alternate reality game' at every corner for something just viral or mysterious, and it's muddying the waters.

TINAG is an essential concept for ARGs.


As for UF - the TOS can only be upheld within the bounds of UF. So yes, in theory, UF can be mentioned in-game, off-site, at the PM's choice, but the problem is that as Axys said, UF shouldn't exist in the game world because it's a "safe-zone" for players - a bridge from the real world to the game world. If the game recognizes unfiction, then simply put, it confuses the game, makes the game harder to play, and potentially breaks the community apart (and this has happened previously) because players aren't free to discuss anything, recognizing the game as a game.

As for discussion here, well, I think the PM likes to see the TINAG concept erupt in debate by the introduction of this lieel :censored:tinag "trail".
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:05 pm
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Macavity
Entrenched


Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 883
Location: UNSC Comm Relay Station Alpha, West Shokan, NY

 		On a slightly different note, methinks I may have stumbled on the next part of the ARG (or whatever it is) by nattering with the PM.

See, in one email I made reference to the lighting for the picture I took (which was of a shirt with the Brotherhood of Nod sigil on it), and then mentioning that "at least it's not pitch dark - then I'd have to worry about grues!"


Here's what's happened since:
Quote:

Quote:
Oh dear! You've been eaten by a grue! Sad Would you like to start over?

Beautiful! You will move on soon! I just to have to decide on when to let you! ;D


>yes

Quote:
>"IT IS WORTHLESS, he entered his opening salvo of this particular
day into the electrosphere, then he backspaced over the
word WORTHLESS and typed in DATA. By the time he was finished
with his first line it read IT IS DATA THAT WORRIES
ME." It seems you have stumbled over a manifesto! What do you choose to do?


>get manifesto

Quote:
>"His glazed donut eyes were spacing out into the electrosphere
looking for more words to transcribe his personal loss of meaning.
Taking his fingers off the keyboard he started talking to himself
in a mock-professional way: "Let's pretend to rub shoulders
with the Giants of Narrative. Let's take this line by line pseudoprogression
of thrusting development and zap it with so many
special-effects that everyone who reads it will be totally wowed.
Let's pretend that this is as new as it gets and then in our best
trendoid way, let's prove that this is the best in mortal fiction.
That's right, mortal fiction. Never say die!!""

Seems you can find the manifesto here!
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
http://www.altx.com/ebooks/download.cfm/artist.pdf


Be intrigued by the thoughts therein?



I've read the manifesto, and it's a right brainf*ck.
_________________
You are likely to be eaten by a grue. If this predicament seems particularly cruel,
Consider whose fault it could be, with no match or torch in your inventory...
NP: Erase The Truth

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:56 pm
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lhilt
Boot

Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 55

 		google search turns up

http://www.markamerika.com/

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:14 pm
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EliteFencer
Guest


 		This is almost definitely KetsuiChan who created this. The 'Men' page has the entire theory of KetsuiChan written all over it. Either that, or it was a pissed off UF member who didn't want the game to end Laughing
Well, I'll see if I can solve the weird shit on the Index page, but it'll have to wait-- I've got a class in a few minutes. It seems that the page has been mirrored, and a lot of it is covered by what looks like hexcode and binary.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:16 pm
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Star Spider
Veteran


Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 148

 		Alright thebruce you and I can argue this next time we see each other until we are blue in the face - deal? Wink

But on another note...

In the meantime let's get this thing moving along Wink


Spoiler (Rollover to View):

http://www.freewebs.com/fucktinag/movingalong/heheh.htm

I think this game is funky Smile I love all the issues it brings to light and am looking forward to what comes next!


PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:21 pm
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EliteFencer
Guest


 		Well, I got some done.
Allright, decoding the first binary 'author' on the Index (I used both the red and black numbers) gave me:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
DÞçtyÐ
.
Both the binary ''replies'' and ''views'' numbers gave me just
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
t

The space after this (I realized the page was stretched way, way far out for some reason with a bunch of these images) gave me
Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Ye9


So. Any ideas?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:28 pm
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lhilt
Boot

Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 55

 		http://www.freewebs.com/fucktinag/movingalong/phone.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/fucktinag/movingalong/lol.htm
which says:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

What I'm trying to say is, stop taking it all so seriously. Laugh a little.

PMs will now be known as jackasses! Grues will eat you! And god damn it, read some Mark Amerika!


PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:35 pm
Last edited by lhilt on Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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booba
Unfictologist


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1433
Star Spider wrote:
Alright thebruce you and I can argue this next time we see each other until we are blue in the face - deal? Wink

But on another note...

In the meantime let's get this thing moving along Wink


Spoiler (Rollover to View):

http://www.freewebs.com/fucktinag/movingalong/heheh.htm

I think this game is funky Smile I love all the issues it brings to light and am looking forward to what comes next!



This one has a little Ctrl "a" nugget: You'll get to move on once we meet a few quotas! Smile Oh, oh, also! phone.htm<br><br>

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:36 pm
Last edited by booba on Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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eliteFencer
Guest


 		The first Hexcoded 'topic', when decoded, gave me:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Where All Roads Meet

A Legnd of Zelda Game?!?
.

At least it wasn't gibberish.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:40 pm
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Star Spider
Veteran


Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 148

 		Hee hee PM's as jackasses eh?

I wonder if s/he falls into that category?

Well - since chatting with him/her it has been decided at least on my end that I will be calling them GM's from here on in - as I find the term PM to be elitist and disconnected from the players!

I wonder what the quota is?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:48 pm
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Oriza
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 1078
Location: Michigan and Florida

 		The second topic when decoded gave me nothing, just
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
[CA][ARG] Conspiracy Asylum Trailhead

[ Goto page: 1, 2, 3, ..., 9, 10, 11 ]

_________________
"You want weapons? We're in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world! This room's the greatest arsenal we could have. Here-- arm yourself."
--Doctor Who, Tooth and Claw

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:49 pm
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booba
Unfictologist


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1433

 		For that binary under Author I get "Bowty25"

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:52 pm
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