unforum

[Will 2.0]

[Vecheeso]

As a current PM, and generally new to PMing, this is very hard on the grassroots type ARGs in development, because people see another trailhead, and now they are filled with doubt as to if it will implode or not. I mean at least a few players have jumped on me for making a post with the words 'test run' in PM Help area.
The fact of the matter is, before all these imploding games, u were generally guaranteed to be fulfilled by the ARG experience, and now, people are filled with doubt and worry whether to get into an ARG or not, and fankly, this sucks.
the thing is, a few people making ARGs and imploding them without involving the players as to why, is ruining a lot of veterans of the genre against new grassroots ARGs. I hope that more and more grassroots ARGs will come out that DO NOT implode, to stave off this infection of mistrust. I am currently working on a grassroots ARG and, as I said, at even the scent of the words 'test run' veterans turn up their noses.
The truth is, you can have test runs, by making ver small ARGs, a few sites long, and make sure you let people know its just a test to understand the players, and that ur looking for peoples thoughts on what you did.
Also, I think ARGs can be released in parts, but if you are on hiatus to make more of the ARG, or to change content to better suit players, MAKE A POST! People would rather you post that you are working on the ARG, and not just going to let it implode and do another project.
Ok, sorry, thats my rant, thanks for listening...

[Rogi Ocnorb]

I'm definitely not the most "veteran" of players around here, but I have been around long enough to verify that imploding games in hardly a new phenomenon. It's a problem that has sparked more bile-filled discussion than I'd care to remember.

You'd think there would be a way to gauge the timing on this and apply additional caution. But it doesn't seem to have a real periodicity. Maybe a little more of it occurs just after schools start letting out. And some upswing around Christmas and after new years.
But, for me, it seems I am more cautious during that period when a popular game is ending or has just ended. That's when the most new people show up and decide they can slap together a campaign without thinking about what it really entails or knowing what a game really is.

To paraphrase Scotty:
"Burn me once... Shame on you!
Burn me 347 times... Shame on me!"

[LandMASTER!]

So, sort of OT here, but I'm just clarifying: shorter game does not necessarily mean bad game, correct?

I have no intention of imploding what I am currently PMing, but due to the nature of the game I am running (if it even qualifies as an ARG) I can't see it lasting for as long as bigger games.

[rowan]

[LandMASTER!]

Oh good. Got that covered.

And you live and learn, so games people run get better over time of course. ^^

Anyways, sorry for being OT.

[konamouse]

[buff]

And just to spin that line of thought a bit further - I would love to see some shorter games that doesn't require huge amount of spare time - just some short, sweet, well-designed and enjoyable puzzles, some minimum interaction and some intelligent story

There is absolutely nothing wrong in a game that only lasts for 2-4 days, a week max.

And on the subject of the thread:

Imploding your game, regardless of purpose, is bad karma, but if it happens - your DESIGN has been tried, and found wanting. Imploding your game without playing it straight with your players and tell them - "Sorry guys n' gals, but I can't do it" is just showing disrespect to the people who believed in you, and spent their hard-earned time on your creation, and then YOU have been tested and found wanting.

Don't.

Edited to clarify my point.

[rowan]

[buff]

I really think that depends. For me, that wouldn't be a problem. I would love the Snack-version of a game; short, sweet and not too much to chew.

But I'm sure it would be possible to design a game which is both short, and doesn't require you to check for updates all the time. Not sure it would be great, but it would probably be worth playing.

And yes, I agree. What happened to update schedules anyway?

[konamouse]

Real life doesn't always work on a schedule - so with an ARG that is trying to blur the lines between fiction and reality - update schedules are very imposed.

A 2-3 day game would barely have time for the players to congregate. A 1-2 week is possible, but you would probably see something new every day.

There would be another advantage for creating a very fictitious world that we have found a portal allowing us interaction with characters in another dimension/universe. And in this alternate reality time is different for them compared to us.

So I get credit for this idea: Perhaps 1 day for them is 7 days for us. For them it is daily interaction but for us it is once a week. There is your planned update schedule that still holds to the TINAG concept for the characters. Gives the PMs time to formulate email responses and get blog posts or videos or whatever they need to drive the game forward. Gives players time to solve puzzles, respond to characters and plan for regular updates. So a two week adventure/mission for the characters would be 4 months of play time. If that's too slow, you can half the time (1 day for characters = 3 days for players; or whatever time frame you want).

[Silent|away]

One person I really relied on is a person who has experience with Chaotic Fiction, Das Kasier/"This is how the world ends...". I am going to quote the advice he game me over imploding games.

[Euchre]

Not being any sort of PM ever in any sense myself, I found the title of this thread interesting. I admit I didn't read every post in full, but I see much discussion of the type of CF in a more 'traditional' sense, and many of the more 'homebrewed' games. My experience in this arena is fairly short, but I can say one thing in terms of trends with these CF experiences - the 'games' aren't just being created by hobbyists anymore, and not just for narrow markets.

When I came to this thread I expected to see mention of Ethan Haas as an example of a 'game' that imploded. I've seen no mention, and all the talk seems to be about games intentionally folded. Granted, folding a game is a kind of implosion, but I think crash and burns are too. What I see as the implosions of note are the 'games' that are largely driven by a desire to leverage the CF genre for profit. Ethan Haas is an excellent example of this. It seems that the people wanting the CF and the ones running it couldn't really understand what the conventional ARG fans wanted, and thus you get the crash and burn that occurred. The GM promotion (I've forgotten the name) was another example of a bad move from an online CF to a promotion.

On another front, I can cite my experience with EidolonTLP as an example of a CF that imploded because the author hadn't really thought out the details, and failed to line everything up right. The one thing it did have going for it was a very well blurred line between the reality and the fiction, but in the midst of that the point was lost. Many different expectations arose, and many different reactions resulted.

I think the grand synthesis of all this is that to prevent an implosion of any kind, you need to get your formula right so that your audience develops the right expectations of your CF. When players are confused and things get erratic, they loose interest and even lash out at the PMs. If you've structured your CF right there is some 'axis' upon which the whole will never deviate, and your players will be led along that. They may not perceive the axis, but they will feel grounded as they travel along it.

[konamouse]

I'm not sure if Ethan Haas "imploaded" as much as it was designed to do one thing and we (players) expected something much much more. The designers of the marketing for this promotion had no idea how that the ARGish audience would grab onto it and look for a story that really never existed.

Eidolon is probably a better example. No way to tell what the PM was trying to accomplish but it's a shame it didn't go anywhere. It had potential and it looked like someone put in some effort in the setup.

As more and more marketing/advertising firms glom onto the idea of ARG and try to incorporate it into their attempts to reach the public (and hold our attention) they will further stretch the genre. And maybe dilute the story with just puzzles and characters with their only purpose to just lead us by the nose into the world of a particular product. The story will be background only, and the players will really only be an audience, not a participant. So it's really not an ARG, not really an ARE, just an ARA (alternate reality advertisement)

[buff]

Hmm...
Konamouse, that splitted temporal narrative is a quite interesting idea. Anyone know if something like it has been done?

*visualizes the amount of notes required for the PMs not to be confused themselves*