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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Ephemeral » ARG: 39 Clues
[39C] Discrepancies/Mistakes
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BEDOMII
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katsmom wrote:
But Madame is a term of respect from a subordinate to a superior. It may be nothing more than that. My TA called me madam until I explained the other meaning of the word. Now I'm Miss Rox (even though it should be Mrs.)


We have been having slot of trouble in the area of grace cahill. I think that she must be a top madrigal. She seems to have enimies in every branch, seems to know almost all the clues ( if not all of them) and is called Madame cahill by mcintyre. It kind of goes along the line of she is a top madrigal
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I have copys of cards: 23,26,40,45,47,48(x2),50,51,54,55,56,57,64,66,68,70(x3),71(x4),72(2),73(x4).
For card pack1. if I can find them all

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:19 am
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Ekatprof
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BEDOMII wrote:
katsmom wrote:
But Madame is a term of respect from a subordinate to a superior. It may be nothing more than that. My TA called me madam until I explained the other meaning of the word. Now I'm Miss Rox (even though it should be Mrs.)


We have been having slot of trouble in the area of grace cahill. I think that she must be a top madrigal. She seems to have enimies in every branch, seems to know almost all the clues ( if not all of them) and is called Madame cahill by mcintyre. It kind of goes along the line of she is a top madrigal


If she's a top madrigal leader, why dont she call off her madrigal friends off the contestants, especially Amy and Dan? Make A&D's life a whole lot easier.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:16 am
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Hunter6
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Ekatprof wrote:
BEDOMII wrote:
katsmom wrote:
But Madame is a term of respect from a subordinate to a superior. It may be nothing more than that. My TA called me madam until I explained the other meaning of the word. Now I'm Miss Rox (even though it should be Mrs.)


We have been having slot of trouble in the area of grace cahill. I think that she must be a top madrigal. She seems to have enimies in every branch, seems to know almost all the clues ( if not all of them) and is called Madame cahill by mcintyre. It kind of goes along the line of she is a top madrigal


If she's a top madrigal leader, why dont she call off her madrigal friends off the contestants, especially Amy and Dan? Make A&D's life a whole lot easier.

Maybe she was going to, then someone killed her or something.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:46 pm
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Wind Lane
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Ekatprof wrote:
BEDOMII wrote:
katsmom wrote:
But Madame is a term of respect from a subordinate to a superior. It may be nothing more than that. My TA called me madam until I explained the other meaning of the word. Now I'm Miss Rox (even though it should be Mrs.)


We have been having slot of trouble in the area of grace cahill. I think that she must be a top madrigal. She seems to have enimies in every branch, seems to know almost all the clues ( if not all of them) and is called Madame cahill by mcintyre. It kind of goes along the line of she is a top madrigal


If she's a top madrigal leader, why dont she call off her madrigal friends off the contestants, especially Amy and Dan? Make A&D's life a whole lot easier.


But the Madrigals haven't done anything to Amy and Dan. It's been the other teams in the hunt. The most that anyone outside the hunt's done to them is track and follow them.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:46 pm
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Hunter6
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 		This should actually go into the theory thread, not here.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:04 pm
Last edited by Hunter6 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Maggie
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 		Re: 1908 explosion in Siberia
Hunter6 wrote:
Maggie wrote:
I didn't know if this should be put in Theories or Mistakes, you choose!

In Maze of Bones Chapter 10, page 113

Maze of Bones wrote:
Ian said. "And I've read my family history, Alistair. The last time our branches fought, it didn't go very well for you lot, did it?"
...
"The 1908 explosion in Siberia," he said to Ian. "Yes, that was impressive. But we have more at stake this time."



EDIT:

Great 1908 Explosion wrote:
3-D Supercomputer Solves Mystery of the Great 1908 Siberian Explosion

The energy of the blast was estimated to be between 10 and 20 megatons of TNT — 1,000 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, Japan. The explosion felled an estimated 80 million trees over 2,150 square kilometers, and measured 5.0 on the Richter scale.

"The asteroid that caused the extensive damage was much smaller than we had thought," says Sandia principal investigator Mark Boslough of the impact that occurred June 30, 1908. "That such a small object can do this kind of destruction suggests that smaller asteroids are something to consider. Their smaller size indicates such collisions are not as improbable as we had believed."

...

The new 3-D simulation — which more closely matches the widely known facts of destruction than earlier models — shows that the center of mass of an asteroid exploding above the ground is transported downward at speeds faster than sound. It takes the form of a high-temperature fireball of expanding gas, which causes stronger blast waves and thermal radiation pulses at the surface than would be predicted by an explosion limited to the height at which the blast was initiated.

