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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[City labyrinth] Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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hmrpita
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Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: East of the Ocean, West of the Bay, Close to many faults
thebruce wrote:
*applause* for the attempt Smile I like it.
An idea I had, was perhaps somehow incorporate the CD tower... it can't really be the center, but what if the exit of the labyrinth is at the Tower? I haven't really looked at the roads, so I have no idea if it's possible, but there are a few other places around that could serve as the center as well... *shrug*


Thanks. Attempt for sure, not what I'd say a resounding success. Smile

Isn't the Tower near downtown and tall buildings? They can block the trackstick's "view" of satellites.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:43 pm
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dreamerblue
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 		I love your Toronto map...there is only one problem I see. On the left-hand side, you have one path that is not on any road (if you are going from the outside of the labyrinth to the inside, it's pretty early on). If you turn the satellite image on, it looks like part of that path cuts across a school, which is fine, but part of it cuts through a block of houses and backyards, where there is no discernible way through. To use that part of the path, the walker would basically have to scale fences and trespass. Suggestion: can you make the inside of the labyrinth a little smaller, so that that part of the path can come up Greenwood Avenue? I tried to drag points of the path around, but I guess I can't edit it because I didn't create it.

hmrpita wrote:
thebruce wrote:
An idea I had, was perhaps somehow incorporate the CD tower... it can't really be the center, but what if the exit of the labyrinth is at the Tower? I haven't really looked at the roads, so I have no idea if it's possible, but there are a few other places around that could serve as the center as well... *shrug*


...

Isn't the Tower near downtown and tall buildings? They can block the trackstick's "view" of satellites.


Tall buildings was why I avoided the downtown core completely once I heard about the line-of-sight issue. If you turn on the satellite image in Google Maps, you can kind of tell how big some of the buildings are by the length of their shadow...some areas are more troublesome than others, granted. There are also a ton of one-way streets in the area, which makes planning difficult (it gets to the point where even if a walker jumps out of the car to walk the "wrong way," the driver has to do a lot of turns just to get to where they have to pick the walker up again). Also, there are a number of intersections downtown that look fine on paper, but when you actually get to them you see signs posted at the intersection prohibiting left-hand turns here, right-hand turns there, and so on...this is why I take the subway when I go downtown (well, that and the expensive parking issue), and part of why it took me so long to pick thebruce up when we went to get the Toronto Codex page. Oh, and traffic is horrendous downtown. Downtown sux Razz. Alright, I have to stop typing now because I'm just complaining, heh...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:36 pm
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dreamerblue
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 		Sorry for the double-post...just wanted to share the e-mail response I got from Eli today regarding my 3 designs (pita hadn't posted hers yet when I e-mailed him).

Eli Hunt wrote:
Hello Joy,

Thank you for leading up the labyrinth efforts for Team Toronto. It's
a pleasure to collaborate with you on these designs.

This is an excellent start. Some feedback you will hopefully find
helpful in making your final design:

The first labyrinth proposed does not start in the center and end on
the outside, which is an essential criterion. (Your other two
proposals meet this criterion). If you adapt the first proposal, be
sure to correct this.

Your labyrinth circuits are not quite designed correctly. The circuits
should wrap around each other, rather than weaving in and out of each
other. The first circuit goes around the center, the next circuit goes
around that circuit, and so on. Your circuits go big and then little
and then big and little. I hope you can understand what I mean by
comparing your designs with this:

http://www.geomancy.org/images/labnum.gif

Please revise your designs accordingly, and please also calculate the
omph strength for them when you send them back tome.


Anyway, I think pita's design is the best one for us yet...we just have to iron out how to handle that one little part of the path. If we can get a revised proposal to Eli soon, and if we hear back from him by sometime Friday, we can still try to do the Trackstick run as a group this Saturday. If not (and I think Eli will be the limiting factor here), we'll have to skip it until the next time people are available (which I think so far is looking to be July 5 or 6, though I'll test out signal strength in the area before that).

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:47 pm
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thebruce
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario

 		heh. um. yeah. totally forgot the line of sight issue. Embarassed Smile

I was actally wondering - would it not be wise even to test the trackstick first in certain areas to see how good the coverage is?

But yeah, likely, downtown's right out. so n/m =P
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:51 pm
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hmrpita
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dreamerblue wrote:
I love your Toronto map...there is only one problem I see. On the left-hand side, you have one path that is not on any road (if you are going from the outside of the labyrinth to the inside, it's pretty early on). If you turn the satellite image on, it looks like part of that path cuts across a school, which is fine, but part of it cuts through a block of houses and backyards, where there is no discernible way through. To use that part of the path, the walker would basically have to scale fences and trespass. Suggestion: can you make the inside of the labyrinth a little smaller, so that that part of the path can come up Greenwood Avenue? I tried to drag points of the path around, but I guess I can't edit it because I didn't create it.


Thank you! I forgot to fix that last night! It is fixed now. I WISH I could make the inside smaller, but the streets are just not there to do so. When I was doing this, there were times when I was thinking, "OK, have them bang on people's doors and ask to walk through their yards." I know, brilliant idea. Wink

I certainly do commiserate with you and your frustration in creating a labyrinth for Toronto. It ain't not easy, nohow.

I also just made a few changes to make one way streets drivable. Please check to see that I didn't miss anything.

I can add you as a collaborator so you can make all the changes you see fit. I just need your email.
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As is your sort of mind,
So is your sort of search;
You will find what you desire.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:15 pm
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dreamerblue
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 		LOL...I did consider door-knocking, too, when I saw how awesome your design was with that one little exception! Maybe in a smaller town where everyone knows everyone (or at least isn't scared by them), but most people here wouldn't be up for that Razz.

