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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: This Is My Milwaukee
[INFO] "Milwaukee: A Reasonable Haven" Informational Booklet
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regentswift
Boot


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Okay, I think I might have something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_directed_graph

"Simple and direct"

What if the grid on 27 is actually a map of nodes?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:33 pm
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FSURobbie
Guest


regentswift wrote:
Okay, I think I might have something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_directed_graph

"Simple and direct"

What if the grid on 27 is actually a map of nodes?


I think you might be on to something...

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:34 pm
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DarkProject
Veteran


Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 98

regentswift wrote:
Okay, I think I might have something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_directed_graph

"Simple and direct"

What if the grid on 27 is actually a map of nodes?


Wikipedia is blocked for me at work. Can someone help me out with a friendly copy-paste of the relevant section?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:48 pm
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dposse
Entrenched


Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 954
Location: CT

DarkProject wrote:
regentswift wrote:
Okay, I think I might have something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_directed_graph

"Simple and direct"

What if the grid on 27 is actually a map of nodes?


Wikipedia is blocked for me at work. Can someone help me out with a friendly copy-paste of the relevant section?


http://www.practiceboard.com/?10199814

does that help? sorry it's so...bunched together.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:53 pm
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regentswift
Boot


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Another possible meaning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_(graph_theory)

Quote:
A closed directed (simple) path, with no repeated vertices other than the starting and ending vertices. (This usage is common in graph theory.) This may also be called a simple (directed) cycle.


Either way, it looks like we may be dealing with a graph.

EDIT: I seem to recall this being referred to as a 'Long Walk' in one of my math classes. Let me see if I can dig up my notes.
EDIT 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_graph_theory#Walks

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:07 pm
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FSURobbie
Guest


regentswift wrote:
Another possible meaning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_(graph_theory)

Quote:
A closed directed (simple) path, with no repeated vertices other than the starting and ending vertices. (This usage is common in graph theory.) This may also be called a simple (directed) cycle.


Either way, it looks like we may be dealing with a graph.

EDIT: I seem to recall this being referred to as a 'Long Walk' in one of my math classes. Let me see if I can dig up my notes.
EDIT 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_graph_theory#Walks


Dude, you are good... Brownie Worshippy Brownie

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:13 pm
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DarkProject
Veteran


Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 98

dposse wrote:
DarkProject wrote:
regentswift wrote:
Okay, I think I might have something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_directed_graph

"Simple and direct"

What if the grid on 27 is actually a map of nodes?


Wikipedia is blocked for me at work. Can someone help me out with a friendly copy-paste of the relevant section?


http://www.practiceboard.com/?10199814

does that help? sorry it's so...bunched together.


Amazing. Thank you so much.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:17 pm
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Grue
Boot

Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 23

In the table on page 27 every digit is present, except for... 7. Could it be that "dash" is 7?

2regenswift: what you're referring to as "long walk" is called Hamiltonian cycle. A vanilla cycle doesn't have to go through every vertex of a graph.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:22 pm
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dposse
Entrenched


Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 954
Location: CT

DarkProject wrote:
dposse wrote:
DarkProject wrote:
regentswift wrote:
Okay, I think I might have something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_directed_graph

"Simple and direct"

What if the grid on 27 is actually a map of nodes?


Wikipedia is blocked for me at work. Can someone help me out with a friendly copy-paste of the relevant section?


http://www.practiceboard.com/?10199814

does that help? sorry it's so...bunched together.


Amazing. Thank you so much.


You're welcome. Smile

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:29 pm
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scotty2012
Boot

Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 16

pg 27 "Graph"

I think we just need to find the path to connect all the nodes in the correct way and we'll get something, I'm not sure what... but at least it's a direction to move in.

Here's a good link to a description of a Simple...directed graph with embedded links to help explain the differences in simple and multi directed graphs:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SimpleDirectedGraph.html

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:30 pm
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EnsO
Decorated


Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 205

coupla things that have been clawing at me here.

    the grid on page 26 has nothing to do with the X and Y axes and their seeming relation to physics imho. i have been furiously looking at physics sites recently (though i am no physics expert, the basics and variables are identified in the chart.) the thing is, i suddenly realized that in order for the axes to be pertinent, the resulting values along each axis would have to show some uniformity in relation to the intersecting coordinates. they do not, and in fact, some of the given values have no relation to physics as we know it what so ever.

    the grid on page 26 has a number of components imho. while the outer axes may relate to physics and particle/ energy rates, the inner portion does not. in fact, i think it may be possible to remove the inner 5x5 grid and look at it completely separate from the X and Y axes. once removed, it may be possible for a physics expert to fill in the corresponding graph of the X and Y axes, (that is if these two quantifiers even have a legitimate relationship to one another), though i don't know if this information would be of much use.

