View topic - [ARTIFACT]Babel Syndrome

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Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring

[ARTIFACT]Babel Syndrome

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lindoriel379
Boot

Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Jerusalem, Israel

I wasn't sure where to ask this, but I have a translation-related question. I'm trying to find other FTLR players near me, and have been google-ing around in Hebrew to see what I can come up with. However, there are many different words in Hebrew for "ring":
ring - what you wear on your finger
ring - for a sporting event
ring - a circle of people or objects
You get the idea. Do any other languages have the same problem? If so, which word for ring do you use when translating?

_________________
"Reality continues to ruin my life." C&H

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:56 am

limako
Boot

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Amherst, MA

Great question

This is a great question! We know we are trying to find the lost ring, because it was written in Esperanto as "trovu la ringon perditan". I went the shelf and picked up my trusty Plena Illustrita Vortaro to see what meanings the word "ring" has in Esperanto -- because its similar, but probably not the same as English. Assuming the people writing in Esperanto knew what they were talking about, it might tell us something.

There are 8 definitions: 1) circular piece of hard material, 2) circular piece of expensive material used as an ornament, 3) something having more-or-less the form or shape of a ring (drawings, coils of a snake, etc), 4) fairy circle (of mushrooms), 5) sometimes meaning "cycle", 6) (mathematical) a group together with two operations, addition and multiplication, that fulfill certain requirements, 7) a diacritical mark used in some languages, and Cool

the area circumscribed for boxing matches and the like.

I guess it doesn't really help us much. Note that it *doesn't* include a group of people like we might use in English (ie, a "ring of thieves"). I don't know if this tells us anything or not.

For a group or circle of people in Esperanto, one is more likely to say "rondo" probably because there is a famous poem that made the allusion to "rondo familia" (the "family circle").

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:47 pm

Hikaro
Boot

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Oregon, United States

Quote:

limako
Denaskaj parolantoj

Quote:

brodie wrote:
chid12, isn't Esperanto a created language? Ergo, there are no native speakers. Except, I guess, the creator?

The creator created the language and didn't grow up speaking it. There are people that did, however -- they're called "denaskaj parolantoj" and there are several thousand around the world. It turns out that Esperanto often causes people to fall in love, get married, and have kids. Frequently, these families use Esperanto as the first language of the home, because the parents share no other common language. People sometimes call Esperanto "Edz-peranto" (meaning "marriage broker") because it results in so many weddings. Here's an article from our local paper that mentions a family here in Massachusetts that speaks Esperanto at home. http://amherstbulletin.com/story/id/81578/

I think Wikipedia estimated there are between 200-2000 denaskaj parolantoj, so the chances of one of those 200-2000 playing the game out of 6+ billion people on the planet is pretty slim.

Really, honestly, you do NOT need to be a native speaker to do a great translating job. Proficiency, definitely, is required, and if we could be blessed with a native speaker to come and do Esperanto translations, then that would be great. But keep in mind that being bilingual does NOT mean you are a good translator. My mom's a teacher, and she said that she had Hispanic kids in her class that could speak Spanish (natively) and spoke English well, but could not translate for their (Spanish-speaking-only) parents during parent-teacher conferences.

And Zamenhof could NOT speak Esperanto natively. (By definition, a native speaker had to have learned the language as a small child). He probably spoke it with an accent.

~Hikaro

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:35 am

Media-Wolf
Boot

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 13

Quote:

There are 8 definitions: 1) circular piece of hard material, 2) circular piece of expensive material used as an ornament, 3) something having more-or-less the form or shape of a ring (drawings, coils of a snake, etc), 4) fairy circle (of mushrooms), 5) sometimes meaning "cycle", 6) (mathematical) a group together with two operations, addition and multiplication, that fulfill certain requirements, 7) a diacritical mark used in some languages, and the area circumscribed for boxing matches and the like.

Originaly thought it was interesting that several definitions fit what we are working on.
But then realised that really only one of those definitions really seems to fit with what we've unearthed so far, Definition 5. The others remain possibilities (although the likely hood of this involving a fairy circle at any point are pretty slim). However 5 fit's to a T on multiple levels, the cycle of the "lost game", as well as the cycle of the expanding and contracting "worlds". So maybe we've already found the lost ring... we just need to make it work now... (on the bright side at least they didn't leave the instruction making to the people who write the instructions for Ikea... we'd never crack that) Just a thought. [/quote]

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:29 am

limako
Boot

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Amherst, MA

Media-Wolf wrote:

then realised that really only one of those definitions really seems to fit with what we've unearthed so far, Definition 5.

Well, definition 3 can fit almost anything. Definition 3 could mean a drawing, a circle of yarn on the ground, a circle of people -- anything in the form of a ring can be called a ring with definition 3.

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:08 am

Elizabeth123
Decorated

Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 285

limako wrote:

Media-Wolf wrote:

then realised that really only one of those definitions really seems to fit with what we've unearthed so far, Definition 5.

Yeah, even something more theoretical, like a ring of ideas, a ring of thoughts, a ring of people with certain ideals, a ring of worlds coming together for a certain cause...I think this is the right definition, actually.

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:34 am

Junesun
Boot

Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Berlin, Germany

Elizabeth123 wrote:

I doubt that, because for that I would use "aro" - which is also an incredibly often-used suffix:
amiko - friend amikaro - circle of friends
fisho - fish fisharo - school of fish
ideo - idea idearo - ring of ideas
homo - person homaro - group of people; mankind

By the way, I really like the Esperanto word "homarano" . The suffix -an- is the opposite of -ar-, going from a big group to a member. Klubo - club, klubano - member of a club. So "homarano" translates to something like "member of mankind". Smile

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:29 pm

rupaZero
Boot

Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Cambridge

On the subject of translations ...

I don't understand how there can be a disparity between translations posted on the wiki and translations posted on the forums. How come the translators aren't posting their translations in both places?

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:14 am

limako
Boot

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Amherst, MA

Re: On the subject of translations ...

rupaZero wrote:

How come the translators aren't posting their translations in both places?

It would probably be better if people just posted links to the wiki in the forum once the translation is ready for people to look at it.

Early in the game, the players seemed to be asking for the translations to be posted directly in the forum and so people were doing that. Now that the players have acknowledged that the wiki exists in their world, we can probably just post links.

You'll always get differences because the translation doesn't all happen at once: people make a version and then other people come in and fix stuff. Some of the translations have been pretty good and others have been poor (at first), but they always get better as people work on them.

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:15 am

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