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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Plots, Puzzles, and Originality
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
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redct
Entrenched


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1233

 		Plots, Puzzles, and Originality
Here's my question: When do you think that more originality in plots and puzzles is appropriate? How much un-originality will you tolerate in a game?

I'm not going to name any names, but lately, a good number of games have been following the same premise in storyline. The same goes with puzzles (I know that this has been discussed before) but the rot-13, hex, translate puzzles are getting a bit tired.
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:08 pm
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natas
PHP Ninja


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 3177
Location: Northwest Indiana

 		Preach on brother, One is starting as we speak. The kidnapper game. again.

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:09 pm
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LordIllidan
Unfettered


Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 737

 		I dunno about that, natas...

If you're talking about the same game I am...

Yeah, the premise is definitely fail, but the characters have actually been rather interesting thus far (Despite being stereotyped as a cheerleader, a geek, etc. etc.). If that keeps up, I really wouldn't mind the fact that they fail in coming up with an original premise.

Plus, it's always great when a PM humors you when you start talking Zombie Apocalypse XD

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:17 pm
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

 		Seems like there are two extreme schools of thought on this:

1) "Hey, looks like there are a lot of ARGs that use ROT-13, Vigenere and stuff. Guess people like that!"

2) "Crikes, every freakin' ARG on the planet has ROT-13, Vigenere and stuff. Hell no I ain't doing that!"

Unfortunately, #1 outnumbers #2 it seems.

To some degree I've done it myself. LGL had it briefly (I used ROT-1), but I felt comfortable in how I justified it; it was meant to be an aptitude test, the only way a highly intelligent, sentient computer system can gauge the abilities of people it seeks guidance from.

My next game might use these encryptions slightly, but I'm doing something completely different in this regard. For obvious reasons, I don't want to elaborate.

As far as plot, yeah, I'm wondering why the sudden fascination with killing off of innocents is coming from. We're on our third ARG in a month that has said "play along or they die." I might have cared for story's sake the first time, but now I couldn't care less if the latest cast of characters was stuffed in to an acid-filled Cuisinart.
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:08 am
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Mar_Vell
Boot


Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 31

 		Honestly, I could deal with the whole unoriginal puzzle solving bit if there were some original and engaging storylines. Sure ARG stands for "alternate reality" games, but does that alternate reality have to be so rediculous and unbelievable?

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:26 am
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LordIllidan
Unfettered


Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 737
Nighthawk wrote:
Seems like there are two extreme schools of thought on this:

1) "Hey, looks like there are a lot of ARGs that use ROT-13, Vigenere and stuff. Guess people like that!"

2) "Crikes, every freakin' ARG on the planet has ROT-13, Vigenere and stuff. Hell no I ain't doing that!"

Unfortunately, #1 outnumbers #2 it seems.

To some degree I've done it myself. LGL had it briefly (I used ROT-1), but I felt comfortable in how I justified it; it was meant to be an aptitude test, the only way a highly intelligent, sentient computer system can gauge the abilities of people it seeks guidance from.

My next game might use these encryptions slightly, but I'm doing something completely different in this regard. For obvious reasons, I don't want to elaborate.

As far as plot, yeah, I'm wondering why the sudden fascination with killing off of innocents is coming from. We're on our third ARG in a month that has said "play along or they die." I might have cared for story's sake the first time, but now I couldn't care less if the latest cast of characters was stuffed in to an acid-filled Cuisinart.


Seriously. It takes all the fun out of watching people die!

/me is totally not a hypocrite, despite his previous post

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:46 am
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Omega
Unfettered


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Utah

 		I've noticed lately that a lot of ARGs are quick to create fictitious people, fake businesses, fake websites, email addresses, blogs, MySpace accounts, etc... But far too few attempt to create an actual world. Sticking too close to reality has become a self-imposed limitation. Granted, it takes a great deal of creativity and extra planning to devise another "world" (i.e. Perplex City), but there are numerous smaller variations a PM can employ to give their ARG an identity of something new and different.

Is there another reason why we don't see many ARGs exploring new realms?
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:31 am
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Omega wrote:
Is there another reason why we don't see many ARGs exploring new realms?

Because then it's just a game, not an ARG. One litmus test is whether or not you can imagine walking down the street and running into a clue, and seriously wonder "Is this for reals?"

But perhaps you were using the looser ARG definition that has evolved into Chaotic Fiction. Games can be immersive, fiction can be interactive, you can play a role or a character, but an ARG encourages you to be yourself in your own world. It can be hard to "explore new realms" and still keep one foot in reality, which is what an ARG should strive to do.

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:13 am
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Will 2.0
Unfictologist


Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 1431
Location: Burlington, Vermont

 		The best ARGs are literally creating an alternate reality in your own reality, what I call unfiction paranoia.
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:59 pm
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990
catherwood wrote:

Because then it's just a game, not an ARG. One litmus test is whether or not you can imagine walking down the street and running into a clue, and seriously wonder "Is this for reals?"

But perhaps you were using the looser ARG definition that has evolved into Chaotic Fiction. Games can be immersive, fiction can be interactive, you can play a role or a character, but an ARG encourages you to be yourself in your own world. It can be hard to "explore new realms" and still keep one foot in reality, which is what an ARG should strive to do.


I would say that the Beast is a pretty salient example that this doesn't have to be the case. It was about a far-off future world that was clearly not 'our reality' but which was still interactive and immersive (Although I still don't understand how calls to Mike Royal in 2001 can influence events in 2142).

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:37 pm
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Jas0n
Decorated


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 244
Will 2.0 wrote:
The best ARGs are literally creating an alternate reality in your own reality, what I call unfiction paranoia.


exactly - something that players can look at and think to themselves:
"this could be real"

For me, it's about taking something obviously fictitious and making it feel as though it is something that could be happening. Ny Takma was centered around a girl who had gone through the first time warp of the Bermuda Triangle... when Atlantis sunk in that region due to some aliens. Yeah it sounds far fetched, but when approached appropriately it allows players to feel as though it is something that could have a bit of legitimacy to it.

Kidnap victims have been worn slap out, but one thing about dramas is that much of the time various scenarios will repeat themselves. Someone going missing brings out a concern amongst players, a game focusing on a kidnap victim immediately attacks that concern.

As a PM myself, one of my biggest hopes is the players playing my games get the sense of effort in trying to put them into a truely alternate reality... feeling as though the fiction around them could be real.
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:56 am
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

 		I had at least one real world company contact me for more information on my "Learning Artificial Intelligence Platform" and if they can arrange to see a live demo.

Never felt prouder in my life. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:15 pm
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redct
Entrenched


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1233

 		Could you possibly say who it was? Wink
Nighthawk wrote:
I had at least one real world company contact me for more information on my "Learning Artificial Intelligence Platform" and if they can arrange to see a live demo.

Never felt prouder in my life. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:48 pm
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

 		Even if i did remember, I probably wouldn't share the name. Bad form, you know. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:29 pm
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Jas0n
Decorated


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 244
Nighthawk wrote:
Even if i did remember, I probably wouldn't share the name. Bad form, you know. Smile


only if you signed an NDA Wink
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:57 pm
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