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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[EMAIL] thecouberteam??
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ariock
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 762
Location: SF East Bay

 		I would just like to say that there is something we can all learn from this. Specifically, "You kill microbes with soap. Hope!"
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:41 am
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Tenchizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 254
danteIL wrote:

Tenchizard, I don't trust you now. That just how I feel, plain and simple. You lied to us and purposely mislead everyone about your knowledge of the couberteam and the origin of the strange pictures and emails.


I'm sorry to hear that. But what do you want now?
I've already apologized. I'm really sorry I went too far in my zeal to remain undercover. But I just feel you want me to get my things and leave. I thought that when we revealed all this, people would just joke about how it all happened. I had hope that the people here would understand our motives.

Imagine we had revealed about the artifake sooner, when we were developing it. And imagine someone going and telling Theo about it before it was done. So, what would have happened in that scenario? That's what we thought we could avoid by staying secret. It's not that we didn't trust ariock, or danteIL. Actually, everyone interested enough in the matter was sending mails to Monica, and she inmediately added them to the group and was told about what was going on.

I just don't know what to learn from all this matter. Maybe to not try to be subtle in a language not your own (my "unbelievable" post was meant to tell this was not "just a gamejack" but "PM approved"). And even if it's just 3 people angry at me for my behaviour, it still seems like a whole world to me. It's quite discouraging...

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:44 am
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ariock
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: SF East Bay
Tenchizard wrote:
Imagine we had revealed about the artifake sooner, when we were developing it. And imagine someone going and telling Theo about it before it was done. So, what would have happened in that scenario? That's what we thought we could avoid by staying secret.


This has nothing to do with the fake artifact, and everything to do with misleading people here about the group itself. You could have told us about the group (what it is, who it is) without revealing anything about the fake artifact. I don't even care about that part. But think about it.
How would James have reacted if he'd known we were going to ambush him?
How would Theo have acted if they'd known La Sekto were double-agents?
And yet all those things were talked about right here.

Instead of getting defensive you might want to examine how you'd feel if the tables were reversed. If you'd gotten emails from another player pretending to be important and part of the game, but weren't. How would you like to feel you've been made a fool of? How would you like it if we all made our own google groups and didn't tell each other what was going on? If you're really sorry, just take the (deserved) criticism, examine what happened and why it happened, and endeavor not to let it happen again. Trust is easily broken and not easily repaired.

I don't speak for dante, but I'm not angry about this any more. I look forward to continuing to work together, honestly and openly.
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"It says, 'Let's BEE friends'...and there's a picture of a bee!" -Ralph Wiggum
When the Apocalypse comes, it'll be in base64.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:17 am
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AUZ505
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1599
Location: Germany
ariock wrote:
I look forward to continuing to work together, honestly and openly.


Same for me Smile (Now at least I understand why nobody answered all my questions about the progress on the postcards but still wondering why everybody who received an email from Monica about the "secret club" decided the answer email here)

Lessons learned:
- uF, IRC and wiki should not be part of the game. They are "behind the curtain" so stop acting like being still on the stage.
- single players or groups of players should not try to develop the story like PMs do.
- dicuss ALL game issues here.
- Share your information (immediately).

BTW:
Thanks to Khaos and runeix for sharing the comic.
Thanks to momonga for sharing Thermentias email with the HistoryOfAntiquity link.
In general: Thanks to all players that shared information they got from IG characters (I mean the real IG characters Smile

And last but not least a "rule" that helped me:
A player is a player and not an IG character (IG characters won't post in this forum). If an IG character is involved keep "roleplaying". If only players are involved do not act like IG. This is not a roleplaying game. In General there is no player-player IG communication.

And now: The games must go on Smile

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:28 pm
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VictorSueiro
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Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 229

 		I am a CouberTeam member. I was one of the first members.
I dont fell a moral obligation to tell everybody what i do IG... this is just a forum ABOUT the game. Not the game itself.
So, if the pms deceided to divided players in factions, to organize secret plans... why i should unveal everything here? Is there some kind of rule about that?
This is just a people relationship problem.
I play this game to get fun... and there wasnt a bad objetive with my CouberTeam actions.
We deceided to not unveal our plans here cause of several reasons.
Im really sorry if somebody think that i do something wrong...
Peace...

