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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[BLOG] Ariadne and Kai give us the...Pan-Cosmologizer
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brodie
Decorated


Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 185
Location: Bathurst, Australia

sapagoo wrote:
double post.

Apparently the Pan-Galactic Cosmologizer goes online to check for updates. I'm now getting the following message
"THERE IS A NEW VERSION OF THIS APPLICATION AVAILABLE. WOULD YOU LIKE TO UPGRADE"
Then it downloads the zip file... you unzip the zip file, get another .air file which is now 4k bigger.

I double click the .air file, and it says - You have .8 installed, would you like to install .9 (more or less).
I click REPLACE and...
I have no idea what has changed.


There are now little dotted lines surrounding each of the world-type maps. Razz

Okay. I took a day off yesterday and come back and suddenly there's a discussion on the Pan-C. *claps excitedly* Seeing as I feel like this is my special project Razz I'm going to try to be especially active with it.

Madrid, London, Boston, Rio de Janeiro, Toronto and Copenhagen.
Warren, Munich, Toulouse, Oran, Madison and Brasilia.

Postcard 1 wrote:
Estamos aqui (we are here) 40.4167, -3.7033
y aqui (and here) 51.4646, -0.1705
y aqui (and here) 55.6763, 12.5681
y aqui (and here) 42.3589, -71.0568
y aqui (and here) 43.6702, -79.3868
y aqui (and here) -22.9035, -43.2096


Postcard 2 wrote:
N 41º 14.172, W080º 48.76824
N48º 8,39994, E011º 34.8
N43º37.19994, E001º27.0
N35º40.99986, W000º36
N43º4.452, W089º24.039
S15º46.8, W047º54.6


I've been a-thinking about these co-ordinates. So, according to my theory, the first co-ordinate (Madrid/Warren) is where we are in Gaea. The second thru sixth co-ordinates are where Madrid/Warren are in other worlds.

This means that if the zero longitude from Gaea (@ Greenwich, London) matches up with the zero longitude of the other world-types, we can semi-accurately plot the co-ordinates on each of the maps. Ariadne seems unsure about whether the Pan-C is perfectly aligned - ie. she doesn't think that the Greenwich Meridian on the bottom Gaea map lines up with the zero longitude of the other maps on top.

So for now, I think we might have to do just a really, really rough approximation of where Madrid/Warren are on other world-types, match each pair of co-ordinates to a specific map and then see if we can find the zero longitude and finally match the co-ordinates up properly. That sound like a plan?

... Do you follow? I'm not sure I'm making myself clear. Tell me if I'm not. It makes sense in my head, but my head is not your head.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:55 pm
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DavFlamerock
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 937
Location: H2Oville, ME, USA

That's what I was thinking, but I had no way of knowing where the equator/prime meridian were on the other worlds. Hence the general confusion. :/

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:05 pm
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Lysithea
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Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 468
Location: Australia

brodie wrote:
So for now, I think we might have to do just a really, really rough approximation of where Madrid/Warren are on other world-types, match each pair of co-ordinates to a specific map and then see if we can find the zero longitude and finally match the co-ordinates up properly. That sound like a plan?
Yes. That seems to be what Ariadne is suggesting.

The Pan-Cosmologizer is too arbitrary for any kind of accuracy anyhow. Sad

I'm guessing that the way to match each pair of co-ordinates to a world type will be to match the "distance"* between Madrid/Warren on Gaea to the "distance"* of each co-ordinate pair on the other world types.
*distance as measured in pixels, not to be confused with real world distances.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:07 am
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AUZ505
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1599
Location: Germany

DavFlamerock wrote:
That's what I was thinking, but I had no way of knowing where the equator/prime meridian were on the other worlds. Hence the general confusion. :/


You do not need them. Two matching pair of coordinates are enough to line up the two worlds as I suggestion in my pdf.

