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imbri
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

RungeKutta wrote:
not having fist-fights at ARGFest


aww man, why do we have to get rid of the ARGFest Fist Fights?

This blows!

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:34 am
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

I like RungeKutta's post, so much so that I asked him in chat if I could move it to be directly under the original post in this thread. Then, what we have is a two-post thread that looks like this:

Steve: Be careful about what you say!
Runge: I was wrong! I'm sorry! Here are some new rules we should live by!

Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:43 am
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natas
PHP Ninja


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 3177
Location: Northwest Indiana

I have made a couple of silly posts in this thread because that's what I do, but I seriously wonder what the problem is. When I first joined unfiction, I had a "misunderstanding" with one of the mods. I was explained of the etiquette and respect that is showed in the community and quickly adapted my way of thinking because of my interest in the genre.

I have been here almost exactly one year now, and to quote Jamesi. "I think of this as my backyard" also. For the 2 weeks I'm home, I practically live here. So it isn't very hard to apply these same ideals of respect and community to #unfiction chat. If I were to post something that members thought of inappropriate, I would probably just say "sorry" and move on.

I'm not sure exactly what was the topic of discussion that has everyone up in arms, but why not just stop it? Apparently, nobody wants to hear it.

pe@ce

ETA: I do have a life, whoever changed my profile status.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:45 am
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

natas wrote:
ETA: I do have a life, whoever changed my profile status.


That's a term of endearment here for those that go above 2000 posts. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:15 am
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mapmaker
Unfettered

Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Providence, RI, USA


Entirely unhelpful

I think this discussion is fun and really good. Why don't you all just shake on it, you associates of mine? Oh, and krystyn, take those cookies and shove them in an envelope please and send them to me!!!






PS: I love you all
PPS: TINC
PPPS: Space will never change the CSS, right?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:01 am
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chixor1
Unfettered

Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 360
Location: Scotland

RungeKutta wrote:

How about we all just agree that mistakes were made on both sides, and from now on, we'll conduct ourselves a bit different to accommodate everyone.


Agreed!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:52 am
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

Wow boy.. I mean just wow. And I thought that *I* liked to be argumentative.

This thread has been rather fascinating in a train-wrecky kind of way (Soviet Russia, really?). I find it interesting that if you go back and read the very start of this thread, the initial pushback to the first post was by and large not questioning the need to tone down the chat, but rather was more about wanting to know specifics about the supposed "standards" (which turned out to be difficult, because the ops had to pull out the 'know it when i see it' obscenity defense). Somehow, from one's perch on all the high horses around here, this morphed into the 1st amendment and a referendum on Gitmo.

As someone who is only intermittently on #unfiction (and thus there are probably many others in a better position to comment than I), I like to express some thanks for the role played by the ops, who in my experience are almost entirely hands-off but I have always assumed are constantly doing important oppy things. I do appreciate having an occasional reminder about the public-audience and communal nature of arenas like the chatroom. I don't think the request to tone the chat down is arbitrary or punitive or 'tearing apart the fabric of this community.' Indeed, I think that there is a lot of support for wanting to keep #uf relatively PG-13 simply because that seems like a commonsensical policy for an arena in which a diverse (and potentially anonymous) set of people come together. Perhaps the problem was that this (unspoken) policy hasn't been mentioned enough! Although who wants the hall monitor to blare out a warning message every 10 minutes? Exactly!

So, I realize that I didn't have to weigh in here, but it seemed like some support from individuals other than the ops vs. angry mob might be useful.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:02 am
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redct
Entrenched


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1233

jamesi wrote:
Firing a quick reply to redct: perhaps the most strange (I wanted to say funniest, but surely no one is laughing at this point) aspect of this entire clusterfrak of a thread is that, while we argue about the philosophy of what a community is and how we are drifting towards a regime reminiscent of Soviet Russia, the chat room is mostly quiet, and when it hasn't been, topics have included a flashing red light (Project Abraham related) and our pending attack on Slashdot (huh? Smile). I find this both frustrating Mad and amusing Very Happy.


Attack on Slashdot? Really? I never knew...
mapmaker wrote:
I think this discussion is fun and really good. Why don't you all just shake on it, you associates of mine? Oh, and krystyn, take those cookies and shove them in an envelope please and send them to me!!!

Nice use of formatting. Very Happy

RungeKutta wrote:

How about we all just agree that mistakes were made on both sides, and from now on, we'll conduct ourselves a bit different to accommodate everyone. Since the UF Java IRC applet points to #uf, the channel needs to stay more clean - no doubt about that.

The channel's admins and ops have the ultimate say in the channel, minus major problems and disruptions that threaten the usability of everyone on the IRC server. With that being said, how about a (private) warning to the offending user(s) that you (an admin or op) feel the user's language is inappropriate. If said user fails to heed the warning, they're kicked. If the user again ignores the warning, the user is banned for some time appropriate time period.

If we want to get all draconian I'm sure exact rules could be established, but in the vested interest of staying friends and not having fist-fights at ARGFest, people can just use their own judgment. Of course if you can't, that's when the warning/kick/ban comes into play.