"Our understanding was oversimplified," says Boslough, "We no longer have to make the same simplifying assumptions, because present-day supercomputers allow us to do things with high resolution in 3-D. Everything gets clearer as you look at things with more refined tools."

The new interpretation also accounts for the fact that winds were amplified above ridgelines where trees tended to be blown down, and that the forest at the time of the explosion, according to foresters, was not healthy. Thus previous scientific estimates had overstated the devastation caused by the asteroid, since topographic and ecologic factors contributing to the result had not been taken into account.

"There's actually less devastation than previously thought," says Boslough, "but it was caused by a far smaller asteroid. Unfortunately, it's not a complete wash in terms of the potential hazard, because there are more smaller asteroids than larger ones."
...
Simulations show that the material of an incoming asteroid is compressed by the increasing resistance of Earth's atmosphere. As it penetrates deeper, the more and more resistant atmospheric wall causes it to explode as an airburst that precipitates the downward flow of heated gas.

Because of the additional energy transported toward the surface by the fireball, what scientists had thought to be an explosion between 10 and 20 megatons was more likely only three to five megatons. The physical size of the asteroid, says Boslough, depends upon its speed and whether it is porous or nonporous, icy or waterless, and other material characteristics. "Any strategy for defense or deflection should take into consideration this revised understanding of the mechanism of explosion," says Boslough.

Extraterrestrial fragments from the impact event have yet to be recovered. A team of Italian scientists believes that a hunk of asteroid may be in a nearby lake, buried deep within a submerged impact crater.

Although Sandia's report doesn't specify the likely size of the Tunguska asteroid, it demonstrates the threat of relatively small near-earth objects. And hard as it is to spot the massive rocks hurtling in Earth's general direction, such as the 1150-ft. asteroid Apophis, smaller asteroids are far more numerous, and even more difficult to track.

Posted by Casey Kazan.
Wikipedia isn't always correct; check a site you can trust.


What about the other site at dailygalaxy.com??
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:12 pm
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Hunter6
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 		Re: 1908 explosion in Siberia
Maggie wrote:
Hunter6 wrote:
Maggie wrote:
I didn't know if this should be put in Theories or Mistakes, you choose!

In Maze of Bones Chapter 10, page 113

Maze of Bones wrote:
Ian said. "And I've read my family history, Alistair. The last time our branches fought, it didn't go very well for you lot, did it?"
...
"The 1908 explosion in Siberia," he said to Ian. "Yes, that was impressive. But we have more at stake this time."



EDIT:

Great 1908 Explosion wrote:
3-D Supercomputer Solves Mystery of the Great 1908 Siberian Explosion

The energy of the blast was estimated to be between 10 and 20 megatons of TNT — 1,000 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, Japan. The explosion felled an estimated 80 million trees over 2,150 square kilometers, and measured 5.0 on the Richter scale.

"The asteroid that caused the extensive damage was much smaller than we had thought," says Sandia principal investigator Mark Boslough of the impact that occurred June 30, 1908. "That such a small object can do this kind of destruction suggests that smaller asteroids are something to consider. Their smaller size indicates such collisions are not as improbable as we had believed."

...

The new 3-D simulation — which more closely matches the widely known facts of destruction than earlier models — shows that the center of mass of an asteroid exploding above the ground is transported downward at speeds faster than sound. It takes the form of a high-temperature fireball of expanding gas, which causes stronger blast waves and thermal radiation pulses at the surface than would be predicted by an explosion limited to the height at which the blast was initiated.

"Our understanding was oversimplified," says Boslough, "We no longer have to make the same simplifying assumptions, because present-day supercomputers allow us to do things with high resolution in 3-D. Everything gets clearer as you look at things with more refined tools."

The new interpretation also accounts for the fact that winds were amplified above ridgelines where trees tended to be blown down, and that the forest at the time of the explosion, according to foresters, was not healthy. Thus previous scientific estimates had overstated the devastation caused by the asteroid, since topographic and ecologic factors contributing to the result had not been taken into account.

"There's actually less devastation than previously thought," says Boslough, "but it was caused by a far smaller asteroid. Unfortunately, it's not a complete wash in terms of the potential hazard, because there are more smaller asteroids than larger ones."
...
Simulations show that the material of an incoming asteroid is compressed by the increasing resistance of Earth's atmosphere. As it penetrates deeper, the more and more resistant atmospheric wall causes it to explode as an airburst that precipitates the downward flow of heated gas.