Was my description to complicated, because nobody reacted to it up to now and some of the actual discussions is somehow "explained" in the document.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:04 am
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unagi
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Japan

Iberia in Early Jurassic Pangaea
http://www.mantleplumes.org/CAMP.html
Of cource nobody knows whether the Pangaea in parallel worlds corresponds to this Pangaea.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:04 am
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Lysithea
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Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 468
Location: Australia

Has anyone made much progress on plotting the two sets of postcard locations on all the different world types? (with the exception of Madrid and Warren)

[meta]I don't particularly like this puzzle, which is why I haven't been posting about it much. It doesn't seem to correspond well to spherical planets.[/meta]

The pdf does explain itself pretty well, but I get the impression that as a group, there is uncertainty about how to accomplish the next step.
AUZ505 wrote:
We should first start with matching loaction pairs (e.g. London/Munich) with worlds. Any ideas?
I disagree. I think that the location pairs should be matched up with worlds after 10 co-ordinates have been plotted on every world type.

Step 1. Locate Madrid and Warren on Gaea. COMPLETE

Step 2. Locate the 10 other co-ordinates (London + Munich, Copenhagen + Toulouse etc), on Numa & Pangaea &... PENDING

Step 3. Use Kai's program to figure out which co-ordinate pair goes with which world type.

Step 4. Use Kai's program to line up all of the world types and generate a solution to send to Ariadne.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:47 am
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unagi
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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Lysithea wrote:
Step 2. Locate the 10 other co-ordinates (London + Munich, Copenhagen + Toulouse etc), on Numa & Pangaea &... PENDING

No, we should locate only Warren & Madrid on Numa, Pangaea etc.

And we can start only with Pangaea.

I don't like this kind of things, either, with the same reason as yours. The earh is spherical.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:24 am
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AUZ505
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1599
Location: Germany

I have made a small "tool" that could help to put "madrid/warren" on the different worlds. It is not really a tool. It is just a word doc with screenshots and predefined "madrid/warren" pairs with the distance of the coordiantes from the postcards.

So you can now try to put for each world a "madrid/warren" pair onto the continents. I hope it will work, because I know Word somtimes mix up documents on other computers.
Remark: Do not change the size of the pairs (just rotation and translation allowed)

Problems I still have:
1) Only one "long distance" pair --> probably Nuna
2) But what is with Kondorland? Is Madrid still in the ocean?
3) 4 almost similar distances. How can they be assigned?

At the moment I have not idea how to proceed?

[EDIT] I alread tried to put some pairs into the world - but these are wild guesses Smile
PanCosmologizerTool.doc
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Filename  PanCosmologizerTool.doc 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:03 pm
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danteIL
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Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!


I'm just not getting it. Something is fundamentally wrong in my understanding of what we are supposed to do here.

The maps are stupid. Pan-cosmology is stupid. I am stupid.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:08 pm
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Lysithea
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Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 468
Location: Australia

AUZ505 wrote:
At the moment I have not idea how to proceed?

[EDIT] I alread tried to put some pairs into the world - but these are wild guesses Smile

I like the first picture in your document (Gaea) with the 5 co-ordinate pairs on it. I think the next step is to do the same thing for Numa, Kenorland, Neopangaea, Gondwana and Pangaea. The pictures that Pallada found should help us.

eg We know that Boston is on the east coast of North America. So, we need to find where that point would be on Numa, Kenorland, Neopangaea, Gondwana and Pangaea.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:00 am
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AUZ505
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1599
Location: Germany

Lysithea wrote:
AUZ505 wrote:
At the moment I have not idea how to proceed?

[EDIT] I alread tried to put some pairs into the world - but these are wild guesses Smile

I like the first picture in your document (Gaea) with the 5 co-ordinate pairs on it. I think the next step is to do the same thing for Numa, Kenorland, Neopangaea, Gondwana and Pangaea. The pictures that Pallada found should help us.

eg We know that Boston is on the east coast of North America. So, we need to find where that point would be on Numa, Kenorland, Neopangaea, Gondwana and Pangaea.


We do not have to put all five co-ordinate pairs into the other worlds. Just one for each world (like I tried). And we have to put one of the pairs (e.g. London-Munich) on the places where Madrid and Warren will be on this world. And the problem is to find out which pair goes with whch world.

We do not have to find Boston on the other worlds. Only Madrid and Warren!

Please explain, if someone thinks that my idea is wrong.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:38 am
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Weezel
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Joined: 01 Sep 2006
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Location: National Park, NJ

I don't understand why there is all the rotating of the land masses either. The default locations of the layers seem to match with all the images and articles I've read on supercontinents. None of them seem to indicate that they rotated to.

