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Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: This Is My Milwaukee

[INFO] "Milwaukee: A Reasonable Haven" Informational Booklet

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FeloniousDrunk
Boot

Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 37

Beeswax wrote:

I'd say that table is too accurate to be a coincidence.

The same units on each axis - and those GeV numbers are pretty random.

What puzzles me though is that when I click on the link it wants me to pay to read the article. Any chance you could copy it here?

Simulations of muon-induced neutron flux at large depths underground

Oh, sorry -- I'm at a university library and I guess we have some kind of special access to that journal. Hopefully this counts as fair use:

There's a much bigger article, but it's pretty heavy.

edit: found another link. (PDF) or Google HTML-ized (no images)

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:43 pm
Last edited by FeloniousDrunk on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

synspark
Veteran

Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 92
Location: N NJ

Re: Boggle

FeloniousDrunk wrote:

EnsO wrote:

see this is my problem with the X and Y axes. to my way of thinking, you have just further proven the physics lesson dead in the water. if, as you say, 1000 mwe is equivalent to 150 E[mu](GeV) then there is no need for a table whatsoever, the axes would be parallel. further, the table does not state that 1000 mwe = 150 E[mu](GeV), it states that it relates to a factor of 3. further, to follow your line of reasoning, the diagonal for the graph would be a straight forward mathematical series. how do factors such as "NO" and "M" suddenly appear in the equation?

btw, i think only the letters QUAT appear in the table. the "I" is a numeral "1" imho.

i maintain that this grid has nothing to do with physics what so ever. the physics thing is purely misdirection as i see it.

peace...

Well, all I'm saying is that I found a table out there that I didn't make up, that has the exact same numbers we want, in the order we want, with the same units we want. It also turns out that it establishes a relationship between metres of water equivalent and muon energy. Yes, it's problematic that one-dimensional relationship seems to have been split into an x- and a y-axis on Page 26.

My line of reasoning doesn't actually require that the diagonal be a mathematical sequence of any sort, it just leads me to think that the diagonal is probably special.

As for I vs 1, it's an I. Just compare it to the 1's in 2010 and 124. There's no font size change, it's just the way 1 is rendered in that font. Unless you want it to be a giant "1", then I can't help you.

synspark wrote:

I'm going to have to agree with EnsO here... I didn't bother reading this post earlier, because I'd been through this already. But, it's not right.

m.w.e. is a measurement of depth. GeV is a measurement of energy. They don't become equivalent, ever. All this table would tell you, if it were accurate (and we're not even sure that it is...) is that the energy of a particular particle is x amount at y depth.

But... the numbers are the same... must... MEAN something...

I will gladly concede to you that it's physics related, if you can show me some kind of application for it. Let's say that there's an device or "thing", that can accelerate a muon to those energy levels... We're talking particle accelerator caliber energy at that point... Then, at depths in some material, equivalent to thousands of feet of water, these muons lose (or gain!?) random amounts of energy. It doesn't make sense. AND, if you're going to pay attention to SOME of the table's numbers, you have to pay attention to them all.

Think about it this way. You shoot a bullet at a brick wall. Somehow, the bullet's kinetic energy is higher at random points further into the wall, or experiences randomly HUGE energy losses, where the laws of physics tell us that this shouldn't be the case?

A muon is a muon, even in TIMM world.

And past that, if these numbers mean something...then what do they help you solve, and how?

edit: also. This is not a one-dimensional situation. m.w.e. and energy are not tied to one another naturally. they'd be constant when considering a known source that accelerates muons to a particular energy level...but not here, where we've got several energy levels to deal with.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:49 pm

SubGothius
Boot

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 40

Steganography and the Odd Man Out

EnsO wrote:

i maintain that this grid has nothing to do with physics what so ever. the physics thing is purely misdirection as i see it.

Hm, misdirection... I'd mentioned mistakes ("careless oversight leading to catastrophe") as possibly revealing more than the overt message.

Someone else had mentioned Steganography -- hiding information "in plain view", buried within a superficial content and context that seems to be "about" something else entirely, and where only someone armed with the knowledge that there even is any other message to find and the key how to extract it would be able to get past the irrelevant surface-level message and find the buried gem of covert info. There's a stegosaur in the "man living with dinosaurs" drawing, IMHO hinting at steganography.

We have propaganda from MTC, whom we can assume is part of or at least controlled by Blackstar, a tyrannical (Terry Nanny) corporate government (fascism = a gov't run by and for corporations). We can perhaps assume nothing we are given at face-value is very relevant to the hidden info we are really trying to find, whether carelessly inserted as a slip-up or deliberately and covertly buried in unrelated information.

We have mentioned "odd man out" patterns in number sequences, and Mars Madison has mentioned feeling like that as well. We are seeking something that doesn't fit the pattern of the overt information we are being given. Look for what seems out of place, whatever doesn't seem to fit its contextual pattern. Perhaps most of what we are given is pure BS or surface noise designed to bury the real message in irrelevant info.

