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[STORIES] [TRAILHEAD] We Tell Stories
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chelec
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 156
Location: London

 		I try and do another post, re-read the rules, correct the old one and you all point out my mistake before I get to the new info!.

Let me if I can type this scenario before it gets lost:

He has 6 cards. He goes into a duel and wins, so he gets to be the Taker.

The duel cards are discarded.

He has 5 cards and needs a specific one to make up the 100. He asks for it.

The mysterious person plays him for the fool, and takes his World Card. When you do the swap, you place the cards blind - so he did swap the World Card deliberately?

So we have to work out what he asked for, which gives us an indication of the value he was after. We then need to work out which card to discard and which to go after. And what new card he got?

oohhh. my head hurts

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:01 pm
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ALISDAIRPARK
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 		At the risk of stating the obvious, we've got another two installments to go yet, so I reckon we'll get the info to fill in the blanks with them...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:03 pm
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Cabbage
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Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 320
Location: North-East England, UK

 		Ok, going back to Marsh-Ayre's words and a lot of speculation -

The venue for finding the next card is hard to conceive. It could, after all, be anywhere. It is everywhere. But then, sometimes one can't see the forest for the trees.


Out of all the cards, which one could be said to be "everywhere". Death?

So was he after Death?

For instance, his hand could have been
The World 21 + Judgment 20 + the Sun 19 + The Moon 18 + the Hermit 9

( + Death 13 = 100)

though that hand is only one of several combinations.




Actually thinking about this, and the Devil being a woman card, having this gender duality, maybe The Devil card fits as well...

Very late, very tired now. Brain hurts.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:11 pm
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ambien
Boot

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 34

 		Cabbage, I took Marsh-Ayre's words to be describing The World, which I suppose is anywhere and everywhere, if you see what I mean. He talks of conceiving himself looking down on "that place we dwell" (the world?) and sees 4 creatures and the hermaphradite which all appear on the World card.

EDIT: So maybe he need to find inhabitants of the Mirror world to give them their own cards to ie give The World card to the male/female character who appears on that card.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:22 pm
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veebee
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 551

 		[quote="chelec"]
Quote:


EDIT - he also has to declare which path he is following at the start of the game


Yes he does, but the rules allow for a change of path, if the player has exactly the right cards to follow a new one...


Quote:
Each player is dealt 6 cards, which they may inspect, before each declaring their path. The players may choose to stick or stray from their path. If at the end of the game they attain their path with 6 or less of the cards in their hand (Lot), the player then receives points to double their path's value. Straying from your chosen path is only recommended if the player holds a higher hand than double their path's value.


So a change in cards does not necessarily mean the hand is lost. But, now we know that he has only one path out of this, and he has lost the world card, which he was willing to give up (the card he received as a swap was not the card he wanted). However, what we don't know, crucially, is WHICH CARDS MAKE WHICH PATHS?
Mathematics should help to a certain extent, I think. Maybe.....

Ooh, hang on, just to make it a bit more complicated (as if we need that, lol!) If He holds a new path that is worth TWICE the path he had before... If we can work out, or find out what he had, including the World card, if he is having to change his path, his new path must be worth double his old path for him to win.
We also need to work out the clues we have been given. The Wedgewood plate with it's chariot, is that a clue to a card that MH has in his possession? Are we supposed to be looking at the Alice T@rot? If we did, would that. Wukka, make the little pink birds relevant? ( Twee(t)ledum & Twee(t)ledee aka The Lovers) The Cheshire Cat mug, The Emperor?

Arrgh, I'm rambling, but, I'm using this post as a brainstorming session, I hope you don't mind!

And as Chelec reminds us, we don't have to have 6 cards, just the correct amount of cards to complete the path. All we really know about the paths are their names & scores, not which particular cards make up the path. eugh, I'm taking myself round in circles now!

I'm also wondering ( what is up with my brain tonight?!) About the little cabinet that BatGirl received. Does that represent the locked cabinet at MA Books? Should we be asking Alice to have a closer look at it?

