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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: MetaCortechs » MetaCortechs: Puzzles
[SPEC] Figuring out the story line
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joebrent
Unfettered


Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 640
Location: New York, sometimes

MWAM would be an awful waste of a lot of previous dialogue, considering the lengths they have gone to show Neo is "only human."

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:44 pm
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Omnie
Entrenched


Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772

joebrent wrote:
MWAM would be an awful waste of a lot of previous dialogue, considering the lengths they have gone to show Neo is "only human."


Oh, that brings up another fascinating point. Is he? Why would they go to such lengths to keep confirming something that is obvious and unquestioned? No one's arguing, so why do they need to defend that point? I have some theories on this, but I'm almost positive no one really wants to hear me babble some more about these sorts of things.

I don't really see how this disproves MWAM, though. I mean, Neo is still human, even if he is plugged into the Matrix, so he'd be human in Zion even if he were plugged into that artificial world through another level.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:36 pm
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ecwilder
Boot

Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 10

omnie, if you watch 2, they say a few times he's 'still' only human... but at the end of 2 i dont think he is anymore Smile.

at the end of 2 he has became an EXILE like smith and mero. etc.

his purpose was to return to the source. he chose exile. and now his 'machine mind'? is no longer connected to the machine mainframe and he can affect the machine world..?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:52 pm
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Omnie
Entrenched


Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772

ecwilder wrote:
omnie, if you watch 2, they say a few times he's 'still' only human... but at the end of 2 i dont think he is anymore Smile.

at the end of 2 he has became an EXILE like smith and mero. etc.

his purpose was to return to the source. he chose exile. and now his 'machine mind'? is no longer connected to the machine mainframe and he can affect the machine world..?


Er, but if you accept the fact that he has a machine mind, then how was he ever a human in the first place? My little theory (which I don't insist upon, it's just an idea...and not really mine anyway, it was formulated by lots of people on the TLFC board...) is that Neo is actually partly a program...his mind is a program. Hey, if it could happen to Bane, why not Neo? This would explain all the Architect's talk of the systemic anomaly and all that...the anomaly is a programming problem...it's code. This particular bit of code has learned to love and to be irrational, to have irrational hope (the quintessential human delusion...)...he has quite a bit to teach the machines. I'm not all that convinced of this anymore, but it's interesting, isn't it? So all the "he is still only human" would either be ironic foreshadowing or some knowledgable mocking by the Agents - i.e., he still thinks he is human, haha, the idiot, so we can take him out because he hasn't realized his full potential or the truth about his nature.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:56 pm
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spikefruit
Greenhorn

Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 3
Location: PA

graah. jeez, i was in that conversation at tlfc, i thought those people would have found the truth by now. its obvious. neo is human. thats all there is to it. he may be a little different from the others, but he still remains "irrevocably human." the reason he is the one is because he is the anomaly, the one percent of the crop that doesnt accept the program, that one percent are the anomalies. there can be more than one anomaly, since it is based on percentage. for every 99 people grown 1 anomaly is born. the other freed people who are not "ones" were FREED, not on their own but thru someone elses help. kay? whew.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:19 pm
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Omnie
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772

spikefruit wrote:
graah. jeez, i was in that conversation at tlfc, i thought those people would have found the truth by now. its obvious. neo is human. thats all there is to it. he may be a little different from the others, but he still remains "irrevocably human." the reason he is the one is because he is the anomaly, the one percent of the crop that doesnt accept the program, that one percent are the anomalies. there can be more than one anomaly, since it is based on percentage. for every 99 people grown 1 anomaly is born. the other freed people who are not "ones" were FREED, not on their own but thru someone elses help. kay? whew.


Well, I did say that I didn't insist on it...it's a fascinating idea, I think. There's no need to get all huffy about it. And your post actually doesn't make any sense, if I could point that out... Every 1/99 people become the One, except that they are freed...and Neo wasn't, so he is The One, while they were just random anomalies? You think the difference with him is just that he stayed in there until he was 37? I'm definitely not buying that. Yes, all the Zionites are representations of the statistical anomaly, but Neo is different in some fundamental way. He's the...how did architect dude put it?...the eventuality of the anomaly. Eventuality = "an event which comes as a consequence" according to dictionary.com. All the anomalies, all the free minds, culminated in him, the mind that can see past all the boundaries. He hasn't yet (seen past everything, I mean), but I'm willing to bet he will in Revolutions.

