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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[Chat] Ariadne 3-17 (Re: Personality Test)
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joeyhess
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Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 60

 		Re: Test Strategy
AUZ505 wrote:
I would like to suggest another test strategy:


I agree, the grouping seems to be there for a reason.

This would imply there should be no overlapping pairs in any of the groups. (Eg, #33 and #32 can't both be DIKAIOSUNE.)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:56 pm
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HitsHerMark
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 		Okay, here's an update.

I IM'ed Ariadne about Sapagoo's suggestion that the 6 TAs take the test blind (ha ha) to see what rises to the surface. She suggested instead that the 6 of them (the ones who can read English that is) take the test AFTER we create a key to test how accurate our key is.

When I suggested to her that creating the key would mean I couldn't take the test she said this...

Quote:
ariadnelost:
oh no! well you know what!
take the test now!!
before you score it!!


Hits:
I suspect I'm MYTHOPOEIA but...
Wow. That's a great idea.


ariadnelost:
it looks like groups of 3s right?

maybe if you just pick your favorite from each group
that way you can know what you would really answer before you reverse enginere it


So I think this confirms what AZU505 is saying.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:02 pm
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Trustiva
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 		Re: Test Strategy
AUZ505 wrote:
I would like to suggest another test strategy:

If people should judge how well one "question" fit (1-6) I guess this will lead to a quite uniformly distributed result, because all things are positive and it is hard to make small relative judgements.

So my suggestion:
Keep the grouping like it is. People have to decide which statement of a group fits best to their character. Then count the "checked" statements.

[...]

Because there are 11 questions there should be one winner. But this has to be checked somehow. I will try to find out, if there can be a draw. BTW trying to avoid a draw can give a hint how the attributes are distributed.

[Edit] 11 questions of course


The listing like it is right now does not make sense. The three "answers" in every block are too different. But nonetheless you maybe could find always 3 somewhere in the 33 that would make sense together.

But I'd just say: Give everyone alle the 33 and let them say y/n to it. And the calculation behind it spits out the answer(=strength). Of course we had to make the calculation...

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:03 pm
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Tenchizard
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 		Dikaiosune got lost in translation or somewhere near... here is my original choices for it:
DIKAIOSUNE
I like being in control.
I relate well with people.
I believe that I have a strong goal in a life.
When I plan, I make sure I succeed.
I help others cooperate well.


About the calculations... maybe we can make 11 groups of 3 choices more or less related... I'll try to see what I get

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:07 pm
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Shad0
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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 		Re: Test Strategy
Re: reverse engineering
AUZ505 wrote:
Keep the grouping like it is. People have to decide which statement of a group fits best to their character. Then count the "checked" statements.

I like it. It makes more sense than my original thought, because it takes into account the fact that the questions are arranged in groups of three. So:

Question No. 1
I like being in control. (DIKAIOSUNE)
I believe that everyone's opinion is important. (SOPHROSUNE)
I relate well with people. (CHARITON)

Question No. 2
I approach a life with adventure. (THUMOS)
I love to make other people happy. (CHARITON)
I am an original thinker. (MYTHOPOEIA)

Question No. 3
I hate to see somebody suffer, even my worst enemy. (CHARITON)
I believe that I have a strong goal in a life. (DIKAIOSUNE)
I am always inquisitive. (SOFIA)

Question No. 4
I am extremely loyal. (CHARITON)
I like defeating obstacles. (THUMOS)
I like to clarify matters to others. (SOFIA)

Question No. 5
I can create order out of chaos. (DIKAIOSUNE)
I am optimistic about the future. (MYTHOPOEIA)
I am a very careful person. (SOPHROSUNE)

Question No. 6
I can empathize with others. (CHARITON)
I have a huge imagination. (MYTHOPOEIA)
I do not yield. (THUMOS)

Question No. 7
I like to have all the facts. (SOFIA)
Other lands and cultures fascinate me. (MYTHOPOEIA)
I often help to retain harmony in my group. (SOPHROSUNE)

Question No. 8
I am never too busy to help a friend. (CHARITON)
People describe me as full of energy. (THUMOS)
I always try to see the big picture. (SOPHROSUNE)

Question No. 9
Others come to me for advice. (SOFIA)
When I plan, I make sure I succeed. (DIKAIOSUNE)
Even if I don't like someone, I deal with them fairly. (SOPHROSUNE)

Question No. 10
I prefer action to a words. (THUMOS)
I help others cooperate well. (SOPHROSUNE)
I believe that everything has a reason. (SOFIA)

Question No. 11
I make wise decisions. (SOFIA)
I always see the beauty around me. (MYTHOPOEIA)
I am never bored. (DIKAIOSUNE)

Conveniently enough, that gives six questions for Chariton, five for Dikaiosune, five for Mythopoeia, six for Sofia, six for Sophrosune, and five for Thumos, which is a fairly even split. I don't like that #2 and #6 appear to ask about the same three agonothetai, though -- that would make one of those group of questions entirely redundant, so it shouldn't be correct.