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:37 pm
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ariock
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 762
Location: SF East Bay
VictorSueiro wrote:
I am a CouberTeam member. I was one of the first members.
I dont fell a moral obligation to tell everybody what i do IG... this is just a forum ABOUT the game. Not the game itself.
So, if the pms deceided to divided players in factions, to organize secret plans... why i should unveal everything here? Is there some kind of rule about that?
This is just a people relationship problem.
I play this game to get fun... and there wasnt a bad objetive with my CouberTeam actions.
We deceided to not unveal our plans here cause of several reasons.
Im really sorry if somebody think that i do something wrong...
Peace...


No one has said you should have unveiled your plans.

You could have unveiled the group. You chose not to.

You mislead us about the group. You should not have mislead us about the group:
VictorSueiro wrote:
What exactly is the couberteam? It seems that they are some kind of the six supporters... fans, or something like that. Is this a gamejack?

VictorSueiro wrote:
This is what i think: everybody here want to save the worlds: we have to find the right way... and maybe, there should be collaboration between TheO and the six helpers (the couberteam?).

Two separate occasions in this thread where you could have told us about the group (while staying silent about about the mission). But instead you chose to coy about it. To withhold the fact that you were a member.

Again, I don't have a problem with withholding information per se. Though if we ALL thought like that, it would be a pretty boring game, correct? I have a problem with the deception. With sending out misleading emails to players. With maintaining the deception here. This is supposed to be a safe place for people to play the game and talk about the game. But this place is outside the game. We maintain the fiction of the game (outside of meta tags) but the game itself stays out. We are providing our trust to the PMs not to you.

On the other hand, there has been an unfortunate amount of gullibility here. If danteIL doesn't trust Tenchizard or you, it's probably better that way. Personally, I never have. Nor should you trust me for that matter. NO ONE should trust ANYTHING not directly found via the game.
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"It says, 'Let's BEE friends'...and there's a picture of a bee!" -Ralph Wiggum
When the Apocalypse comes, it'll be in base64.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:51 am
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ariock
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 762
Location: SF East Bay

 		To The Couberteam...
So, I pretty much skimmed the whole artifake deal, since I didn't really care about that part of the couberteam. I even understand the secrecy, so I am giving you the benefit of the doubt on that. I've suggested before in other threads for other games that some kind of board for trusted friends/players might not be a bad idea (as long as people make clear that their group is made up of players)

I've now gone back and checked it out...

You thought you'd have prospective Theo members scream and run headlong into each other?

Seriously?

I've heard stories about lawyers for some companies being concerned about players crossing the street, and you thought this would be accepted and suggested for other players to perform? There's an actual risk of someone getting hurt doing that. I'll be very surprised if that gets anywhere.
_________________
"It says, 'Let's BEE friends'...and there's a picture of a bee!" -Ralph Wiggum
When the Apocalypse comes, it'll be in base64.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:09 am
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DavFlamerock
Entrenched


Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 937
Location: H2Oville, ME, USA

 		Hey, if anything it's hysterical. If it doesn't become used, I'll get a couple people together when this is all over and film it Razz

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:13 am
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danteIL
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Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990
ariock wrote:
This is supposed to be a safe place for people to play the game and talk about the game. But this place is outside the game. We maintain the fiction of the game (outside of meta tags) but the game itself stays out. We are providing our trust to the PMs not to you.

On the other hand, there has been an unfortunate amount of gullibility here. If danteIL doesn't trust Tenchizard or you, it's probably better that way. Personally, I never have. Nor should you trust me for that matter. NO ONE should trust ANYTHING not directly found via the game.


Well, I disagree with that pretty strongly. This is a collaborative enterprise, and players constantly rely on each other to share information and coordinate action in order to make the game move forward. If someone posts here that they received an IG email containing critical information, then for the sake of my enjoyment of the game, I have to believe that the email is authentic and that they aren't lying. People have different knowledge and skill sets, and thus we rely on each other to use those skills and knowledge for our common goals. In a game like this, with multiple languages, I have to trust that people are translating information from other languages correctly -- I just don't have enough knowledge of Spanish or Mandarin to be sure for myself. Therefore, if you never trust what other players are doing or telling you, then whole sections of the game become completely open to question, which isn't very fun.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:01 am
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Khaos
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Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 287
Location: France

 		Come on guys, will this thread ever end ? You're just all repeating yourselves you know. You were all perfectly clear in your argument the FIRST time you posted.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:46 am
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AUZ505
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1599
Location: Germany
Khaos wrote:
Come on guys, will this thread ever end ? You're just all repeating yourselves you know. You were all perfectly clear in your argument the FIRST time you posted.


