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Websites (or website features) that PMs wish existed
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 778
Location: Wa.

Websites (or website features) that PMs wish existed
but have no interest in doing themselves.

Assuming that "security and control" are known factors that are constantly being addressed-

As a PM, if someone were to create a multi-ARG in-game website...

1.) What kind of websites or website features do you wish existed that you would consider using for your ARGs?

2.) How do you envision this working? How does it seem real but be in-game?

3.) What measures would have to be in place for you to feel comfortable utilizing such a site?

Please go CRAZY with your ideas.

notgordian wrote:
AngriBuddhist--because it seems there's been a lot of confusion in this thread, I'll try to explain in my own words what I think you're asking about.

Paraphrasing attempt begins now: You're interested in an IG news resource that allows puppetmasters to submit stories without breaking the curtain. The extent of it is uncertain, so if puppetmasters wanted more than news (although I do not know what that would entail) it would be allowable.


IG news resource is only one idea. Does anyone else have any?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:11 pm
Last edited by AngriBuddhist on Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:47 am; edited 5 times in total
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Rekidk
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 992
Location: Indiana, USA

Hm... I'm no PM, but if I were...

I'd like a resource of some sorts that would have real news feeds mixed in with IG-news from various games. In other words, in between articles about Prezzy Bush and Iraq, there'd be an obituary for a deceased character or an article describing a crime committed by a character. The real news could come from anywhere, and the IG-news could be submitted by PMs. I think this would work well for games that exist in the 'real world' and have events that would be in the news. It could add a touch of realism, especially if most of the news was real.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:11 pm
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
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It's a great idea. Any clue as to how a user could differentiate the real from the in-game?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:16 pm
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Rekidk
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Well, not being quite sure would be part of the fun, wouldn't it? Wink

Hm. Maybe not. XD

Articles with legitimate news could have sources cited (eg. AP, or New York Times), whereas articles with IG-news wouldn't have a specific source cited.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:38 pm
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redct
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Joined: 20 Jun 2007
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That is quite possible. There are plugins for blogs/web content systems (like Drupal, Mambo, etc) that allow you to embed RSS feeds from wherever you want into the content body.

Rekidk wrote:
Well, not being quite sure would be part of the fun, wouldn't it? Wink

Hm. Maybe not. XD

Articles with legitimate news could have sources cited (eg. AP, or New York Times), whereas articles with IG-news wouldn't have a specific source cited.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:05 pm
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
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Location: Wa.

To clarify-

As an example, the following hyperlink will take you to a post of mine. This post details the purpose and gives the address of an in-game website.

This site specifically targets an existing Unfiction audience (players of Iris). The username and password (which have been changed) allowed both Forum posting and access to the Members Only pages. These pages outlined the TOS and gave users OOG updates.

If you had not come to this site from Unfiction you would have no idea that it was anything other than what it claimed to be.

The idea was short lived for two reasons. First, the site was put together and went live three days after it was envisioned. Soon after it was found that the forums had a nasty little problem which killed player interaction. Second, the purpose for which it was created never became a part of the game.

The users were never told what to do. All they were given was the original post which contained the TOS. I myself only posted "admin" type things. The "Archived Forums- User News" and front page comments were completely created by users who read the front page post "We're Back".

From this example, I hope that you understand exactly what I mean when I say "In-Game".

On the flip-side though, even an idea like a wiki-type in-game character profile website could add legitimacy to web searches.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:35 am
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
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Location: Wa.

I can't believe that no one has anything to add with all the talk of wanting to-

-expand this medium beyond it's current audience.
-find a profitable business model.
-increase the depth and realism in ARGs.

Are you all content with the restrictions you have right now?

Do you want to have to recreate each "public information" type website each time you create an ARG?

Beyond what your characters actually "say" do you think that their AIM profiles are as in-depth as they need to be?

Is dropping a trailhead in an Unfiction forum or to a Unfiction moderator the best you can ever hope for?

If there were a website or a group of websites that existed solely for the dissemination of your information in a realistic, in-game, safe, anonymous way that offered you complete control why wouldn't you be interested in using it? Or in the least offering your ideas to see what could be done with them?

Are we already in the "this is how it's always been done" state of mind?