(It occurs to me that a more reliable way to categorize these statements would be to ask Aridne, Markus, Diego, Noriko, Mei Hui, and Lucie to take the test. After all, we already know what their results ought to be. Edit: And apparently sapagoo already suggested that, so never mind.)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:07 pm
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Tenchizard
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 		I like both your choices and the idea of making them take the test. If you don't mind, I'll translate the test to spanish and send it to Diego.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:14 pm
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brodie
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 		So are we taking the test in the A, B, C format ie. picking one out of every group of three? Or answering y/n to every line?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:22 pm
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Tenchizard
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 		I've just sent Diego the test, divided in the groups of 3 choices as they came in the document.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:28 pm
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Shad0
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: [Chat] Ariadne 3-17 (Re: Personality Test)
Re: testing
Tenchizard wrote:
I like both your choices and the idea of making them take the test. If you don't mind, I'll translate the test to spanish and send it to Diego.

If you are addressing me, I certainly don't mind... but I'm also certain that my assignments are not entirely correct. No group of three questions should have the same assignments as any other group of three questions, so #2, #6, or both must be wrong. Others may be wrong as well.

Also, as HitsHerMark pointed out above, having the six take the test wasn't "my" idea -- apparently sapagoo came up with it first. HHM has already spoken with Ariadne about it, and she approves.

(By the way, having come up with an answer key did not prevent me from taking the test. Sofia narrowly edged out Chariton, which narrowly edged out Sophrosune.)
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:29 pm
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joeyhess
Boot


Joined: 15 Mar 2008
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 		I took Shad0's test above and came out with 4 points DIKAIOSUNE, 3 for MYTHOPOEIA and THUMOS, and 1 for SOPHROSUNE (question 8 ).
If I had answered #8 for THUMOS instead, it would have been a draw.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:31 pm
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Elizabeth123
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 		My concern is that if they're bunched into threes this way, some won't be applicable to the players answering the question. Most attributes seem applicable to more than one agon...For example, "I am always inquisitive" and "I am an original thinker" could fit with a few of the agons. So...Would it make more sense to bunch them such that each set of 3 would have one right answer for each agon? And then we could make sure that each agon picks the right attribute--the one of the three we think applies the most to them?

To do this, we'd work the other way around--Take each attribute and decide all of the agons it might apply to. For example "I am an original thinker" could potentially apply to SOFIA, DIKAIOSUNE, SOPHROSUNE and MYTHOPOEIA. These then would need to be spread into various questions, such that if the applicable Agon chose this trait over the others, we'd know we had distributed them correctly.

It seems like a better quiz (and puzzle) to me this way. This is how real personality tests are graded as well...

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:34 pm
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Shad0
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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 		Re: [Chat] Ariadne 3-17 (Re: Personality Test)
Re: reverse engineering
Elizabeth123 wrote:
My concern is that if they're bunched into threes this way, some won't be applicable to the players answering the question.

That actually happens quite a lot in personality tests. Ever taken one? You're asked to pick the sentence with which you most agree, not the only one with which you agree. Sometimes you agree with several, and have to pick the best; sometimes you don't agree with any of them all that strongly.

Elizabeth123 wrote:
Would it make more sense to bunch them such that each set of 3 would have one right answer for each agon?

The reason I prefer AUZ505's approach is that it accounts for the fact that the original document has the questions in groups of three. I believe that must have some significance. If we were meant to arrange the questions ourselves, why wouldn't we have been given one long list of 33 questions?

(There's also the fact that, according to HitsHerMark, Ariadne appears to have explicitly approved the bunches-of-three approach.)
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:42 pm
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mr.judkins
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 		Yes she has... I've been chatting with her too.

Will post a copy of our conversation once it's over...

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:43 pm
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joeyhess
Boot


Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 60
Elizabeth123 wrote:
My concern is that if they're bunched into threes this way, some won't be applicable to the players answering the question.


I think the way these tests work psychologically is that the statements are general enough that the test taker can always apply at least one to themselves, even if it's a stretch. For example, someone who knows they're often bored, and don't always see beauty in the world, will at least think that they often make wise decisions. I picked that choice even though I know I'm no paragon of wisdom.

That's my impression having taken similar tests before, such as Myer's-Briggs.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:45 pm
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Avatrix
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 413
Location: Boston, MA

 		After telling Ariadne that we were making progress, she had this to say to me:
Quote:
ariadnelost: that's great! although i was just chatting with mr.judkins and we think we might be missing a question!!
he pointed out that 3 x 11 = 33 and that's not divisible by 6
but one more, and we would have 3 x 12, or 6 x 6 and that make so much more sense. so we were just chatting about how to find the "lost" question
and laughing about how they always seem be losing stuff. ha ha. first they lost the ring, then the lost me and the others...



PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:47 pm
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