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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[MISSION] Earth Omphalos - send 'em home!
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Canzonett
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[MISSION] Earth Omphalos - send 'em home!

So here we are, designing and constructing our earth-scale omphalos knots in cities all around the world. The BIG question is: Will this be sufficient so create an omphalos strong enough to send our six athletes (plus James) back to their home worlds resp. to their loved ones?

According to the omphaputer, our total omphalos strength is calculated by adding the knot strenghts of the different cities - which in their turn are calculated by means of the formula (C x S)/6, with C=number of circuits and S=width in stadia.
However: Is the resulting number equal to a percentage (of what?)? Or is it just a number that must be transformed further in order to achieve a truly meaningful result?

And can we be sure that the knots' strength alone will be high enough? Probably not. What else is needed?
(1) The lost rings (or THE lost ring)?
(2) The strengths of all our six athletes combined?
How about Markus then? What if he has dropped out just like Kentauro did in the 2004 team, leaving the group without a Thumos? Can his loss be compensated? Or isn't he lost at all?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:07 am
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ariock
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Kai said, "We have to get this world's omphalos strength up to at least 100%, and probably more according to some math a few of our sofia have worked up." which means to me that it's supposed to be a percentage.
[Meta]Just regarding the math, this is a pretty stretched percentage. For it to be a percentage, the calculation would essentially be {Sum(C x S)/600}x 100%. The value six hundred would have to relate somehow to the total of the C's multiplied by the S's, but I can't see a connection there. Perhaps it is (6 agonothetai x 100 somethings per agon)[/Meta] Whatever the math, according to Kai it appears that we're trying to get a sum of K's that will be >= 100.

Regarding your questions, according to James: "The thing is, after working with Theo, I realize that in 2004, they never had a chance to send all six. They never had The Lost Rings, which are the only source of information for how to send the entire team home. The ompth strength was only part of the problem."

So if there is a requirement for all six agon's to be there, we don't know it yet. But that may be mentioned on the Lost Rings.

The strength of HMRPita's first SF labyrinth design was 120, but it appears now that it won't work due to the downtown buildings being too tall. She's got a new one that's over 20. Hopefully she'll be able to post it today.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:37 pm
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AUZ505
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We even need a much higher omph strength if we want to send more than six people. James mentioned he really wants to see Toria again and probably Renata want also back home.

James wrote:

All right, so I just... I just... I just saw Toria and
she said there is a chance I can ...
If we get the Omph Strength higher
more than just six can travel...


PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:57 pm
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bryanflurry
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Multiple Omphalabyrinths?

edit:

I guess that's too much, I think adding a couple more circuits would do and it will greatly increase the Omph strength, as I see it on the formula.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:40 pm
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ariock
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AUZ505 wrote:
We even need a much higher omph strength if we want to send more than six people. James mentioned he really wants to see Toria again and probably Renata want also back home.

James wrote:

All right, so I just... I just... I just saw Toria and
she said there is a chance I can ...
If we get the Omph Strength higher high enough
more than just six can travel...


Right now it is just six. Ariadne (Alex) isn't going, and James will take her place.

Also, what are you basing this on: "We even need a much higher omph strength"?

Higher than what? Than 100? How do you know that? The words you quoted (which I fixed) are just referring to an Omph Strength higher than it was four years ago. Which, according to the Omphaputer, was zero...

Edit: The omphaputer says FALSE for the Omph Strength. I don't know what that means, but it tells me it wasn't anything good.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:25 pm
Last edited by ariock on Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Canzonett
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Which might be a good idea. Otherwise Kai could turn into another James ...

I wonder if we'll ever geth to see (or meet) the whole team of athletes in one place.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:38 pm
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AUZ505
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ariock wrote:
AUZ505 wrote:
We even need a much higher omph strength if we want to send more than six people. James mentioned he really wants to see Toria again and probably Renata want also back home.

James wrote:

All right, so I just... I just... I just saw Toria and
she said there is a chance I can ...
If we get the Omph Strength higher high enough
more than just six can travel...


Right now it is just six. Ariadne (Alex) isn't going, and James will take her place.

Also, what are you basing this on: "We even need a much higher omph strength"?

Higher than what? Than 100? How do you know that? The words you quoted (which I fixed) are just referring to an Omph Strength higher than it was four years ago. Which, according to the Omphaputer, was zero...

Edit: The omphaputer says FALSE for the Omph Strength. I don't know what that means, but it tells me it wasn't anything good.


I guess the important part is: "more than just six can travel". Even if perhaps I also got this wrong Smile

[EDIT] Forget to answer your question: I just meant higher than if 6 travellers need to travel (without knowing how high this has to be)
[SPEC] Perhaps if 6 Travelers should travel you need (CxS)/6 = 100, and if 7 have to travel you need (CxS)/7 = 100, and so on...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:55 pm
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ariock
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AUZ505 wrote:
[EDIT] Forget to answer your question: I just meant higher than if 6 travellers need to travel (without knowing how high this has to be)
[SPEC] Perhaps if 6 Travelers shold travel you need (CxS)/6 = 100, and if 7 have to travel you need (CxS)/7 = 100, and so on...


Somehow I didn't see your comment about Renata. So yes, it could be as high as 7 if she wants to go. or even 8 if Kintaro wants to go as well.