How can you hope to expand the medium if we don't also expand what it's capable of and how different aspects of it are delivered?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:24 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

AngriBuddhist wrote:
I can't believe that no one has anything to add ...

How can you hope to expand the medium if we don't also expand what it's capable of and how different aspects of it are delivered?

wow, you gave people barely 24 hours to reply?

I'm also not sure how the initial post for "a multi-ARG in-game website" is tied to all of the other things you're accusing PMs of in this last post.

(i'm still searching for the original thread that discussed similar ideas)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:59 pm
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konamouse
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

catherwood wrote:
(i'm still searching for the original thread that discussed similar ideas)


Here (started by Angri as well).

I'm still not quite sure I totally understand WHAT it is you are seeking? A website not connected to ARGN nor UF that has real world news and information on it, but where a PM can drop a rabbithole?

Uhm, Craig's List comes to mind.
eBay has been used (be careful with their TOS though).
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:05 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

konamouse wrote:
catherwood wrote:
(i'm still searching for the original thread that discussed similar ideas)


Here (started by Angri as well).

Earlier than yesterday. In his post here from several weeks ago, he says, "I've seen threads here discussing the need for a site that has real news feeds that is open to PMs for posting there fake news stories." And I remember reading about that, but I can't find those original threads. I'll keep searching.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:13 pm
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RedHatty
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Joined: 08 May 2006
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Oh, I think the first discussion came up with something found during the Vanishing Point game, a web site that *someone* commented would be a great place for a rabbit hole to be posted.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:48 pm
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 778
Location: Wa.

catherwood wrote:
wow, you gave people barely 24 hours to reply?


Yes, I only gave 24 hours yet there were over 80 views of this as of that last post. Seeing as the traffic in this forum is VERY slow I would (maybe mistakingly) assume that most of it's visitors are the ones who would have an opinion.

Quote:
I'm also not sure how the initial post for "a multi-ARG in-game website" is tied to all of the other things you're accusing PMs of in this last post.


Accusing? Really? Since when has questioning someone's decisions automatically become accusation? If I was to begin accusing anyone of anything it would go something like this-

Why is it that at the largest ARG site on the entire planet, for a medium that desparately needs to expand and legitamize itself, does the sole forum for discussion of creating said medium have only 4 pages in it after over 4 years of existence?

That would be where I would start and there is plenty more ammunition throught those 4 pages that I could continue the war with. That, however, is not my intent no matter which way you choose to take it.

Quote:
(i'm still searching for the original thread that discussed similar ideas)


If you like, and I'm not sure why you seem to need me to, I will go back through the forum and find the posts that I'm refering to. I don't know how that will change the validty of my original or secondary questions though. Or how it will change the fact that I have somehow offended you.

konamouse wrote:
I'm still not quite sure I totally understand WHAT it is you are seeking?


I am asking PMs or even someone who has thought of ideas to share with me what they wish a website, which for all intensive purposes appeared in-game (no statements as to an ARG being a game) could offer them and how they see it working. I want to know what they might have imagined but have no desire to commit their time or resources to. I'm really confused by the fact that my first post hasn't made this clear.

Ideas such as rekidk's "rss news feed" are exactly the kind that I'm talking about. I'm not looking for particular sites just ideas for sites.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:02 pm
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

I think you need to ask some PMs directly - cause those who work for the big companies probably don't read this section anymore.

I think this area was set up originally as training ground when the genre was still an infant. And then an area where grassroots PMs could read through and learn ideas.

It's a valid question, but 80 views with few comments is not unheard of. Please don't assume that everyone has an idea or opinion. Or that everyone interested in the topic checks this area every time they log in.

Try some honey instead of vinegar. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:18 pm
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colin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
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Location: Australia

I’m not exactly sure what you’re looking at trying to achieve here.[/quote]

AngriBuddhist wrote:
-expand this medium beyond it's current audience.

I don’t see how putting up another website helps that happen, unless you are going to advertise it’s presence. If you are going to advertise it, most well just advertise uf instead
AngriBuddhist wrote:
-find a profitable business model.

Again, I don’t know how what you’re proposing has anything to do with a profitable business model
AngriBuddhist wrote:
-increase the depth and realism in ARGs.

