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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[Chat] Eli Hunt - 15 May 2008
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mr.judkins
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 		[Chat] Eli Hunt - 15 May 2008
Creating the Earth Omphalos, etc...
Okay - apologies for all the formatting, I've tried to make this rather long conversation as readable as possible.

Here is the conversation I had this morning with Eli Hunt...

(Beware of quoting this entire post, because this thread has the potential to get very long indeed!)


Eli Hunt & mr.judkins wrote:
me: Eli! You're online! I've just had a response from James.


Eli: [mr.judkins]


me: Forwarding now. I have also tracked down a member of the community helping the six in Cardiff - if we can find out where Ariadne is, he his happy to go assist her in any way he can.


Eli: Thank you for forwarding the message from a member of the counter agonothetai. I'm surprised they are operating out in the open. They must be very confident that we are failing in our mission.


me: James revealed himself just recently, and they are openly recruiting from our community - using a stenography method that we developed and handed to them.


Eli: I am eager to talk to someone about an impending opportunity.


me: I'm all ears Smile


Eli: Something in one of the codex chapters jogged my memory. The chapter about creating labyrinths on the scale of the earth itself.


me: To allow for multiversal travel...? An Earth-Omphalos?


Eli: Yes, the Earth-Omphalos. According to my research, military exercises similar to labyrinth patterns were carried out annually across the Hellenistic States, in the weeks preceding the Summer Solstice, which was for many the start of the ancient New Year.

If our goal is to create a portal to other worlds by making giant labyrinth-knots, it would seem that the best time to do so is imminent, for it would not only increase our omphalos strength, but also potentially create opportunities for synchronisation.


me: June 21st?


Eli: That is, if the military exercises are still carried out in the form of large-scale labyrinth making, perhaps for civic exercises these days. There is evidence that in Ancient Greece, the military labyrinth later became a popular festival dance in the summer months.

Yes, June 21.


me: Ariadne's dance.


Eli: Yes, which is also mentioned in the Codex.


me: Indeed. A number of the community have been researching the dance. And have found a number of websites, and videos of current manifestations.


Eli: As I understand it, once we have restored the Earth-Omphalos, athletic synchronisation occurs at a much higher speed of transmission.
This matches the ancient calendar of first military training labyrinths, followed by the mass dancing.

The former ties the knots, the latter syncs the worlds rapidly enough to allow for travel eventually.

All we are missing is an omphalos design. To know where to tie the knots.

This leads me to the most important discovery I have made in my investigations here in Argentina, and Sao Paolo, and elsewhere.

I believe that the counter-agonothetai know the omphalos design.

I believe that they have concentrated geographically in the cities that correspond with the knot locations.

I believe they have done this specifically to conduct as much desynchronisation as possible in potential knot cities so as to undermine any efforts to build an omphalos.

If my theory is correct, then we know for sure that certain counter-agonothetai hubs -- such as San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seoul, Buenos Aires, and Sao Paolo are essential knot cities.

I have said too much perhaps.


me: No, not at all. I didn't want to interrupt you.


Eli: I feel we have two strategies going forward.

The first is to figure out how the counteragonothetai have come to understand the omphalos design, and to get that design from them, or from whatever source they have learned it.

The second, simultaneous, strategy,I believe, is to start making our large-scale labyrinths in the cities we believe are undoubtedly part of the design.


me: This makes a lot of sense. You've certainly named five of the 27
And we know we have allies in San Francisco, LA, Buenos Aries and Sao Paolo
Seoul may be somewhat harder.


Eli: Indeed, the counteragonothetai have a much stronger foothold there than we do.


me: As for finding out more from the counter-Agonothetai, I'm sure you've heard about our current efforts?

Some are a bit concerned by what they are asking our community to do in order to "prove" themselves as allied to desynchronization.

But it seems they will not share information with anyone who does not.


Eli: It seems essential. It is perhaps the only way to access the omphalos design.


me: Is there anything we can do to negate the effects of our own desynchronizing acts to join them?


Eli: I believe that a personal labyrinth to transmit your intention to complete the mission could have the effect of synchronizing other parallel selves to complete it.

Perhaps unconsciously they will be inspired to do something completely out of the ordinary, seemingly random -- not knowing it is the imperative of a parallel self.


me: Perfect, we discussed such an option - it's great to hear you think it may work.
Oh, it also appears that Kai has stepped up to the plate in the current absence of Ariadne.
http://www.findthelostring.com/ariadne/detail.do?postId=1586


Eli: Yes. I think it's very important we seek his help in organizing the large scale labyrinths.

Surely there is some technology that will allow us to be extraordinarily precise in tracking agonothetai movements through labyrinths on the scale of the one shown in the old Philadelphia map. Do you know what I'm referring to here?


me: I do. The one that Monica found at her uncle's house.