I believe if we all follow this basic set of guidelines and forget about the swelling drama that's unfolding, we can remain a fun place to waste your life away for free (which sure beats paying a bartender).

Even though I've been a bit of a proponent of the drama, I do think it has to end somewhere, and the whole thing has to be resolved somewhere.

I think we're getting pretty close to solving this, especially with Runge's post.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:19 am
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redct
Entrenched


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1233

danteIL wrote:
. I don't think the request to tone the chat down is arbitrary or punitive or 'tearing apart the fabric of this community.'


What I meant in my earlier post is that the request to tone the chat down isn't tearing apart the community, but the unforeseen consequences are starting to.
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someone in IRC: see, sometimes instead of a man and woman loving each other, men and men love each other. this usually happens in prison, but sometimes in real life


PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:21 am
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

danteIL wrote:
This thread has been rather fascinating in a train-wrecky kind of way (Soviet Russia, really?). I find it interesting that if you go back and read the very start of this thread, the initial pushback to the first post was by and large not questioning the need to tone down the chat, but rather was more about wanting to know specifics about the supposed "standards" (which turned out to be difficult, because the ops had to pull out the 'know it when i see it' obscenity defense). Somehow, from one's perch on all the high horses around here, this morphed into the 1st amendment and a referendum on Gitmo.

Speaking solely for myself here, I do have specific examples of some of the explicit chats in my chat log, but I feel that if I post them, that will change the tenor of this thread from a generalized warning to all to a condemnation of a specific few. I don't think anyone wanted to publicly single out anyone in particular; rather, Steve probably just wanted to post a gentle reminder for everyone who participates in #uf and either might not know about the guidelines or might have forgotten about them.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:56 pm
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natas
PHP Ninja


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 3177
Location: Northwest Indiana

Do you have any good yo' mama jokes archived in your chat log?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:02 pm
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Vecheeso
Unfettered


Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 337
Location: Titusville, FL

@Jamesi: On October 5th, (page 2 of this thread) this was said
Quote:
"Maybe there _should_ be an "anything goes" channel where conversations can redirect."
by Addlepated, so, yes, infact, it was suggested that a separate channel be created early on.

On October 17th, those people who wanted such a channel, were granted their wish to keep the community clean and better and that channel was made. Assuming that that would be the end of this whole thing, I stopped following this thread since then, and suddenly, there is EVEN MORE posts that followed, and this thing quickly devolved from impersonal, civil discussion, and general concern by a few community members, to people getting their feelings hurt from personal attacks. TWO DAYS! And as far as what RungeKutta said, i -already- said practically the same thing as that 2 days ago! I said that there was a separate channel created, as was asked by Addlepated early on in this thread and then later mentioned by ScarpeGrosse in chat, and I recommended the only 'change' to UF be that the moderators begin -privately- telling people to stop when they are being inappropriate, as well as being a tad more specific about the 'no rules' idea.

This is absolutely beyond me why so many people got up in arms and upset, and there was two pages more of thread after the resolution came about! But apparently it took two pages of people getting mad at each other and hints towards Communism and defunct government (which is NOT where things should have gone and was indeed not conducive to productive talks), until finally, RungeKutta, essentially, reiterated EXACTLY what I said! Did he just happen to shorten thing? Have more tact and finess than my post?

My only guess is that people felt the need to keep arguing and bitching at each other, because nothing says "lets shake hands and be friends, all is well" like making personal attacks against someone and inflating your ego. Seriously guys, we're better than this. The first 4 pages were civil, and the last two were disgraceful and shameful, and certainly dont look to newcomers like we can debate issues in a civil fashion.

Maybe my mistake was not saying that things were done improperly on both sides, or that there was no hard feelings in my resolution. I figured it was implied, but apparently everyone took it as us saying "fine! i'll take my ball and go elsewhere" and the fact that that is how it was percieved showed that this conversation devolved from impersonal, and ADULT discussion, to ego versus ego.

Here it is people, *shakes Jamesi, ScarpeGrosse, xnbomb, vpisteve, thebruce, Addlepated's hands* thank you for allowing us to speak up about our issues, and thank you for bringing your concerns to the people. If you were personally upset, or offended, or felt personally attacked by anything I have said, be it in #unfiction or on this thread, it is my deepest and most sincere apologies, and that is not what my intention while i was in #unfiction or posting on this thread.

We're all better than a lot of our posts in this thread make us out to be.

Remember, when you fight fire with fire, everything turns to ash.

And as I said before, thank you all for allowing this thread to be made, and allowing #unfiction to become a better place for everyone in it.

*EDITED* to handshake Addlepated too Razz
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:21 pm
Last edited by Vecheeso on Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

I didn't get a handshake? What are you, a Communist? Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:21 pm
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natas
PHP Ninja


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 3177
Location: Northwest Indiana

@ Vecheeso

You could have shortened your post to say:

"I said it before RungeKutta did... nah nah nah"

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:54 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

This is what I miss from being away! The mad discussions and opinions, cookies, hurt feelings , long thought out and well-constructed replies, sidetracking, resolution, continued discussion... oh man, I heart you guys. I just had to post in this thread because it is so awesome to read. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:46 pm
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