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 Forum index » Diversions » TimeWasters
Puzzle Experiment #5
Moderators: Giskard, ndemeter, ScarpeGrosse
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Omega
Unfettered


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Utah

 		Puzzle Experiment #5
Kentucky Kickoff
Imagine that you are on location for an ARG being held in Kenwood, Kentucky, and that a local group of college students are running the show as a class project. To start things off, participants have been supplied with GPS coordinates, shovels, and metal detectors. Following the coordinates, you head out with your group to a remote field and begin digging.


Meta: You're searching under the assumption that some clue, buried or otherwise, will lead you to your next physical location. When you believe you know where the next leg of the hunt is, please state it. As for the website, don't pay any attention to where all the files are being hosted.

Throughout the experiment, I would appreciate feedback directed at the following three questions:
  • Is the puzzle engaging?
  • Do you feel a desire/need to pursue the puzzle?
  • What emergent story, if any, do you notice?
_________________
Puzzle Experiments: #3, #4, #6

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:39 am
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Tenchizard
Decorated


Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 254

 		I was waiting for this to go on Razz

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Look! I found a bullet shell at 573,197

EDIT:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
and a washer at 461,451!

EDIT2:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
ok, and now a horseshoe at 211,235... and a nickel at 33,101


OMG EDIT3:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
agh! an skeleton! with lots of things! is it real? I'm sure half my team has already ran away and I'm thinking to do the same Razz Oh, the location is 352,120


PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:51 am
Last edited by Tenchizard on Mon May 26, 2008 8:05 am; edited 2 times in total
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Agent Lex
Entrenched


Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1188
Location: No longer London, still in England

 		I'm surprised these students haven't gotten in trouble with the local police!

"Treasure" found so far...


Not sure what to make of any of it, though. Several issues I'm thinking of:
  1. How much of it is random junk (I'm thinking the nickel, for example)
  2. How many items are there to find?
  3. How did they get away with the spent shells when the Sheepskin Ts guys didn't? Razz (This happened about a year ago, actually. Only source I can find offhand is this netcast)


ETA the washer, thanks Tenchizard

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:00 am
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

 		Okay here are my thoughts:

I've quickly decided that hunting around a picture and wearing out the left click button looking for these 'buried pieces' is a task that is better left to others who have more desire/success. At first I thought it wouldn't be so bad but then I discovered that you pretty much have to zero in on the exact pixel in order to find a clue. I have no idea how to interpret feedback like "FAINT" or "SEVERE."

So I am afraid that for me the puzzle is not engaging. I am content to wait to see what others dig up.

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:15 am
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Agent Lex
Entrenched


Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1188
Location: No longer London, still in England

 		For those like dante who are finding it difficult to use the map, the body page is here. Transcription of the letter:
Quote:
Myra,
I won! I bet everything and I won! Oh,
it's so wonderful. The kids' schooling,
clothes, food... We have none of that to
worry about anymore. This is a blessing!
Thank God, everything's going to be fine.
I'm taking the train to Lexington in the
morning. Need to pay a visit to an old friend
first. I'll see you soon. I love you so much!
Please don't tell the kdis anything, I want
to surprise them. I have something special
for you, too.

All my love,

Warren P.


I have to agree with dante, to an extent. The range for the metal detector to go off is incredibly small. Taking the body page as an example (which I found at 352, 120)...
  • 342, 120 - Bingo
  • 332, 120 - Severe
  • 322, 120 - Moderate
  • 312, 120 - Moderate
  • 302, 120 - Faint
  • 292, 120 - Nothing

The actual first point, on that straight line, that comes up with nothing is 297, 120, which is 55 pixels away from the point of the find. Let's look at a 55-pixel radius circle...


Looks fairly big. That's the (estimated) total range to find something. Let's look at that 55-pixel radius circle on the map, where the body is.


Doesn't look quite so big now. Maybe a 75-radius circle looks better...


Considering that we've made a total difference of 40 pixels to the diameter, the perceived difference there is pretty big. In other words, I think the range of a find could have been tweaked a little bit.

(sorry for the large images)

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:40 am
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Xeraans
Boot


Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 40
Agent Lex wrote:
"Treasure" found so far...


Add to that list a nail, and the body found earlier and you'll have so far that's all that I've found.

Personally, I don't find the distance between most of the warnings on the metal detector (Moderate, Severe.. etc) that bad, only the distance between Bingo and the actual object have I had trouble with. And even then, it's not that bad.