Eli: I think it will be important to transmit somehow our design through the omphaputer or some kind of registry the exact geographic coordinates of our movements for these labyrinths.


me: I see. So perhaps the omphaputer is able to cross the boundaries between worlds?

And we may find a way to use it for communication?

And the impression I get is that we need to choose our cities, superimpose our own designs upon them a'la Philadelphia and communicate them?

Or am I misunderstanding here?


Eli: Well clearly we need to actually make the labyrinths.
Much as the ancient Greeks did with their training exercises.


me: But we need to let the other worlds know WHERE these will be.


Eli: We will need proof that the labyrinths were actually physically traced.


me: Like Jorge & Co's postcards?


Eli: Yes. Perhaps you can work with Kai to plan a strategy for proving and sharing these giant labyrinth paths. We have come a long way since Jorge & Co. We can be more precise.


me: Certainly. I have started communicating with Kai already, and can discuss this with him.

On the subject of Jorge, Monica has four more postcards that she has found.
But has not yet revealed their contents. She is very uncertain as to who she can trust.

So to sum up - we need to create giant labyrinths in each of the cities which are part of the omphalos design.

We create these using Ariadne's dance, as per the codex.


Eli: Four more postcards-- fascinating.


me: The cities used in the design are known to the Counter-Agonothetai.
and we must discover what they are.


Eli: I believe the dance and the labyrinth making are separate exercises.

As explained above.


me: Okay - getting a little mixed up, sorry - it's a lot to take in!


Eli: One allows for the other to be more effective. I believe this is as the codex describes, and it is certainly the custom to do them separately in ancient times.
Of course. It has taken me years to begin to comprehend these traditions myself.


me: As for monica's new postcards, she has asked for proof of alliance to the six.

So I'll send her videos of our New Zealand Labyrinth Training, and see if Noriko can vouch for me, as Ariadne is still out of commission.

Have you heard anything more of her condition or location?


Eli: None at all. I have no idea where she went. My best guess would be that she would be drawn to larger labyrinths, more powerful omphaloi. If she is truly obsessed with staying in sync with parallel selves.


me: In reading some correspondence people have had with Larissa, it sounds like Renata became obsessed with Labyrinth Running too.

And by your email you've experienced what Ariadne is going through as well?

By what you've said above though, I guess we could potentially draw her out through this process of creating giant labyrinths...

I'm just reading through the latter chapters we have recovered of the codex - I can see hints for the design of the global omphalos (27 knots, etc) but not of how the labyrinths themselves are designed in the cities.


Eli: Yes, I think the Philadelphia map is our best guess -- we may need more information from the counteragonothetai to proceed if we don't have enough from the map and the codex.

Please try to coordinate with Kai., I'm afraid he doesn't like me very much,


me: I will.


Eli: We argued frequently about Ariadne before I left Wales.


PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:01 pm
Last edited by mr.judkins on Wed May 14, 2008 9:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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lhall
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 		Phew... this is a lot to take in. Thanks, mrj! This is really exciting. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:06 pm
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dreamerblue
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 		Wowee zowee!

Ok, June 21 is coming up really fast. Those in contact with Theo need to do their desynch soon so we can get from them the crucial info we need to get this military exercise or whatever done.

As far as proving that the path was actually traced goes...perhaps the person(s) involved in doing the tracing could wear a GPS device or something, then upload that data and impose it on a city map or something? I know that runners (as in people who train for marathons, not labyrinth runners) sometimes use Garmin devices that allow you to do just that.

I, too, am confused as to exactly what is what...and I think Eli is inconsistent in what he says on this point.

Compare:

Quote:
Eli: (on June 21st being the best date) That is, if the military exercises are still carried out in the form of large-scale labyrinth making, perhaps for civic exercises these days. There is evidence that in Ancient Greece, the military labyrinth later became a popular festival dance in the summer months.


but later:

Quote:
Eli: I believe the dance and the labyrinth making are separate exercises.

As explained above.


Say what???

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:34 pm
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danteIL
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 		So reading this again, there is a lot of information that Eli is dumping on us, but focusing for the moment on this segment:

Quote:
Surely there is some technology that will allow us to be extraordinarily precise in tracking agonothetai movements through labyrinths on the scale of the one shown in the old Philadelphia map. Do you know what I'm referring to here?

me: I do. The one that Monica found at her uncle's house.

Eli: I think it will be important to transmit somehow our design through the omphaputer or some kind of registry the exact geographic coordinates of our movements for these labyrinths.

me: I see. So perhaps the omphaputer is able to cross the boundaries between worlds?