I'm getting off topic...as for Neo being human...
"Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love."

Architect dude flat out says it. The Ones are designed...the machines learned that the earlier Ones weren't quite working, so they made this One feel a specific attachment. Hence the Oracle and all her meddling...she made Neo and Trinity fall in love. I can back that up with evidence if you want me to. But then she herself became "converted" (to...Neoism? cool name for a cult) by the appeal of humanity. Wouldn't all that be cool? I'm willing to keep an open mind about all this, I just think that is an interesting possibility.

[Edit] BTW, are we talking about the same conversation? The Zkulptor thread? I don't think he's an insider, but the philosophy and theories on that thread were some of the best I'd ever read on a Matrix forum. Hehe, you probably wouldn't agree with that. Very Happy

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:25 pm
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Mooni
Boot

Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Australia

Quote:
The Ones are designed...the machines learned that the earlier Ones weren't quite working, so they made this One feel a specific attachment.


That might also explain the extended sex scene between Neo and Trinity. Man and machine, finally brought together to create - what? A hybrid human-machine?

<humour ON> Maybe Revolutions will be about Neo and Trinity's twins, who, seperated at birth, must overcome enormous odds to discover their true identities ... oh wait ... that's another movie ... Wink
<humor OFF>

As to that incident with the squiddies at the end of M2, you don't need a MWAM to explain it away. What if, after visiting the Source, Neo didn't disconnect from the Matrix? What if he's retained some kind of connection to the machine mainframe and is now able to interract in both the real and virtual worlds?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 12:25 am
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ecwilder
Boot

Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 10

neo is a machine!!!

the architect tells him his purpose is now to return to the source (where programs go when their 'purpose' has been served)... where there will be a temporary dissimilation of the code he carries.... Neo carried CODE w/in him... he's a program.

when he doesnt go to the source, for the first time the machines have lost control. tthey now have the most powerful program theyve ever created as an exile and no longer playing their control game they had set up..

also, i love when he's talking to the architect, and near the end when he's making his decision, every tv displays only one choice, where before eh had many choices he was thinking about.. but then w/ trinity there was only one option.... cool. Very Happy

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:18 am
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Jarl
Greenhorn

Joined: 19 Oct 2003
Posts: 5
Location: Somewhere far, far away...

Heh. Just thought of something.
"The code you carry inside you..."
We assume that this code is something that's always been a part of Neo. but...
We know that the uber-programs (Merovingian) like writing mini-programs into the form of food. Perhaps (and this has been discussed at length on Corona Productions and Cinescape) the Oracle does this aw well, vis-a-vis the cookie and the (red pill)candy. Thus, the sum of these two programs record events in the real world (via a mental program, like smith/bane) and compute the possible ways of nullifying future behavior of the same kind.

-I'll post more tomorrow.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:54 am
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Valandil
Kilroy

Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 1

Just a theory my friend worked out today...not sure if it's been thought of before.

Smith wants to take over the Matrix. His main goal is to infect every person inside. Somehow by the end of Reloaded and the beginning of Revolutions, he has succeeded. Since he also took over the Agents and other programs, he has control over all the machines. It wasn't Neo who stopped the Sentinels, it was Smith. That's as much as he told me, but I thought it was very interesting.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:41 am
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Omnie
Entrenched


Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772

Valandil wrote:
Just a theory my friend worked out today...not sure if it's been thought of before.

Smith wants to take over the Matrix. His main goal is to infect every person inside. Somehow by the end of Reloaded and the beginning of Revolutions, he has succeeded. Since he also took over the Agents and other programs, he has control over all the machines. It wasn't Neo who stopped the Sentinels, it was Smith. That's as much as he told me, but I thought it was very interesting.


Interesting, but (SIGNIFICANT SPOILER WARNING for Revolutions):

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Judging from the trailers and tv spots and things, it looks like Neo really does have that ability to stop sentinels...I think you can particularly see it in the final theatrical trailer. When he and Trinity are in the ship, he's holding up his hand and the sentinels that are attacking them just stop and start shooting those electrical thingies (my technical term) like they did at the end of Reloaded.


Yeah, if you don't like massive Revolutions spoilers, then just keep moving, nothing to see here...

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:56 am
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