unforum

[lhall]

Ariock asked above for some of the details of how this all got started, but I have to be honest here, I didn't really participate, so I'll just describe my own experience.

Back when Ariadne asked mrjudkins to find a few loyal people to to the La Sekto thing I made an impassioned post on these boards about ig/oog and why factions are fun, and all of that, but in the time that's followed - as I've gotten to know the game, and the community and its dynamics - I have totally changed my mind about how these things should work.

(I still am not too keen on people doing [META] How about those PMs, huh? [/META] type stuff, but I can live with it. )

I got signed up for the group when Monica posted on her blog about having postcards with content she wanted to keep secret from Theo; she said that if we could prove we were loyal, she would share what was on them. I emailed her with a link to my personal labyrinth video and I think Diego vouched for me as well, since I've been in contact with him before. Someone added me to the group, and that's when I realized it had nothing to do with postcards at all.

Around this point I got pretty busy with offline life. I didn't participate in the creation of the document or ritual, though I got the group emails so I had a vague idea of what was going on. That players were emailing people as Pierre C. to say "We are watching over you!" made me a little uncomfortable, but it fit in with what the group had been instructed to do, so I didn't say anything about it.

However, I never realized that the group was less 'allies' and more 'we are IG' (as with the denial/misleading posts on this board). I don't mean to make this a callout post, but I really don't agree with doing that. Sorry to both the people who tried it, and the people who were hurt by it.

As Mr. Knightley would say, I think a lot of this was badly done, indeed. But, because I was there nearish the start, and because I was included as well, I also know that nobody meant any harm by it. I don't think it's affected the game plot too terribly much, and as Khaos wrote, if Theo tells him to do the ritual, he'll still do it, which I figure is likely for other Theo members as well.

So, that's been my experience with this whole thing. I know others can provide more specific details about why decisions were made and executed in the way they were.

I also think that anyone who wants to see the google group should be able to; I don't have the privileges to add anyone in, though.

[Khaos]

[ariock]

[Weezel]

[Weezel]

[Khaos]

[Weezel]

[bryanflurry]

I have been avoiding the unititations because I don't like being in this kind of situation and yet I ended up on one.

And I guess if I could sum up my experience with this, it would be through Ariadne/Alex's words:

[ariock]

[RiotGrrl]

I'm entirely new to the world of ARGs, so I don't know how much my opinion counts for... but anyway, I was in the odd position of having my partner (Mauro) be part of couberteam. He never told me anything about the whole Monica/fake documents/etc. thing, and for the most part, I am not mad about what happened. There are a few things that I was miffed by, that ariock already put into perspective.

The main thing I don't understand is the secrecy involved. I understand the the situation was very sensitive, and you were worried that the wrong information might get into the wrong hands. That someone who was devoted to Theo might see what you were doing if you posted it on here, and reported back to Theo about your plans. But the exact same thing could have happened in the James kidnapping scenario. Someone could have easily taken the plans that were posted on here and relayed them to James, telling him not to show up at the roof top. But no one did.

I think that in the future, a little more trust has to be seen between the players. All of us on here know that uF is OOG, and the information here is for all of us to ponder, not to spread (unless of course, we're told to - i.e. getting 27 Theo members for James). You guys could have definitely discussed your plans on here, or at least lead a direct link to Monica. The only one I saw do that was my partner, Mauro (who said earlier in this thread to e-mail Monica). Also, if anyone pretended to not know what couberteam was, but was in on it, that's pretty much lying and unethical. I haven't read all of the thread, but I've always assumed that uF is a place for truth. Players lying to players is NEVER a good situation. Ever.

We're a community, together. United we stand, divided we fall.

[hmrpita]

[mr.judkins]

Hello all - as I've been named as "a member of the couberteam" I just want to clarify my experience of it - similar to Lehall's.

I was one of those who thought I'd do my bit to find out about Monica's postcards for the group, and didn't for a moment expect to be invited by her into a secret google group.

Things were well under way by the time I arrived, and although I had no desire to be part of a secret faction (especially after the La Sekto experience - where sharing openly worked so well), I also felt it was not my place to interfere with something I had not been a part of starting. I am terribly guilty of not sharing my concerns with the rest of the Couberteam group until recently - and I'm sorry about that guys and gals from both sides. I thought the best policy was to stay out of it all (here and there) - but then that hasn't helped anyone.

My apologies once again for not having the confidence to help find a way of keeping the wider group informed earlier. It's been one heck of a learning experience for this newbie...

[danteIL]

I was going to let this whole incident go, but the more I thought about it the more annoyed I became.

The issue, I think, really is about player-player trust. Trust and collaboration among players is at least as important as trust between PMs and players. Therefore, I am going to be blunt here, and say this:

Tenchizard, I don't trust you now. That just how I feel, plain and simple. You lied to us and purposely mislead everyone about your knowledge of the couberteam and the origin of the strange pictures and emails.


I feel like a fool that I started this whole thread devoted to the couberteam.

I feel like a fool that I poured over those postcards, trying to identify them, thinking they were an important clue provided by the PMs.

I feel like a fool that I Googled archaeological museums in Spain, trying to figure out what that exhibition might be.

I feel like a fool that I was pleased when I figured out that the location of those blurry pictures must be Madrid.

All of that effort and energy and thought was for nothing, because, unbeknownst to me, it was all an elaborate ruse constructed by some of my fellow players to catch the interest of Theo, not as a puzzle or problem really to be solved by anyone. It wouldn't have mattered if I had been able to identify Madrid or not. It didn't matter that I was not able to identify the postcards or not, because they were never intended to be identified. Only I didn't know that. I was led (on purpose) to believe that they were part of the larger game that we are all playing...

This was handled badly -- and wrongly -- by all involved and never should have been allowed to happen. My annoyance is not about being left out -- I have no problem with other individuals choosing to have their own interactions with IG entities, in their own way. What annoys me is the argument that it *had* to be secret, especially when that insistence upon secrecy resulted in deception between players. That is what impairs trust and collaboration.... the next time someone says that they made a new discovery or received a new email, I'm forced to wonder whether this is another elaborate game-within-a-game that I just don't know about...

[DavFlamerock]

Because it's our nature to speak out more when we oppose something, I expect the majority of this thread will be people being disappointed/distrustful/having bad feelings. Therefore, I will poke my head in here and take a page out of your (couberteam's) book and cheer someone up.

I think it was a cool idea, even if misleading the players wasn't the best choice in hindsight. Hell, half of what I do I wish I did differently in hindsight. So what. Slight mishap. I can't think of a single ARG that something like this hasn't happened... except maybe Eldritch. Oh wait never mind, something happened in that one too. So there. It's been done, and now we can move on. It was totally awesome, and I'm jealous that I wasn't more directly a part just like I'm sure many people feel about the James event. But we all get our moments. Besides, it feels like I'm never hearing about what's up with Diego or Lucie anymore. Well, or Mei Hui or Markus either to some degree.

Looking forward to see what comes of your ruse. I'm always curious to see what happens when characters require that players create content--which is what happens a lot in this game. As for my own personal views on IG/OOG material... I just assume everything's IG at first until it's proven not... I love roleplaying in the game.

[Khaos]