And we may find a way to use it for communication?

And the impression I get is that we need to choose our cities, superimpose our own designs upon them a'la Philadelphia and communicate them?

Or am I misunderstanding here?

Eli: Well clearly we need to actually make the labyrinths.
Much as the ancient Greeks did with their training exercises.

me: But we need to let the other worlds know WHERE these will be.

Eli: We will need proof that the labyrinths were actually physically traced.


So, it sounds to me like ol' Eli is expecting us to somehow decide on a large-scale labyrinth through these critical cities (and we only know 5 of the 27 so far), and then use GPS technology to 'transmit' the actual path of someone walking the entire labyrinth (as proof), to some kind of register or omphaputer. Yes?

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:27 am
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Khaos
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 		Why should WE choose the labyrinth location ? As far as we know, we're in the one universe that stopped to do Multiversal Olympics but a lot of others still do regularly.

Shouldn't we look at the location already chosen in the other worlds instead ?

And we already have the tool to do this one-way communication (ie personnal labyrinth), don't we ?
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:48 am
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Weezel
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 		This is the second time something has referenced the Philadelphia Map.. Ariadne did so in her blog before as well.

I think we're missing something there.

Also the personal register and how it is handled also seems to be a recurring theme, and again maybe something we missed.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:16 am
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danteIL
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 		I know that I for one have gotten completely confused by the multiplicity of kinds of labyrinths that have suddenly appeared:

1) The training labyrinths -- 3, 5, 7-circuit (Codex, Chapter 5) These seem to be based on the training underwent by the ancient Greek athletes before every Olympic games. These can be laid out anywhere with string and human walls, and are for practice purposes only.

2) The Olympic labyrinths -- 7-circuit only (Codex, Chapter 5) These are for Olympic competition only. Originally laid out with stone walls, when they went "in hiding" (Codex, Chapter 9), began to use human walls. These labyrinths were important for multiverso synchronization, carried out every 4 years at the Multiverse Olympics.

3) Personal labyrinths (Codex, Chapter 19) -- No particular circuit size seems to be specified, only that human labyrinths are not allowed (stone, plants, temporary/string all okay). "Every four years during the 12 weeks before the opening ceremonies of the Multiverse Olympiad" people gather to complete their personal labyrinths, which must be registered in your city's register at least one day beforehand, and are completed while carrying a scroll describing a life-changing personal decision. These are used to communicate with your parallel self in another world, who made a different decision. Seems to be for one-way communication via "visions" only. Also useful to increase synchronization between worlds.

4) Large-scale labyrinths (Codex, Chapter 23) -- for the purpose of actual two-way communication and travel between multiple worlds, but only during the year of an Olympics. Enabled through the creation of at least 27 large-scale labyrinths (i.e., the size of city blocks). This seems to be what Eli referred to as "making giant labyrinth-knots" -- so the critical part is knowing where to tie the knots, so to speak. Thus, we need to know the "omphalos design."

5) The labyrinth dance (Codex, Chapter 24) -- in order to make sure that any multiverse travel occurs between the proper worlds, it is necessary to send "navigation flares" in the form of highly coordinated activities between large groups of people. In the ancient world, this appears to have been done in the form of "military training exercises" (e.g., the Game of Troy), which morphed into "Ariadne's Dance" at summer festivals. It happens "nightly during the first two weeks of August,", allowing more effective synchronization.


My attempt at a summary:

Now: Training labyrinths. When possible these should be synchronized across locations.

Starting tomorrow/May 16th (12 weeks before the opening ceremonies): Registered personal labyrinths

Now: Create the 27 labyrinth "knots" for the large-scale labyrinths. Eli seems to think that we need to register those too as "proof." Eli also describes these as being based on "military exercises" (so I might be wrong about the Game of Troy/dance thing, above), and suggests that all the knots have to be created before the summer solstice, June 21. This will restore the Earth-omphalos.

Beginning of August: "mass dancing" -- Larger groups undertake (nightly?) dances. This will increase multiverse synchronization and communication.

Olympic games/August 8: Olympic labyrinths. I assume that these are used to send the athletes home and to synchronize the world.

Closing ceremonies/August 24: We save the world, again. TheO pwnd.

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:14 pm
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 		applying mapping to known omphknot-cities
danteIL wrote:
4) Large-scale labyrinths (Codex, Chapter 23) -- for the purpose of actual two-way communication and travel between multiple worlds, but only during the year of an Olympics. Enabled through the creation of at least 27 large-scale labyrinths (i.e., the size of city blocks).


A "city block"? Wasn't there a post somewhere we were missing something with the Philadelphia map? Working Hypothesis: The Philadelphia map displays a Type 4 Labyrinth. (That was obvious to everybody.)