    the separated 5X5 grid might then be a little easier to deal with and may form a map as someone mentioned. the top line has already been identified as the numbers for teens to travel in groups for greater safety. 2010 in one box appears to signify a year or date. M for M-rotor, etc. anyway, just a thought there. needs more work to be sure.

    the grid on page 27 looks to be more solvable as is. i wonder if the words "simple" or "direct" aree thee keys to the code here? i have been looking around at different types of ciphers and codes and wonder if this one is a combination of more than one type. the use of the superscript numbers and letters is quite perplexing. added to that is the problem of the "I"s in places otherwise held only by numbers in the grid.

    other questions about this grid include the boxes with "0"s as the base unit (or are those "O's, as in zero or the letter O). if we take them as zeros, then i wonder if those boxes can be eliminated from any message altogether, as no equation allows multiplication by zero?

    if we call them letter Os, perhaps the grid can be divided into two groups, one with numbers as the base unit, the other with letters. this might make for two anagrams instead of one huge one.


anyway, just some things that were bothering me since last night. worked on the grids for quite some time and finally had to give up about 3am...

hopefully someone has better luck soon as we are stuck in the muck here, baby!

peace...

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:37 pm
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regentswift
Boot


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Grue wrote:
In the table on page 27 every digit is present, except for... 7. Could it be that "dash" is 7?

2regenswift: what you're referring to as "long walk" is called Hamiltonian cycle. A vanilla cycle doesn't have to go through every vertex of a graph.


We're likely either looking for a Eulerian Circuit or a Hamiltonian one.

It's my guess that a walked circuit through this network will produce a message.

At first I thought that the grid we have might be an adjacency matrix ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjacency_matrix ). In fact, if you reflect the R's across the diagonal, they always pair with the number 2. This doesn't work with any other number though.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:42 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

Ok so here are some points we know about the number grids:

* the top right and bottom right grids are angled perfectly to overlay, but they are different sizes, excepting that the rows are each the same height
* the first row of the left grid seem to point towards number sets (an equation whose value is determined by the column)
* the left grid's y axis denotes 'meters of water equivalent', related to energy of something (radiation?) in Giga-electron-volts on the x axis - unsure whether this is significant
* QUATI appears in the left grid in a "Boggle" fashion, the missing letters from 'Quartino' (leaving RNO); they are used in 'Tequila' (leaving EL); the letters are also hinted in other areas
* Each of the three grids, disregarding axes, contains 5 full rows and 5 full columns (25 cells)
* the upper right grid contains an additional row of 5 spaces with bold borders - this appears to be this 'puzzle' we're aiming to solve aimlessly
* each cell in the upper right grid contains a large number, with a superscript letter and number (1 is effectively blank) denoting that letter's count in the entire table (eg, there is an R, R2, R3, and R4)

I very much believe that the simple directed graph is related to this... I've been doing a lot of searching around for similar grids and matrices, possibly if it's been used for ciphers before.
Suffice to say, the superscript contens in the upper right grid are all unique. So I think the superscript numbers are there to hint at the right direction (that is, walking a path, we won't hit an R3 before an R1).
The large numbers I don't get yet...

"simple" - every node is used once
"direct" - there must be an indication of where to go.
We need a starting point and how the connections are made.


List of cells by primary number:
Code:
0. W2 U  Y2 F  O2 T 
1. O  Y 
2. H  K  U2 E  E3
3. E2
4. R  N 
5. R3 S  M 
6. R4 A  W
7. -
8. R2
9. L  I 


List of cells alphabetically (superscript #, letter, cell #):
Code:
 A6
 E2
2E3
3E2
 F0
 G-
 H2
 I9
2I-
 K2
 L9
 M5
 N4
2N-
3O-
 O1
2O0
 R4
2R8
3R5
4R6
 S5
 T0
2T-
 U0
2U2
 W6
2W0
 Y1
2Y0


Some links - shortest path algorithms, summing columns?, more directed graphs

If we're going for a long walk, it's possible that the I and L could have 9 connections... Otherwise, it may be that the numbers form a string as a next 'phase' in the puzzle...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:50 pm
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horkheimer
Boot

Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Milwaukee

EnsO wrote:
2010 in one box appears to signify a year or date.


more 2010...



PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:56 pm
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nwfisk
Boot

Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 24

I think maybe the "BONUS?" deserves a second look.

I admittedly know little about symbols/notations in graph theory, but, if we assume that "Joe" is signaling "B" in semaphore in the "VERIFY" shot:



And we attempt to "verify" that the "B"s are actually the letter B in the "BONUS?" shot:



We are left with something that might be:
(symbol) ONU (symbol2)

There are no "B"s in either graph, but we do have O, N, and U (and plenty of NOs).

Is there anything that might LOOK like a "B" in graph theory notation?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:07 pm
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