So, assuming the denominator is the number of travellers and multiplying out, Sum(C x S) = 700 or 800. For example, while the SF labyrinth strength is looking like 25ish, that's dividing it by six. The CxS is actually 150. If the other cities can get 7-circuit labyrinths that are a mile across, they'd have CxS's of just over 60. At that rate, we'd need a total of 11 more to get eight travelers out.

ETA...why yes, I AM sofia, why do you ask?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:19 pm
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AUZ505
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What make me wonder is the omph strengthes of the past. They have been very low and 2004 there was even OMPH FALSE (see 2004.inf from the omphaputer) nevertheless at least one traveller was able to travel.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:22 pm
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lhall
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This thread gets an A+ for extremely high usefulness and clever content, so a bit THANK YOU to everyone who's posted so far! Smile

I wanted to add that in her latest video, Ariadne talks about how she can't go back, her home world is destroyed and although she had a vision with her mother in it, there's an Alex that's still there, so they couldn't exist in the same place at the same time. So maybe she'll stay with Kai and James can go in her place? Plus the 2004 people if they're game. Just a thought!

I need to calculate the strengths of the various Dallas labyrinths... interesting stuff.

Someone earlier suggested that June 21 is the last date for labyrinth-running - is that true?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 pm
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Khaos
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As one of the Sofias Kai mentionned (i had long argument with other sofias on IRC and there), i can assure you that the number you get by doing the "C x S / 6" formula is NOT a percentage.

That's the only thing we proven for sure. Trust the Sofias on that (the math explanation has been put in the linked thread, on second page, by sapagoo)

So the last point that bother us regarding the earth-omphalos strenght is : what number equals 100% ?

If that number is greater than around 300, we'll have to make, at least, 27 omphalabyrinth the size of the philadelphia one.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:36 am
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Canzonett
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Is the final omphalos strength really determined by the strength of the single omphalos knots alone or by other factors as well? This is a factor that we don't seem to possess reliable information about. The Bangalore artifact might help, but until it has been found, no one can be sure. Unless we can squeeze a little more info out of James.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:35 pm
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Canzonett
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New food for our speculations about the relation between omph strenght, Earth Omphalos percentage value and the power of the resulting multiversal portal can be found in Ariadne's latest blogpost, which quotes Eli Hunt as follows:

Quote:

By our team calculations, our world's omph strength should soon be 36.17. Already, that means TWO allies should be able to return home from Beijing, IF we complete the entire net across the globe. Remember, it doesn't matter how powerful our knots are, if the net is only half-formed. The codex tells us clearly: Our next must drape itself over 85% of the earth's surface. We must pay special attention to building the northermost and southernmost knots possible, to make sure we have made a true omphalos out of the Earth itself.


So:
Manila - omph strength=3.97
San Francisco - omph strenght=32.8?

And how does the resulting number relate to the number of people who will be able to pass through the portal?

Interesting to read what Ariadne herself has to say about this:

Quote:
I admit I don't quite understand the omph strength calculations(remember, I'm very dikaiosune, and not even a little bit sofia!!)


PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:08 pm
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AUZ505
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Canzonett wrote:
New food for our speculations about the relation between omph strenght, Earth Omphalos percentage value and the power of the resulting multiversal portal can be found in Ariadne's latest blogpost, which quotes Eli Hunt as follows:

Quote:

By our team calculations, our world's omph strength should soon be 36.17. Already, that means TWO allies should be able to return home from Beijing, IF we complete the entire net across the globe. Remember, it doesn't matter how powerful our knots are, if the net is only half-formed. The codex tells us clearly: Our next must drape itself over 85% of the earth's surface. We must pay special attention to building the northermost and southernmost knots possible, to make sure we have made a true omphalos out of the Earth itself.


So:
Manila - omph strength=3.97
San Francisco - omph strenght=32.8?

And how does the resulting number relate to the number of people who will be able to pass through the portal?


Sorry for quoting now my own post Wink

AUZ505 wrote:

[SPEC] Perhaps if 6 Travelers should travel you need (CxS)/6 = 100, and if 7 have to travel you need (CxS)/7 = 100, and so on...


If my speculation is correct, then you would need a CxS = 200 for two people. With Manila and SF we have: CxS = 36.17 x 6 = 217,02.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:14 pm
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ariock
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Canzonett wrote:
New food for our speculations about the relation between omph strenght, Earth Omphalos percentage value and the power of the resulting multiversal portal can be found in Ariadne's latest blogpost, which quotes Eli Hunt as follows:

Quote:

By our team calculations, our world's omph strength should soon be 36.17. Already, that means TWO allies should be able to return home from Beijing, IF we complete the entire net across the globe. Remember, it doesn't matter how powerful our knots are, if the net is only half-formed. The codex tells us clearly: Our next must drape itself over 85% of the earth's surface. We must pay special attention to building the northermost and southernmost knots possible, to make sure we have made a true omphalos out of the Earth itself.


So:
Manila - omph strength=3.97
San Francisco - omph strenght=32.8?

And how does the resulting number relate to the number of people who will be able to pass through the portal?


To be safe, we need a strength of about 108 for six people. 144 for eight people.
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When the Apocalypse comes, it'll be in base64.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:58 pm
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