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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[BEIJING]The 5 + 1
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AUZ505
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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DavFlamerock wrote:
Okay I got this idea this morning but couldn't post it until now.

Five and One.

First off, all of the athletes are from other worlds--that's why they had amnesia. However, remember that Jorge remembered his world as another Gaia world.

Now here's the catch--something that has been suggested before but is an assumption--is that our world is the core or stem Gaia world, which is why it's so important that our world is the one they save. Anyway, assuming again that our world is the core Gaia world, then remember that Ariadne kept having visions of other worlds collapsing, worlds that her family lived, and remember that she kept saying that she couldn't return home...

Now imagine that Alex came from a Gaia world, and all the worlds she could return to are gone. Logically she'd want to return to a Gaia world... but if all the ones in which she lives are gone, then why not stay here?

Thus, the other 5 leave, and Alex remains.


O do not thing tht all but one Gaea world are destroyed. Look at the Rungraph. There is no line dropped that far.
But I also think that Alex is from Gaea:
- She had visions of a lot of her worlds destroyed and Gaea worlds are the one that most likely will be destroyed (see Codex).
- She had a lot of visions where there is still a Alex on the other world. Which is clear because she never left.

Regarding the last point: I think it is normal that the world where you have visions of had a parallel version of yourself, isn't it? Else you could not align with your parallel self??
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:22 am
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jasper
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 		I wrote to Eli about my ideas. Got a fairly generic reply.

Quote:
Hello Jasper,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have thinking about this quite
a lot myself, as well.

I am increasingly weary that we are missing something crucial. I have
tried to be confident in our Beijing plan for the allies' sake. But as
a historian, I am worried we have not learned enough from the past.

We are working under the theory that one ally MUST remain, and we have
based this theory on the fact that one or the original travelers
stayed to found The Opposition.

But was that traveler forced to stay by the 5 + 1 principle, or did
that traveler choose to stay, based on a desire to oppose the other
agonothetai?

How did the six get here in the first place, if one must stay behind
when six travel?

The best information I comes from my own experience, which I admit is
limited by the fact that we suffered memory loss at Delphi during the
moment of travel.

But why was Toria able to go home? This question I cannot escape. I
knew so little then compared to what I know now.

Please help advise if you can.

Sincerely yours,

Eli Hunt

So one thing Tenchizard suggests is right: you don't have to travel to experience the amnesia.


Also I just saw a tweet from Ari/Alex that seems to mean she believes she's from Gaea:
Quote:
ariadnelost COLD FEET. did a personal labyrinth. sync'd with myself 2 months ago, me before I saw all the Gaea worlds collapse. SHE has a home. i don't.

and one from Diego indicating that he is not:
Quote:
malabar_diego despidiendome de mis amigos gaeos


PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:56 pm
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Tenchizard
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 		Ok, here goes a rather wild theory...

maybe the 5+1 not only means that 5 athlethes must be doing something, while the other is doing something else... maybe they are compiting against each other. And at the end, the winner travels... so, if the 5 win, they all travel, and if the 1 wins, only he/she travels. Or even the other way around... the loser going home and all.

Going back to Jorge's time, that would have been what happened: the 5 won, and the 1 left here created Theo? Even the loser going away theory could somehow fit here...

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:57 am
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jasper
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 		Competing? I've been assuming the 6 are a team working together for the goal, but in the modern olympics there are plenty of "teams" who work together in some events and compete head on in others. Maybe the Labyrinth team sport does become an individual competition in the end. That suggests more questions, though.

More e-mail input from Eli:

I said: "I can't help thinking that the 5 + 1 principal exists because not all 6 travelers have the same kind of journey to make. One of them is "traveling" to this Gaea world type, while he others have a larger leap to make to a world with different land forms. Do you think this idea is wrong headed?"

He replied:
Quote:
Hello Jasper,

I do not think it wrong-headed at all. I think you may be right, that
all six travel, but that traveling to a Gaea world from this Gaea
world is somehow a different process.

But how?

I don't think the 11-circuit labyrinth has to do with it, as they seem
to be separate preparations...


PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:18 am
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Tenchizard
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 		Hmm... So, travelling to another world, when the destiny world is the same type as the origin is different.

So, if Alex is really from a Gaea world, she may not be travelling physically, but... maybe she will "merge" this world with her world, reducing the number of worlds, and both going to that world and remaining here at the same time?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:32 am
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danteIL
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 		Okay now reading back I'm thinking that Eli was trying to confuse us on purpose:

Quote:
<EliHunt> If we choose one to stay behind, is that person de facto the runner for the final labyrinth?


WTF is the 'final labyrinth'?

Candidates:
a) the 11-circuit labyrinth. But we know now that this is more of a mass "dance" that doesn't involve running in the traditional sense.

b) the Olympic labyrinth. But we know that the teams who are running the official olympic labyrinths are choosing their runners for other reasons. Besides, the Olympic labyrinths have nothing to do with sending people home, as far as I can tell.

c) Some other labyrinth that Eli has neglected to tell us about?? Are the 5+1 somehow supposed to do a 'final labyrinth' while doing the official cheer on the Great Wall during the Closing Ceremonies? Toria was doing a personal labyrinth when she disappeared. That was certainly 'final' for her...

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:17 pm
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jasper
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danteIL wrote:
Okay now reading back I'm thinking that Eli was trying to confuse us on purpose:


Thank you! I was convinced that the 11 circuit was what was meant by the final labyrinth. And now that he says they will do it days in advance, it puts my 5+1 theory to rest.