Once thing to consider with the markups of the Gaea land against the other land is that there is 'extra' land between the continents. So you can't come the same distance from the edges, you have to trow away the extra land sitting between them.

The whole thing is just driving me a little batty, even trying to get a handle on the logistics of it. Why are the cities in the other worlds even named the same thing as ours...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:42 am
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thebruce
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario

well again, this is still my theory - the city names are all on our world, there's no reason to think that these are city names shared among all the alternate realities. What I mean is, these are places listed on our world, but each of places matches matches the same 'place' on each of the worlds.

If, say, we're looking for City A (that spot of the continent for each of the worlds), then that spot on the continent would be where City B, or City C, etc are on our world. If we run a labyrinth at each location on our world, the latitude longitude of each of those locations would point to a spot on other worlds' continents that, were we to align the continents with ours, would all be at the same point on the same continent.

The maps of the other worlds are very, very rough, so certainly we can't be exact in placement, but I think in a way, a solve would be to say we're looking for Warren's location on each world - the other locations on that postcard should match up to location of warren (it's placement on the continent - doesn't matter if that placeis called warren or not) in the other worlds.

So the point about matching distances that's being made, is that since we have two postcards, we have to 'legends' to help ensure accuracy.
We can guess continental positioning for the each location o a postcard, but there's no 'check'. If we assume postcard 1 location 2 is world B, then give that continental orientation, there should be a location on postcard 2 that also matches. If there are, then chances are that continental orientation is valid.

Now this assumes that each continental map diagram uses the same size parameters (mapping style), and it would mean that we'valigned the maps to our continental orientation - not necesarily to each other's. But I think that's the point anyway - so we can run our labyrinths, and synchronize to them.

I dunno, with the addition of this multiverse registrry now, it seems we may have to coordinate labyrinth runs with the other worlds... *sigh* it's just so vague and confusing still at this point. Razz
Certainly more chapters will help clarify anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:32 am
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Weezel
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thebruce wrote:

If, say, we're looking for City A (that spot of the continent for each of the worlds), then that spot on the continent would be where City B, or City C, etc are on our world. If we run a labyrinth at each location on our world, the latitude longitude of each of those locations would point to a spot on other worlds' continents that, were we to align the continents with ours, would all be at the same point on the same continent.



This would assume that if the distance between our London and Warren is X, then the distance between City A (their London counterpart) and City B (their Warren counterpart) is also X.

It's not the name thing that bothers me as much as the location/land mass thing. In order to overlay, we have to assume the distances are the same between.

The problems are that not only is the amount of land mass different between worlds, but the relative position from one city to another is different.

I just don't see how we can overlay with that information.

With a GPS coordinate, you know an absolute position in each world. You will be at exactly that point in each world.

So align 6 GPS coordinates, irregardless of names of cities or distances between them.

We know what our 6 Gaea ones are, but if those same locations are placed on another world, some may be on land, some may be in cities, some may be in the middle of the ocean. I understand that the Codex even says thats why you run multiple locations to synch because not all worlds are going to have the same 6 VIABLE GPS locations as you are.

So I'm not sure that with the PanCosmologizer that we're trying to get all 6 of our locations to line up on 6 land spots on the other 6 land masses.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:13 am
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danteIL
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Just going by the postcards, they both say "We are here.. and here... and here... and here.. and here," which to me suggests (as per brodie) that they are intended to suggest that "We are here in Madrid in this world" and in another world Madrid is "here" and in yet another world Madrid is "here" etc.

So while the numerical coordinates map onto our world, they simply mark the places where synchronization has to take place in order to sync with "Madrid" in these other worlds. That is the source of the reasoning behind trying to identify the locations of Madrid (and Warren) in the other 5 maps.

AUZ505 has the right start, I guess, in trying to find a Madrid-Warren pair in each other world that corresponds to one of the postcard-pairs. There is too much uncertainty in the locations, though, to make it work (for me at least).

I encourage others to add/modify the wiki page that I started: http://olympics.wikibruce.com/PanCosmologizer



A direct appeal to the PMs: Please add a way to place markers directly on the PanCosmologizer!!

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:25 am
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