-edit-
Also, I didn't notice until I re-read the above letter that there were other things on the skeleton. Giving that I know that now, here's what I glean from the story:

A man wins a large bet on a horse racing track, writes a letter to his wife and kids. A greedy fool with a gun comes and decides he deserves that money more than him, and shoots him (gun, empty shell), takes his money and makes off on horseback. (nickel found away from the body, horse shoe)

The only things I can't place are the metal shard and nail, though they may be there as extra junk, as that's what you'd normally find with a metal detector.

As for the other two question:
  • Do you feel a desire/need to pursue the puzzle?

I definitely wasn't looking forward to digging around for a long time without knowing what I was looking for. But, gladly, it didn't take long to find everything that I did. Just a couple of minutes. I am definitely glad that I was clicking this puzzle, and not actually digging in the ground for nickels and shell casings.

  • Is the puzzle engaging?

As I said above, if I was actually digging for these things, finding the body first and wanting to know what happened to him would be the only fuel keeping me digging. If I were to have just found the other items and not the body, I probably would have been greatly discouraged, possibly even give up the hunt.

If part of the story had been established when we were given the metal detectors, it would have definitely made digging/clicking more enjoyable, knowing that we're actually looking for something. Even if it wasn't something such as the body, one of the clues on the body (letter, trail of money, track photo)) would have been sufficient.

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:59 pm
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Tenchizard
Decorated


Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 254

 		My motivation:
first thing I found was the bullet. But then I thought there could be more things... and found another. Then what kept me going was just trying to find something I could use. And then came the corpse.

So, that is what I was looking for but... I don't know how to go on. I see the letter, the money, the pic... I can even imagine a story where a man is killed on his way home, but as the man has the money with him I don't know why would he have been killed, so I don't really know what to think about how the game continues...

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:26 pm
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

 		Well, this was the stated question:
Quote:
When you believe you know where the next leg of the hunt is, please state it.


So, looking at the objects, we have:

a) a note that suggests that this guy won a lot of money by betting on... something.

b) a picture of a race horse

c) a bank note from The Union Bank of Louisville. A picture of the same note here indicates that this dates from around 1889.


This ARG was described as happening in Kenwood Kentucky. Kenwood is a suburb of Louisville, home of the Kentucky Derby. So my guess/assumption is that this man placed a bet on the Kentucky Derby and won. I've tried to identify that picture of the horse which I bet(ha!) would tell me exactly when this happened, on the assumption that is the winning horse.

I'm not sure how this helps us identify the next location, but there you go.

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:41 pm
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cjr22
Boot

Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 58

 		My only problem with the mechanics of this thing was that I didn't realise "Bingo" meant "almost there". The first time I got Bingo and nothing happened, I started to check things like was Javascript turned on, was adblock blocking something it shouldn't and so on. It was only when I read the messages here that I realised I needed to carry on searching in the bingo area.

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:28 am
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Big_Larry
Veteran


Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Not there... maybe somewhere else.

 		A couple of things:

- This task was incredibly frustrating. I'm running on a Mac, using Safari as my browser, so I don't know if this is just a browser-related thing, but I was never able to open any of the "finds," no matter where I clicked. I went pixel-by-pixel throughout the entire "BINGO!" area for the body and never got to see said body. The page never came up.

- I would have liked to have some manner of using the metal detector that didn't rely upon clicking all over the map. If this could have been set up so that the page actually functioned like a metal detector (I'm thinking that you probably would need to use Flash, or something of that ilk), I would have been more likely to go through the entire map.

- I have to agree with Xeraans in that without some sort of backstory, I wouldn't even be out here digging.

- danteIL has summarized this pretty well. I would say the next step would probably be to find some sort of betting log from the late 1800s at Churchill Downs or a museum directly associated with the Kentucky Derby.
_________________
SPENGLER: According to this morning's PKE sample, the current level in the city would be a Twinkie 35 feet long weighing approximately six hundred pounds.
WINSTON: That's a big Twinkie.

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:42 am
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Omega
Unfettered


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Utah

 		Bean Spilling
Oh no! The beans!
I'm having issues with my home this week, amongst other things, so I'm gonna cut things short. Apologies!

danteIL wrote:
I've quickly decided that hunting around a picture and wearing out the left click button looking for these 'buried pieces' is a task that is better left to others who have more desire/success.

Agent Lex wrote:
I have to agree with dante, to an extent. The range for the metal detector to go off is incredibly small.