Because of the additional energy transported toward the surface by the fireball, what scientists had thought to be an explosion between 10 and 20 megatons was more likely only three to five megatons. The physical size of the asteroid, says Boslough, depends upon its speed and whether it is porous or nonporous, icy or waterless, and other material characteristics. "Any strategy for defense or deflection should take into consideration this revised understanding of the mechanism of explosion," says Boslough.

Extraterrestrial fragments from the impact event have yet to be recovered. A team of Italian scientists believes that a hunk of asteroid may be in a nearby lake, buried deep within a submerged impact crater.

Although Sandia's report doesn't specify the likely size of the Tunguska asteroid, it demonstrates the threat of relatively small near-earth objects. And hard as it is to spot the massive rocks hurtling in Earth's general direction, such as the 1150-ft. asteroid Apophis, smaller asteroids are far more numerous, and even more difficult to track.

Posted by Casey Kazan.
Wikipedia isn't always correct; check a site you can trust.


What about the other site at dailygalaxy.com??

I don't really know. Dunno Still check other sites, too, though.
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GO JANUS!!!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:04 pm
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Hunter6
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Does anyone actually have mistakes, or should we put this stuff into the theory thread?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:29 pm
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Maggie
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 		Re: 1908 explosion in Siberia
Hunter6 wrote:
I don't really know. Dunno Still check other sites, too, though.


1908 Siberia Explosion: Reconstructing an Asteroid Impact from Eyewitnesses Accounts wrote:


1908 Siberia Explosion

In Brief:

At 7:17 AM on the morning of June 30, 1908, a mysterious explosion occurred in the skies over Siberia. It was caused by the impact and breakup of a large meteorite, at an altitude roughly six kilometers in the atmosphere. Realistic pictures of the event are unavailable. However, Russian scientists collected eyewitness accounts of the event. I believe that we now know enough about large impacts to "decode" the subjective descriptions of the witnesses and create realistic views of this historic asteroid impact as seen from different distances.

What do we know about the explosion?

* About 30 km (20 mi): from the site. They were blown into the air and knocked unconscious; one man was blown into a tree and later died.
* Around 60 km: people were thrown to the ground or even knocked unconscious; windows were broken and crockery knocked off shelves.
* Around 200 km: It was called diffuse bright ball two or three times larger than the sun but not as bright; the trail was a "fiery-white band." Inconsistent colors were mentioned: white, red, flame-like, bluish-white. * 400 km: as appearing like a "pillar of fire," then replaced by "a cloud of smoke rising from the ground," or "a cloud of ash...on the horizon," or "a huge cloud of black smoke. "
* 500 km (300 mi): observers reported "deafening bangs" and a fiery cloud on the horizon.
* About 170 km (110 mi): the object was seen in the cloudless, daytime sky as a brilliant, sunlike fireball; thunderous noises were heard.

Because the object exploded up in the atmosphere, instead of hitting the ground, it left no crater. The effect on the ground was limited to devastation of a large forest area. At ground zero, tree branches were stripped, leaving trunks standing up. But at distances from roughly 3 out to 10 miles, the trees were blown over, lying with tops pointed away from the blast. No one was known to have been this close to the blast. The closest humans were probably herders camped in tents roughly 30 km from ground zero.

Some minutes after the explosion, distant observers reported a column of smoke on the horizon. The general terms indicated this was a vertical column. One observer said "Where the body disappeared behind the horizon, a pillar of dark smoke rose up." It seems unclear from the reports whether this was (a) an mushroom-like cloud from the explosion fireball rising above the landscape and pulling up smoke from the ignted forest, (b) smoke from the forest fire, or (c), from some directions, a reference to the contrail, which would be vertical when seen under the flight path. I have wondered whether the dark color could result from the smoke of the explosion containing black, sooty carbonaceous particles, in the same way that the explosion clouds on Jupiter from the impact of Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 were very dark.

What was the explosion?

In 1993 researchers Chris Chyba, Paul Thomas, and Kevin Zahnle studied the Siberian explosion and concluded it was of this type -- a stone meteorite that exploded in the atmosphere. This conclusion was supported when Russian researchers found tiny stoney particles embedded in the trees at the collision site, matching the composition of common stone meteorites. The original asteroid fragment may have been roughly 50-60 meters (50-60 yards) in diameter.

If asteroids hit Earth, why don't we see more such explosions?