You are right.
So can we go back to the "story" behind the couberteam and their mission. Due to the fact that the postcards has been posted IG and have been stolen, I fear, that the PMS can't just ignore this part of the story now.

Unfortunatly I still have not understand the whole thing (what is part of the PM's story for us and what is part of things other player made up). I mean what is real part of the game and what is just some "covering" the secret.

Are those blurry pictures real? I mean is there a IG Theo member (an actor of the PMs not another player) on those photos?
Are the postcards "really" stolen or is this also some "bluff" from the couberteam?
What is with that girl Miriam in Monica's aunt house? Is she a "real" IG character? What had happened to her?
Are those pictures really that bad or was it part of a playermade puzzle? I mean if I were a PM I probably would make blurry pictures. So did you made those blurry pictures on purpose?
Could someone at least now post the important communication with Monica or other "real" IG characters?

And probably many, many questions more.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:45 am
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danteIL
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Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990
Khaos wrote:
Come on guys, will this thread ever end ? You're just all repeating yourselves you know. You were all perfectly clear in your argument the FIRST time you posted.


If you don't want to read these arguments, don't read this thread. These happen to be pretty important arguments in the context of what is or is not appropriate in ARGs.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:51 am
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Khaos
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Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 287
Location: France
AUZ505 wrote:
Are those pictures really that bad or was it part of a playermade puzzle? I mean if I were a PM I probably would make blurry pictures. So did you made those blurry pictures on purpose?


I think we can safely assume the blurry part is not a playermade puzzle as all the pics provided in this thread are blurry

danteIL wrote:
If you don't want to read these arguments, don't read this thread. These happen to be pretty important arguments in the context of what is or is not appropriate in ARGs.


This thread is about Couberteam. Arguments about what and when the Couberteam did wrongly have already been made.
Arguments about what is or is not appropriate in ARGs would find a better place in a meta thread (and even better in the "meta" section of uF).
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:11 am
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Weezel
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Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 420
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AUZ505 wrote:

Are those blurry pictures real? I mean is there a IG Theo member (an actor of the PMs not another player) on those photos?


Yes.

AUZ505 wrote:

Are the postcards "really" stolen or is this also some "bluff" from the couberteam?


The postcards were not stolen, the document which the postcards were supposed to point to was. Monica was going to use the postcards as bait.

AUZ505 wrote:

What is with that girl Miriam in Monica's aunt house? Is she a "real" IG character? What had happened to her?


Yes. She is a real character who is working as a Theo mole to get information from Monica. She arranged a 'drop' with another Theo agent. At a specific day/time and wearing specific clothing.

That drop was to pass off the information that she had stolen.

One of our members was with Monica to document the drop and try to discover who she was working with, hence the pictures.

AUZ505 wrote:

Are those pictures really that bad or was it part of a playermade puzzle? I mean if I were a PM I probably would make blurry pictures. So did you made those blurry pictures on purpose?


They are really that bad. It was not intentional to be blurry. It was fast moving with alot going on.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:43 pm
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AUZ505
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1599
Location: Germany
Weezel wrote:
AUZ505 wrote:

Are those blurry pictures real? I mean is there a IG Theo member (an actor of the PMs not another player) on those photos?


Yes.

AUZ505 wrote:

Are the postcards "really" stolen or is this also some "bluff" from the couberteam?


The postcards were not stolen, the document which the postcards were supposed to point to was. Monica was going to use the postcards as bait.

AUZ505 wrote:

What is with that girl Miriam in Monica's aunt house? Is she a "real" IG character? What had happened to her?


Yes. She is a real character who is working as a Theo mole to get information from Monica. She arranged a 'drop' with another Theo agent. At a specific day/time and wearing specific clothing.

That drop was to pass off the information that she had stolen.

One of our members was with Monica to document the drop and try to discover who she was working with, hence the pictures.

AUZ505 wrote:

Are those pictures really that bad or was it part of a playermade puzzle? I mean if I were a PM I probably would make blurry pictures. So did you made those blurry pictures on purpose?


They are really that bad. It was not intentional to be blurry. It was fast moving with alot going on.


So, Miriam has stolen the document. From where did Monica/couberteam have had the information of the "Theo agent meeting" where they exchanged the documents?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:58 pm
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