I'm wondering, are the difficulties with this puzzle stemming from the limited metal detector range, the lack of feedback from the detector, or the narrow clicking range to find an object? All of the above, perhaps? If you guys get a sec, I'd appreciate your elaboration on that.

The distance settings on the detector, by the way, were as follows (in pixels):

>= 51 ~ NOTHING
<= 50 ~ FAINT
<= 37 ~ MODERATE
<= 23 ~ SEVERE
<= 10 ~ BINGO!

Each item had its own threshold radius between 3 and 9 pixels, which defined the area that had to be clicked to find the item. The body, for example, had a radius of 3 pixels, whereas the gun had a radius of 9.

Big_Larry wrote:
This task was incredibly frustrating. I'm running on a Mac, using Safari as my browser, so I don't know if this is just a browser-related thing, but I was never able to open any of the "finds," no matter where I clicked.

I didn't test the puzzle with Safari, Big_Larry. Sorry 'bout that. I agree with your Flash suggestion, though, about making the metal detector more real. This kind of puzzle would definitely benefit from that sort of dynamic feedback.

Xeraans wrote:
If part of the story had been established when we were given the metal detectors, it would have definitely made digging/clicking more enjoyable, knowing that we're actually looking for something.

Big_Larry wrote:
I have to agree with Xeraans in that without some sort of backstory, I wouldn't even be out here digging.

One thing I wanted to test this week was the absence of immediate motivation. My aim was to have the find of the bullet shell or the gun become the motivation, as if it had been stumbled upon and pursued out of curiosity (did this work/not work?).

I've seen this happen in a few games where someone happens across an ARG-ish site by chance which provides little to no information on what the game is about, and yet it still attracts a number of players. This is odd to me, because I, too, look for a good backstory when joining an ARG. However, this seems counterintuitive to TINAG. In true TINAG, I would never want the story presented to me so that I could decide whether or not I wanted to play. Instead, I would want to discover the story myself, as if it had been sitting there the whole time waiting to be found. Then again, what's to say I'll ever find that story? Hrm...

Big_Larry wrote:
I would say the next step would probably be to find some sort of betting log from the late 1800s at Churchill Downs or a museum directly associated with the Kentucky Derby.

Churchill Downs was the answer I was looking for. The picture found on the body is intended to show Aristides, the horse that won the first Kentucky Derby in 1875. However, I had a mix-up with the Louisville dollar bills: I could have sworn I read 1875 when I grabbed them, but looking again, they're actually from 1882. Slight offset in the date.

The intended story was mostly as Xeraans describes it, save that the murdered winner was left with several bills as a form of homage to the now widow and fatherless kids. The shard, nail, nickel, and washer are all junk. The horseshoe is a redundant hint at the Kentucky Derby.

Finally, there is a small yet noteworthy clue on the gun that appears to have gone unnoticed: carved on the side, just above the trigger, is the name "Clark." Meriwether Lewis Clark, Jr. was the founder of Churchill Downs. Although the owner of the gun may not be the same Clark, the implications are there to suggest other possible backstories and conflicts.

Again, I greatly appreciate the participation and comments. Everyone's criticism is excellent, as usual!
_________________
Puzzle Experiments: #3, #4, #6

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:39 am
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

 		Re: Bean Spilling
Oh no! The beans!
Omega wrote:

I'm wondering, are the difficulties with this puzzle stemming from the limited metal detector range, the lack of feedback from the detector, or the narrow clicking range to find an object? All of the above, perhaps? If you guys get a sec, I'd appreciate your elaboration on that.


For me, it was kind of a combination of all of the above, but I think the biggest problem was this:
Quote:
<= 10 ~ BINGO!


For me, "BINGO!" means "you're there! you have it! search no more!" but obviously the way you had it set up, there was still a margin of error even around the BINGOs. So when I clicked around and found a "BINGO" area but still nothing happened, I figured that it was broken or I was doing something wrong and so I quickly gave up. The feedback needs to match the desired result. Smile

About the other issue, the lack of a story/motivation -- that didn't really bother me. I mean, I took this in the spirit of these experiments, which is that we are kind of presented with a possible ARG/puzzle situation and we have to respond to them. Obviously, in a real ARG I might have persevered a little longer on the hunt-n-click, but for me that wasn't the real problem. The stated goal was a little vague though -- I don't know what it would mean to identify "Churchill Downs" as the next location, given it's not clear how that would help anything.

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:47 pm
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