Poor Eli. He really has no ideas how multiversal travel takes place and he doesn't want to admit it to the 6 travelers.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:28 pm
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Canzonett
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 		Just received a CC of the following mail from Eli to AUZ505:

Quote:
Hello AUZ,

This is an excellent theory. It has sparked many ideas in me. I hope you don't mind, I am including several other allies on this message -- allies who have also been very helpful in thinking through the 5 + 1 and flare navigation problems.

If the Gaea ally travels via a different process, one that is closer to personal alignment than flare navigation, I wonder if perhaps a different location is required as well?

It occurs to me suddenly: Perhaps Delphi worked in 2004 not because it was the "nearest monumental wave", but because it is the site of the original omphalos. Is Delphi an active alignment site whenever the Olympic Games achieve peak athletic synchronisation? This would explain why Toria was able to travel or align without our omphalos network being completed.

If this theoyr is correct, does team agonothetai require someone at Delphi? Or is it optional? Is Delphi the only site were Alex could travel?

This creates a few ethical dilemmas.

If I am wrong about my theory, and I ask Alex to go to Delphi instead of Beijing, she may lose her only chance of going home, and team agonothetai will be without their true dikaiosune. We could ask James to take over that role for the team, but given his history with Theo, I am wary of placing such trust in him.

Meanwhile, Alex is not even sure if she wants to travel. Placing her at Delphia could be a risk, if having someone willing to align at Delphi is key to the success of the 5 + 1 process.

There is so much to consider and so little time. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Sincerely yours,

Eli Hunt



> Dear Eli,
>
> I have a 'new' theory:
> I guess the multiversal travel is only needed if you want to travel from one
> world type (e.g. Gaea) to another type (e.g. Kondorland). And only 5 of the
> six need to do this.
>
> The +1 person needs not to travel via the multiversal procedure.
> I guess instead he has to do a personal labyrinth to merge this world with
> the one he original came from.
> And I guess that is exactly what Toria did. I assume she came from a Gaea
> world and has "travelled" via personal alignment. That's why she could
> travel without flares and without 11-circuit-rings (and that is why Renata
> would not have been able to travel at all)
>
> Another important thing:
> If you want to align with your parallel world you could only do this with a
> world where you have not left. When one lefts his Gaea world there will be
> immediately a world be generated where this person has not left. The task is
> to align with exactly this person. (I do not know how!)
>
> And last but not least:
> How did our Gaea person get here on our world? Not easy to answer.
> One possibility, he/she was always here. Went to a labyrinth, put on some
> blindfold and took something that makes him/her sleep and forget everything.
> And finally wakes up like all the others. To return this person has to align
> with the parallel self that decided not to take the forget-everything-stuff.
>
> Problem: Why is no-one remembering this person after he/she woke up?
>
> Best Regards
> AUZ505


PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:48 am
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ariock
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 		I also received the email from Eli...

I've responded with this:

ME!!! wrote:
I think the only reason you might have to mistrust James would be if he were to attempt to prevent other allies from traveling in order to ensure his own ability to travel. I would liken it to a person on a sinking ship taking all of the life vests, thinking that with ALL of them, their survival is ensured. Illogical, but a potential concern, and as we all know, love is illogical.

On the other hand, if Toria went to a Gaia world originally and travelled there....and James is obviously from a Gaia world and wants to travel to be with Toria, wouldn't he be the logical choice to go to Delphi?

Just a thought.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:42 pm
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Shad0
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 		Re: [BEIJING]The 5 + 1
Re: Eli's email
I don't buy Eli's theory. [META]Which certainly doesn't mean that it's wrong; just that it doesn't make sense to me.[/META] If one of the six has to travel to a different location -- Delphi or otherwise -- then why wouldn't that rather significant detail be included with the other instructions on the Sixth Ring? According to the Codex, the agonothetai from 1920 knew where they had to stand, and included that information on the sixth ring. So why does the ring mention only the "monumental wave"?

Hypothetically, I suppose it is possible that the 1920 six simply got it wrong -- that they didn't know one of them had to be at Delphi. That could be why one of them ended up left behind, and also possibly why he/she was upset enough to found TheO in retaliation. But if that were the explanation, then why would the sixth ring say "five and one" in the first place?

No, I believe the writers of the Codex must have known what the sixth person was meant to do, and must have included that information somewhere on the Lost Rings. We're just missing it.

(Would someone on Eli's cc: list care to share this with him?)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:07 pm
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ariock
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 		Re: [BEIJING]The 5 + 1
Re: Eli's email
Shad0 wrote:
I don't buy Eli's theory. [META]Which certainly doesn't mean that it's wrong; just that it doesn't make sense to me.[/META]


I sent just this part to Eli just now.

I mean everything BUT this part. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:21 pm
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jasper
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Quote:
(Would someone on Eli's cc: list care to share this with him?)


I got cc'd too. I don't mind telling him he's wrong. I think a theory he introduces with "It occurs to me suddenly" is totally suspect because it was probably suggested to him by his TheO supporting parallel self when he wasn't looking.

Disagreeing with him via e-mail is at least as fun as getting steered this way and that by whatever hints suddenly occur to Eli.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:28 pm
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Tenchizard
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 		If the original 6 knew where to stand, and they did all travel (but one), and if that one really created Theo... I think Theo would know what the +1 means. I wrote Eli suggesting maybe he should try to contact the rest of the worlds trough omphalos to ask, or theo.

Maybe someone can convince Eli of running himself a personal labyrinth, he may have some kind of vision of what to do.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:15 am
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Canzonett
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 		New blogpost from Alex: Delphi vs. Beijing.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:16 am
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jasper
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Canzonett wrote:
New blogpost from Alex: Delphi vs. Beijing.


So, does Eli consider himself the oracle? The Oracle at Delphi was always breathing fumes, wasn't she?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:14 am
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