I don’t see how this will be achieved with forums anyway. Also immersion unlimited exists for this now.

AngriBuddhist wrote:
Are you all content with the restrictions you have right now?

Not sure what restrictions you are talking about….

AngriBuddhist wrote:
Do you want to have to recreate each "public information" type website each time you create an ARG?

Not sure what you mean by that. We have UF forums and anybody can put up a wiki, it’s not a big deal.

AngriBuddhist wrote:
Beyond what your characters actually "say" do you think that their AIM profiles are as in-depth as they need to be?

Regardless of what I think, it’s the PM’s design choice and responsibility for what they present. Sure, We can give them feedback and what we like/don’t like, but again I don’t see what this has to do multi-ARG IG website.

AngriBuddhist wrote:
Is dropping a trailhead in an Unfiction forum or to a Unfiction moderator the best you can ever hope for?

Again, PM responsibility. If I don’t like the game launch I’ll vote with my feet and not play. How would dropping a trailhead on a site that’s made for dropping trailheads be any more impressive?

AngriBuddhist wrote:
If there were a website or a group of websites that existed solely for the dissemination of your information in a realistic, in-game, safe, anonymous way that offered you complete control why wouldn't you be interested in using it? Or in the least offering your ideas to see what could be done with them?

Why? Because the world the websites create doesn’t mesh with mine. You’ll never have ‘complete control’ the website will all be out of your control, you will be relying on people that have no obligation to you. That’s a risk.

AngriBuddhist wrote:
Are we already in the "this is how it's always been done" state of mind?

I think that’s rhetorical, but I’ll answer yes anyway.

AngriBuddhist wrote:
How can you hope to expand the medium if we don't also expand what it's capable of and how different aspects of it are delivered?

Still comes back to the PM’s responsibility.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:15 pm
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 778
Location: Wa.

I'll try to reply to all of you as logically as I can. Somehow, either I've miscommunicated, you've misunderstood, or multiple people totally disagree with me. Strange though that rekidk immediately understood where I was coming from and responded with a suggestion that fit into an aspect of what I'm pondering.

First...

konamouse wrote:
It's a valid question, but 80 views with few comments is not unheard of. Please don't assume that everyone has an idea or opinion. Or that everyone interested in the topic checks this area every time they log in.

Try some honey instead of vinegar.


I understand your point but I honestly don't feel as if that post contained vinegar.

The first part of my post-

AngriBuddhist wrote:
I can't believe that no one has anything to add with all the talk of wanting to-

-expand this medium beyond it's current audience.
-find a profitable business model.
-increase the depth and realism in ARGs.


collin, is there a comment here that claims that my ideas will address any of these issues? As a matter of fact, from the beginning of this thread, I have wanted to find out what others, who should want to address these issues, would want if someone were to create a site or group of sites to support the needs of PMs. There are avenues that are not being explored and I'm just wondering if anyone has imagined them.

AngriBuddhist wrote:
Are you all content with the restrictions you have right now?

Do you want to have to recreate each "public information" type website each time you create an ARG?

Beyond what your characters actually "say" do you think that their AIM profiles are as in-depth as they need to be?

Is dropping a trailhead in an Unfiction forum or to a Unfiction moderator the best you can ever hope for?

If there were a website or a group of websites that existed solely for the dissemination of your information in a realistic, in-game, safe, anonymous way that offered you complete control why wouldn't you be interested in using it? Or in the least offering your ideas to see what could be done with them?


I will address catherwood, here, as a reply to collin's thorough dissection will take this is an entirely new direction.

Can you honestly look at the News and Rumors, the CF with Potential, and all of the games with individual forums and tell me that at least one of these questions doesn't apply to the majority of them?

If you cannot then how could any of these questions be considered "accusations"? They are simply reflections of reality. If you can tell me that the majority of all the existing games currently being played at Unifction do not deserve to have one of those questions asked of them, then I see why the tension exists and will not attempt to explain myself to you any further.

Maybe my reply to collin will clear up some confusion about these questions. I'm honestly quite surprised at the reaction to this and probably have take a little time to phrase my responses.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:44 am
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