Pita, this looks AMAZING now (especially compared with what I came up with!). You rock!

You've given the omph strength as 18.15...so using C = 7 in (C x S)/6, you have found S = 15.56 stadia = 2.88 km? Yeah, I suppose that does look about right, working from side-to-side...do you think it matters that top-to-bottom it is smaller?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:37 pm
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hmrpita
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dreamerblue wrote:
LOL...I did consider door-knocking, too, when I saw how awesome your design was with that one little exception! Maybe in a smaller town where everyone knows everyone (or at least isn't scared by them), but most people here wouldn't be up for that Razz.

Pita, this looks AMAZING now (especially compared with what I came up with!). You rock!

You've given the omph strength as 18.15...so using C = 7 in (C x S)/6, you have found S = 15.56 stadia = 2.88 km? Yeah, I suppose that does look about right, working from side-to-side...do you think it matters that top-to-bottom it is smaller?


Thank you! Embarassed

Yes, that is how I calculated the omph strength. The SF one is longer from side to side than it is top to bottom and Eli approved it, so I think that shouldn't be an issue.

BTW, I liked your third attempt. Smile
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As is your sort of mind,
So is your sort of search;
You will find what you desire.
--Robert Browning

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:56 pm
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dreamerblue
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hmrpita wrote:
The SF one is longer from side to side than it is top to bottom and Eli approved it, so I think that shouldn't be an issue.

BTW, I liked your third attempt. Smile


Thanks!

Sorry, I didn't mean "is it an issue that it's wider than it is tall"...I meant, it looks like it is indeed about 2.88 km wide, but its height is shorter than 2.88 km, so should we actually be using the height in the calculation rather than the width (since that would give a smaller strength)? Or are you saying that for SF you also used the larger dimension in the calculation? (Or am I being too picky a Sofia right now Smile?)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:48 pm
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jasper
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 		check out what he says about the German city labyrinth- the strentht is calculated using the measurement at its widest point.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:10 am
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dreamerblue
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 		Ok, I'm going to call the width an even 3 km then and send it off to Eli for approval.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:05 pm
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fonograph
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Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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Location: the future!

 		You guys are doing Science here. Seriously, I am amazed. I feel like Brian Greene should be narrating.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:18 pm
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hmrpita
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Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: East of the Ocean, West of the Bay, Close to many faults
dreamerblue wrote:
Sorry, I didn't mean "is it an issue that it's wider than it is tall"...I meant, it looks like it is indeed about 2.88 km wide, but its height is shorter than 2.88 km, so should we actually be using the height in the calculation rather than the width (since that would give a smaller strength)? Or are you saying that for SF you also used the larger dimension in the calculation? (Or am I being too picky a Sofia right now Smile?)


jasper wrote:
check out what he says about the German city labyrinth- the strentht is calculated using the measurement at its widest point.


Eli said "I believe your calculation of 32.2 is correct..."

I didn't use the widest point for the SF labyrinth. I used the width that it mostly was, if that makes any sense. I cheated myself! Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:54 pm
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dreamerblue
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 		I just realized...June 21 is really really soon! In fact, I won't be available June 21 at all because I'll be off to a big family thing!

Here is my plan:
- if Eli approves the new (hmrpita's) plan today or tomorrow, anyone available who wants to come can do the drive of the labyrinth with me this Saturday.
- if Eli does not approve it today or tomorrow, I will go drive the labyrinth all by myself sometime next week before the 21st so we can make sure we get it done in time...unless I hear that someone else wants to and is available to drive it on the 21st itself (or is available to come with me on a weekday next week). This means you guys might miss out on doing the city labyrinth, but if you are available for a training labyrinth on July 5 or 6, I'd be up for that, too (I'd even be willing to come to Guelph or wherever if that's better for you guys).

Edit: Given pita's laby-making skillz, do you want to assume Eli will approve it, and drive it this Saturday anyway? That way fonograph will definitely get a chance to participate. If we have to throw it out, we have to throw it out...though I suppose that would be a bit of a waste of time of anyone coming in from Guelph.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:15 pm
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dreamerblue
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 		Here is Eli Hunt's reply to our new proposal:

Quote:
Hello Joy,

That is a fascinating design! I would certainly approve it as an omph
knot. May I make one suggestion regarding execution? If it is possible
to take shortcuts by foot on the final outer circuit, so as to make
the final wall a straight shoot, I believe it will enhance the omph
strength considerably. It is likely if a circuit wall is not truly
smooth (straight or curved), its circuit may not be functional and the
effective omph strength would be lower than we hope or expected.

Sincerely yours,

Eli Hunt


I'm going to go look at the satellite image right now and see about making the outside smoother...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:00 pm
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hmrpita
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Location: East of the Ocean, West of the Bay, Close to many faults
dreamerblue wrote:
Here is Eli Hunt's reply to our new proposal:

Quote:
Hello Joy,

That is a fascinating design! I would certainly approve it as an omph
knot. May I make one suggestion regarding execution? If it is possible
to take shortcuts by foot on the final outer circuit, so as to make
the final wall a straight shoot, I believe it will enhance the omph
strength considerably. It is likely if a circuit wall is not truly
smooth (straight or curved), its circuit may not be functional and the
effective omph strength would be lower than we hope or expected.

Sincerely yours,

Eli Hunt


I'm going to go look at the satellite image right now and see about making the outside smoother...


You could use Pape Avenue all the way on the west side. I don't know why I didn't make that smooth. I am sure I had some reason about it being too wide at that point or something that just sounds silly now.

By "final wall" though, does he mean the entire outside loop? He must, right? So, that is where hoofing it comes in on the southern section and the NE corner.
_________________
As is your sort of mind,
So is your sort of search;
You will find what you desire.
--Robert Browning

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:12 pm
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