EnsO had a point earlier about throwing away anything we recognize or can correlate to anything else, to see what's left. Applying that to p.26, he was left with 5 single-digit numbers (1,3,3,7,7), which would fit handily into the spaces on p.27. Perhaps that's all that matters and the upper rows on p.27 are also sheer BS and misdirection, noise to hide the signal? "This way into the doleful city" could refer to the East Gate into Milwaukee from Grand Rapids...?

FeloniousDrunk wrote:

What it means is that the source you found is where some irrelevant data was pilfered as noise to mask the signal we're trying to extract. Someone wanted to provide us with info in plain view, yet without making it obvious that info was there, so they grabbed a whole bunch of junk data from all over to use as padding around the real info. The fact that your source shows equivalent scales that are presented as coordinate scales on p.26 indicates that the face-value presentation on p.26 can't possibly mean anything in itself. We recognize where that data came from, and can thus throw it away as junk.

BTW, a useful semantic distinction: "information" is data that was previously unknown or unpredicted; if it comes as news to us, or doesn't fit any known or established pattern, then it's truly information. We are looking for significant info buried in a sea of meaningless, irrelevant data.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:26 pm

Oshi
Boot

Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 29

Re: Steganography and the Odd Man Out

SubGothius wrote:

BTW, a semantic distinction: "information" is data that was previously unknown or unpredicted; if it comes as news to us, or doesn't fit any established pattern, then it's true Info. We are looking for significant info buried in a sea of meaningless, irrelevant data.

I think this is the direction we should be taking as well. It's simple and direct, and gives us the kind of information we need as long as we "look closer". All of the supposed clues (what we are assuming as clues) add up to that. What we can do with the information I don't know, I'm not particularly good at solving puzzles that involve numbers but it's obvious a lot of you are.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:16 pm

Tresbien
Unfictologist

Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 1436

Hate to interrupt the flow of this conversation as it's totally fascinating (I'm in awe of you guys!), but I did want to mention some things about Chuck's twitter account. While there's always the chance that it's independent of this ARG, it was created about 24 hours before I found it. There was no one else following him, and he hasn't added any of us since. He's twittering about life in the alternate reality Milwaukee, so I think from all that it's clear that it's in game.

SubGothius, I agree that the stegosaurus is strongly suggestive of something hidden. It's worth pursuing imho.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:19 pm

EnsO
Decorated

Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 205

Re: Boggle

synspark wrote:

EnsO wrote:

FeloniousDrunk wrote:

EnsO wrote:

me wrote:

I was more excited about that physics journal showing that 1000 mwe = 150 GeV etc. It would suggest that the only important part of p.26 is the diagonal (3, 84, A, NO, M).

interesting take. how do you come to this conclusion?

Well, from the table in that paper, we have:

Code:

X (km w.e.) : E[mu] (GeV)
1.0 : 150
2.0 : 226
3.0 : 273
4.0 : 304
5.0 : 324

Since 1 km w.e. = 1000 m.w.e. we get the left axis labels of the table, and the numbers for E _mu go across the top. Since we know (if we can trust the guy who wrote the paper) that the m.w.e.s are equivalent to the E _mu s, then only the diagonal of the table makes sense. Note that I am no particle physicist, maybe there's one lurking around somewhere... as for "3 84 A NO M", I don't know. I do know that "QUATI" suggested the word "Equation" to me though.[/code]

right. if it is indeed accurate. which it is not by mathematical rule. i know you spent a ton of time on this , Syno. sorry to burst the bubble. i have also spent much time on wrong leads thus far. don't feel alone. after all the scientific process itself is a matter of disproving theses, correct?

peace...

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:51 pm

landtuna
Boot

Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 25

Things that didn't work

Just to get it out there, here's an approach I thought was promising that didn't work out that well. Maybe some variation would work better.

I took the numbers on the page 27 grid as page numbers, and I wrote down the first (or second or third, depending on the letter's subscript) word on the page that started with the letter in the box.

I also thought they might index into words spoken in the video or something, but I didn't try anything else.

I was then inclined to think that a Boggle path was more likely, since for every letter with a subscript, there are copies of that letter with all of the preceding subscripts. (This would only happen accidentally when using the page number index theory above.)

So I tried was a Python program I wrote to exhaustively do Boggle on the letters of the grid, with the stipulation that letters could only be visited once, and that a letter with a subscript couldn't be visited until the earlier subscripted instances of that letter were first visited. This really didn't get me much of anywhere, so I'm losing faith in the Boggle / anagram idea. The most interesting starts began with "hero", but they didn't get very far.