OK, think I'm done now, feeling sleepy at last!
xx

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:39 pm
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veebee
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 551

 		For some reason, this is looking like an important quote from MA to me:

Quote:
The venue for finding the next card is hard to conceive. It could, after all, be anywhere. It is everywhere. But then, sometimes one can't see the forest for the trees.


I don't know why, maybe the language? Venue? Conceive? It just sounds a bit odd to me. Could he be setting us up for another live event? And how could he think it is so difficult, if he doesn't even know what the card is? It is everywhere. What is? Love? Life? Death?

No, I definitely need sleep now, I'm sure I'll have some more strange ramblings to share tomorrow!!

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:56 pm
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CCS
Boot

Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 69

 		M-A's Hand So Far
I think we know some things about the five cards M-A has so far. I think the E. European woman gave him the World (21). "The world span." "21 Steps".

I think it's possible that MJ's Journal gives us a second. I thought the Moon ("moon-song"), but there's also "19", and the Moon is 18. Just not sure about that one.

From the third story we learned he has the Hermit (9). ("Spinankle")

I think we were supposed to get something from the MythObs book, and I read several times the account involving the magician, but I couldn't clearly determine what M-A was given. Perhaps there was something I missed.

That's four (maybe).

We have two more stories to go. I presume we will get two more clues.

We also know that the World was exchanged for the Fool (0).

M-A was clearly pursuing a strategy of accumulating high value cards, to try to make 100 (Passage). He now believes that he cannot achieve that goal and must change strategy. Is he correct?

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:36 pm
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CCS
Boot

Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 69

 		Go Tell Alice
Our last message from M-A specifically asked for Alice's help. Has anyone passed that along to her? Has anyone shared with her the "Rules of the Game"? I think we need to do that.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:45 pm
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veebee
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 551

 		Changing path
I think we know that MA was close to having to change paths a while ago.
From MythObs:

Quote:
"Let's hope you're not too late."
"Too late for what?"
"What do you want?"
I frowned. "Safe passage?"
The little man winked at me. "You might be too late for that already, d'you see?


And now we know he has lost the World card. That, to me, rules out the Passage path, so yes CCS, I think he has had to change strategies. It would also appear he was given 2 cards in MythObs " Take a card and card" "And I did"
He was being the magician, with all the symbology, including the 4 elements which are usually depicted on that card. Does this mean either:
A) He swapped the Magician card at that point, somehow receiving 2 cards for his efforts? or
B) The Magician cards was one of the ones he received at that point?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:04 am
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veebee
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 551

 		Mirages
Just a little fyi from the UnMuseum:

Quote:
A mirage can also be the result of a temperature boundary between layers of air in the sky. If the boundary is not flat, but curved, the mirage will not only display a mirror image, but act as a lens, and magnify distant images.


PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:18 am
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veebee
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 551
chelec wrote:
I try and do another post, re-read the rules, correct the old one and you all point out my mistake before I get to the new info!.

Let me if I can type this scenario before it gets lost:

He has 6 cards. He goes into a duel and wins, so he gets to be the Taker.

The duel cards are discarded.

He has 5 cards and needs a specific one to make up the 100. He asks for it.

The mysterious person plays him for the fool, and takes his World Card. When you do the swap, you place the cards blind - so he did swap the World Card deliberately?

So we have to work out what he asked for, which gives us an indication of the value he was after. We then need to work out which card to discard and which to go after. And what new card he got?

oohhh. my head hurts


If we are to assume this, we also know that the mysterious stranger must be going for a high scoring hand too. If MA is to beat that hand, he must do it with 6 cards or less in order to have the hand value doubled, and he should, if we are to go by the recommendations in the rules, now be on the way to holding a hand that is already worth double the original path he declared

Quote:
If at the end of the game they attain their path with 6 or less of the cards in their hand (Lot), the player then receives points to double their path's value. Straying from your chosen path is only recommended if the player holds a higher hand than double their path's value.


This would be impossible if he originally declared the Path of Passage.
Also, both players will now have another random card from the deck, as after the Duel and swap, both players take another card to bring their number of cards back up to six again.