But:
If we need to start (temporarily) mapping Type 4 Labyrinths in those other cities - will it work? (I keep forgetting what other cities we might have identified so far - or not cities at all?)
We could try so do this in, say, San Francisco, to see whether that gets us somewhere (well, someone in SF could)? I do not think a GPS run will help us with the Omphaputer, but who knows?

And if we build a giant 7 circuit labyrinth in, say, San Francisco, do we need to get in touch with city authorities to switch all traffic lights to red to run the way blindfolded?

Also, can we add human walls to the earthen walls to give auditive guidance, as in the trainings, or would that be against something in the codex?

[Is my Dikaiosune strength finally coming though? ;-) Still feel like lagging awfully far behind in this thing ...]

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 pm
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 		The Philadelphia labyrinth is also unique is that does not follow the circular classic labyrinth models that are used everywhere else.

The center of it is at the city hall if that means anything. And I can see how its easier to use a rectangular design on city streets, but it's still an anomaly.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:07 pm
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AUZ505
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Khaos wrote:
Why should WE choose the labyrinth location ? As far as we know, we're in the one universe that stopped to do Multiversal Olympics but a lot of others still do regularly.

Shouldn't we look at the location already chosen in the other worlds instead ?

And we already have the tool to do this one-way communication (ie personnal labyrinth), don't we ?


Yes, that is also unclear for me. Eli also says the Design is known by Theo. So there is a fixed design with fixed 27 knots. He also said we can begin to design the labyrinths in the cities we have proof of. Which would be (if Eli's knowledge is proof enough):
- San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seoul, Buenos Aires, and Sao Paolo

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:48 pm
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unagi
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 		Do all the five cities have a rectangular lattice? The pickup place in Seoul seems to have a sort of lattice in its neighborhood.

By the way, oriental cities such us Seoul or Tokyo in Gaea might fall in the ocean in Pangaea, Gondwana and Neopangea Smile
(In addition, in those worlds it should be particularly difficult to follow the design described in Ch. 22, which says "The lines should cross the largest part of the surface area", if the word "surface" includes the ocean.)

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:23 pm
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ariock
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 		Some kind of big labyrinth in SF? And coordination with Kai....sounds like we've got a few things to talk to Kai about in SF....
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mr.judkins
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danteIL wrote:
So, it sounds to me like ol' Eli is expecting us to somehow decide on a large-scale labyrinth through these critical cities (and we only know 5 of the 27 so far), and then use GPS technology to 'transmit' the actual path of someone walking the entire labyrinth (as proof), to some kind of register or omphaputer. Yes?


Kai seems to think so - I forwarded him the above conversation, explaining that Eli makes it plain his help will be essential in achieving this - whatever the disagreements may be between them.

Here is the guts of his reply:

Kai wrote:
As for the stuff from Eli, there's a TON of information there. He's right, he and I used to argue a lot before he went off and left Ariadne to her own devices. I'm willing to put aside my differences of opinion if he is. I've been thinking about how to track this city-sized labyrinth thing, and I've found just the thing! Tracksticks!!! www.trackstick.com

I'll order a bunch, when you have a team ready to make labyrinths in the cities we know we need to make them, let me know and I'll send you a trackstick!


If you click through to the details about the Trackstick II, you can see examples of the result - looks pretty awesome to me.

So it looks like once we begin finding out which cities are required, we can get Kai to send tracksticks out to a representative there to walk the labyrinth pattern and mark it for all to see.

Which puts the ball in the court of those working to infiltrate TheO - we need to find out where they are concentrating their forces, for those are the cities where we'll need to map out labyrinths...


EDIT: Just to clairfy, what I read from this is that he will send one trackstick to each team in each city.

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:46 pm
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DavFlamerock
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 		:O SO AWESOME.

I am juiced about those tracksticks. I'm also juiced about the city-labyrinths. Perhaps on Saturday we should start talking mapping?

The SF run is still happening on Sat right?

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:23 am
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unagi
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danteIL wrote:
I know that I for one have gotten completely confused by the multiplicity of kinds of labyrinths that have suddenly appeared:


I'm also confused.

1) Which labyrinths can decrease the number of the worlds?
- Kai wrote at Ariadne's blog "we need a LOT more personal labyrinths to happen". Does this mean personal labyrinths can decrease the number? But he seems to gather a lot of people at New York, and it sounds like a training labyrinth, not a personal labyrinth.

2) Which labyrinths were described in Ch.10?
- I mean the phrase "a single world will often cause a simultaneous labyrinth to take place in six varied places". If this phrase is about Olympic labyrinths, will the six run at six different places?

3) Are training labyrinths for practices purposes only?

PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:30 am
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