If anyone's interested in the script, I can post or PM it.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:10 pm

landtuna
Boot

Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 25

Oh - one more thing. I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but the lower left box on the Page 27 chart is I2, and the front cover semaphore for Start is I2.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:13 pm

EnsO
Decorated

Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 205

Re: Boggle

synspark wrote:

FeloniousDrunk wrote:

EnsO wrote:

synspark wrote:

But... the numbers are the same... must... MEAN something...

no, the X and Y axes mean nothing. how is this not apparent? as i said earlier, take the X and Y axes off into playland if you wish, but they have absolutely NO logical/ mathematical relation to the values found in the grid.

that much is fact. mathematics bear this out, and i'm no mathematician my friends.

may just be time to admit we're stumped? the game can not go on under these parameters.

(don't you like the fact that the PMs read this forum and have succeeded in setting us on our collective asses?) we have a bunch of intelligent people working on this. must be at least a bit rewarding, (for them) don't you think?

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:18 pm

MrCthulhu2U
Boot

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 35

Re: Things that didn't work

landtuna wrote:

So I tried was a Python program I wrote to exhaustively do Boggle on the letters of the grid, with the stipulation that letters could only be visited once, and that a letter with a subscript couldn't be visited until the earlier subscripted instances of that letter were first visited. This really didn't get me much of anywhere, so I'm losing faith in the Boggle / anagram idea. The most interesting starts began with "hero", but they didn't get very far.

If anyone's interested in the script, I can post or PM it.

Thanks for doing that! Points for effort...I've been looking at it manually for a bit now and couldn't come up with much that's interesting.

I did try overlaying the Long Walk graph on the Simple and Direct grid and about the only thing I get out of it is 'Remit'. Doesn't seem like a hill of beans though.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:27 pm

SubGothius
Boot

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 40

Mike Russo
Reliable leak source?

If the Stegosaurus is a clue that Steganography is being used, and Mike Russo's handwritten note on that page insisted that illustration should stay in the book, we might reasonably infer that Russo is (was?) in on the covert information-leak effort.

Also re: Stegosaurus, note it's the only dino on the compass illustration that doesn't have a needle/arrow pointing to it or even near it. "Look at the hand itself, not where it points to."

Finally, the Wikipedia page for Steganography linked to a specialized IE-based browser called Camera/Shy, which can reveal steg. info hidden in the .GIF images displayed on a given Web page. The thing is, Camera/Shy apparently needs us to specify a password to identify and decode .GIFs with embedded steg. info therein. Interestingly, the wiki link for Camera/Shy actually led to the wiki page for the Hacktivismo project which created it, and what does the Hacktivismo logo on that page look like, hm? Shocked

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:42 pm

synspark
Veteran

Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 92
Location: N NJ

Re: Boggle

EnsO wrote:

LoL. I concur. I'm just afraid of having to continually make the point about this particular table again and again. I know it's going to happen lol.

It makes me yell.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:47 pm

kyuurijanaidesu
Guest

Re: Mike Russo
Reliable leak source?

SubGothius wrote:

Possibly unrelated but given the way of things with this particular ARG I doubt it: Mars mentioned being "shy" but then said "maybe not shy, but kind of introverted." Possibly a reference to this Camera/Shy thing being important?

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:35 pm

EnsO
Decorated

Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 205

Re: Mike Russo
Reliable leak source?

so tired. having a corned beef sandwich and some fries...

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:03 am

teufelsdrochk
Veteran

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 71

FeloniousDrunk wrote:

Beeswax wrote:

Oh, sorry -- I'm at a university library and I guess we have some kind of special access to that journal. Hopefully this counts as fair use:

There's a much bigger article, but it's pretty heavy.

edit: found another link. (PDF) or Google HTML-ized (no images)

Mwe (meters of water equivalent) and GeV_mu (muon energy in giga electron volts) would work for x and y if the abscissa were, say, how deep your detector was buried, and the mantissa were the energy of observed muons. The quoted table is saying that you observe x number of cosmic ray muons at y energy for a range of different detectors (edit actually E_mu is the mean muon number at that energy, a kind of shorthand for the spectrum).

How did you find this again? My google search doesn't turn it up.

LVD is the large volume detector
http://www.nu.to.infn.it/exp/all/lvd/
which looks to be an older neutrino detector. Your correlation may be right, if you can find the booklet's table in one of the LVD's old publications.

<edit>
relevant citation is
M. Aglietta et al. (LVD Collaboration). Phys. Rev. D, 58 (1998) 092005.
This looks to be a big famous paper on muon detection. There's no 'gosh' moment from the arxiv but sometime formatting changes for journals. I'm not at uni at the moment, but feel free to look.

your muon energies
150 226 273 304
etc, are "mean muon energy for global muon flux in standard rock for a flat surface with LVD parameterisation of the muon spectrum" And, yeah, odds of getting this sequence right, from the right field of particle physics, by chance are zero.

So either it's important or the PM just looked up a fancy-looking chart to make a puzzle. I'm just flabbergasted that the internets could find the original research!

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:24 am
Last edited by teufelsdrochk on Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:07 am; edited 6 times in total

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