Also(!) Yes, we do know that MA now owns the Fool card, as the fool is the only card that can be given as a substitute for the one the taker asked for. Otherwise the Giver must decline to swap.

Does that make sense?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:38 am
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veebee
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 551

 		slight aside..
Also interesting to note that MA has given up The World voluntarily, both the card in the swap, and the physical World by going through the mirror.

OOh, Mirrors! The points values of the cards could conceivably be reversed, ie. The World is worth 0 and the Fool is worth 21, as he is playing on the Other Side.....
.....wouldn't that be a pain!
Twisted Evil

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:11 am
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IngyW
Veteran

Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 90
Location: Oxofrdshire, UK
veebee wrote:

OOh, Mirrors! The points values of the cards could conceivably be reversed, ie. The World is worth 0 and the Fool is worth 21, as he is playing on the Other Side.....
.....wouldn't that be a pain!
Twisted Evil


Noooooo!

Smile

I think he meant to give away the World card to swap it for something.... but I could be wrong.... the rules change meaning for me every time I read them!
Could some people get together and try to play a game themselves (preferably in a room wih no mirrors! Laughing ) having a go at the game firsthand might help with understanding the rules.

Also is anyone else worried about Alice? She hasn't updated her blog for a couple of days now.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:53 am
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ambien
Boot

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 34

 		Right. I thought I'd try and summarise what we know about the Tarot game so far:

1. We're pretty certain that Marsh-Ayre needs the cards for the Path of Passage to escape the mirror - this is the highest scoring path, worth 100 points.

2. We're assuming that to reach this path, he needs 6 Major Arcana cards whose values add up to exactly 100 points (it would be impossible to do this with fewer than 6 cards).

3. We think he's only got 5 cards in his hand - he says he's one card short of a hand in his Spinankle post.

4. He's given away the World and he has the Fool plus 4 other cards.

In his latest update he says:

Quote:
And now they have made a fool of me, I cannot reach the path I was seeking. I do not know what card to look for next, what combination would give me anything of value. Can you help me?


So I've done some calculating, and by my reckoning there are 7 combinations of cards which would add up to 100 (not including the World card, worth 21 points):

1. 20 (Judgement) + 19 (the Sun) + 18 (the Moon) + 17 (the Star) + 16 (the Tower) + 10 (The Wheel of Fortune) = 100
2. 20 + 19 + 18 + 17 + 15 (the Devil) + 11 (Justice) = 100
3. 20 + 19 + 18 + 17 + 14 (Temperence) + 12 (the Hanged Man) = 100
4. 20 + 19 + 18 + 16 + 15 + 12 = 100
5. 20 + 19 + 18 + 16 + 14 + 13 (Death) = 100
6. 20 + 19 + 17 + 16 + 15 + 13 = 100
7. 20 + 18 + 17 + 16 + 15 + 14 = 100

As far as I can tell, the only card he HAS to have (assuming he can't get the World back) is Judgement for 20 points. Maybe he should look for this next? Do you think this is right? Should we try and get Alice to pass this on to him?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:27 am
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veebee
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 551

 		I agree, he was definitely giving the World card away as a swap on purpose, through choice. And we also know that he didn't want The Fool, because that has now scuppered his plans.
It is conceivable that he was looking for The Wheel of Fortune card, which the He/She would represent:
Quote:
..the completed cycle balancing both male and female characteristics in perfect control.


If, we think he was going for the path of passage, that would mean he would hold the following cards (I think someone pointed this out, AP?)
Judgment 20
The Sun 19
The Moon 18
The Star 17
The Tower 16

= 90

Obtaining The Wheel of Fortune, worth 10, would have completed his Path.

Surely, though, He holds the Path of Kingship, with 90 points? Unless, and this could be the most frustrating part.. You MUST own specific cards for the Path you wish to follow. This means we are missing a vital portion of the Rules.

Grrr!

EDIT: Didn't we determine that he holds the Hermit card early on?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:37 am
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