Many asteroidal fragments circle the Sun; the Siberian object was merely the largest to hit the Earth in the last century or so. Had it hit a populated area, devastation would have been enormous. If there are many asteroid fragments, why don't we see more hits? We do! The problem is that they have not been understood until recently. Current studies reveal that such explosions may happen every couple of centuries; however, six out of seven happen over the ocean, and few happen over populated land. A key to the phenomenon is: the larger the impact the rarer it is. An Air Force satellite in the 1990s detected a smaller explosion over the Pacific. In 1972, a 1000-ton object skimmed tangentially through Earth's atmosphere over the Grand Tetons in Wyoming, and then skipped back out into space, like a stone skipping off water. It was photographed by tourists and detected by Air Force satellites. Had it continued on into the atmosphere, it could have caused a Hiroshima-scale explosion over Canada, somewhat smaller than the Siberian blast. Even larger objects have hit Earth, but they are more rare. For example, an iron asteroid fragment perhaps 100 m across hit Arizona about 20,000 years ago, leaving the kilometer-wide "Arizona Meteor Crater," which is open to visitors; and a 10-km asteroid hit Earth 65 million years ago, ending the reign of dinosaurs. Brick-sized interplanetary stones fall from the sky in various locations every year. Several houses and a car have been hit in recent decades. Tiny dust grains are even more common; they can be seen every night if you watch long enough; they are the bright streaks of light sometimes called "shooting stars."

Question

Tunguska-sized explosions occur on Earth about once per century, and larger explosions the size of the largest H-bombs, occur about once per millennium. Many of these explode in the atmosphere and cause devastation over tens of kilometers, but don't leave long-lasting craters. Recall that 1/6 of Earth is covered by land and assume that roughly half the land surface is populated in the last 12,000 years, since humans moved into the Americas. Using these facts comment on whether meteorite explosions of this scale might plausibly have produced legends of wrathful or capricious celestial gods who could rain fire onto the Earth, as for example in the legend of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by celestial fire. Take into account that oral traditions, such as the associations of certain star patterns with constellations such as the Great Bear (Ursa Major), can apparently be passed down for thousands of years.

For the Ekats out there:
Answer

Let's make use of what scientists call an "order of magnitude" estimate, or "back of the envelope calculation." If we imagine spectacular catastrophic explosions larger than Tunguska happening every 300 years, and having effects visible over 100 km or more from ground zero, then there would be one over land about every 1800 years, and perhaps one over a populated area every 3600 years or so. Thus it seems plausible that in 12,000 years of oral tradition and about 4000 years of written records in some cultures, there may have been one ore more explosions considerably larger than the Tunguska event. By the same logic, if Tunguska-scale events happen once per century, there could have been several just in the last several scattered around the populated land areas of the world in the last 3600 years.

Thus, it seems at least plausible that large explosions of meteoritic objects were among the celestial events (together with smaller meteorite impacts, auroras, hurricanes, storms, and floods) that gave rise to belief in capricious god-like forces acting from the skies.

Problem

[b]Recent scientific studies by meteorite researcher Christopher Chyba have estimated that the Tunguska event may have been caused by the explosion of a stony meteroid about 30 meters in diameter traveling at about 15 km/s. Compare the energy released by such an object with that of an atomic bomb sucs as those dropped on Japan in World War II.

Answer:

Here again we can make a simple "order of magnitude" calculation.

First, we have to know the energy liberated by an A-bomb. The Hiroshima bomb expended the energy of roughly ten thousand tons of TNT, or 18 "kilotons" in military parlance. One kiloton (1 KT) is about 4.2 x 1012 joules (the joule is the unit of energy in the Standard International, or "SI," set of scientific units). The Hiroshima bomb thus represented roughly 8 x 1013 joules of energy.

Now all we have to do is calculate the energy of the meteoroid. In freshman physics courses, you learn that the kinetic energy of a moving object is 1/2mV2.

The trick in using any equation like this is to be sure to use the correct units. In SI, the units are meters, kilograms, and seconds, so that mass m must be in kilograms and velocity V must be in meters/second.

Thus, right away we can say that V in the equation will be V = 15 km/s or 1.5 x 104 m/s.

To get the mass, we have to figure out the mass of a 30-meter wide rock. Rock has a density of about 3000 kg per cubic meter, so we need to calculate the volume of the rock and multiply times this density. Thus we have,

m = (4/3) PI R3 (3000 kg/m3) = (4/3) PI (15 m)3 (3000) = 4.2 x 107 kg.

Thus the total energy is,

E=1/2 (4.2 x 107 kg) (1.5 x 104 m/s)2 = 4.8 x 1015 joules.

To be safe, let's imagine that half the kinetic energy is lost to noise, slowing, and fragmentation of the meteoroid before it explodes. That still leaves about 2 x 1015 joules for the Tunguska explosion, compared to about 3 x 1013 joules for the Hiroshima A-bomb.

Thus, our estimate is that the Tunguska had an explosive energy roughly on order of 60 A-bombs, or 500 KT of TNT. It was closer in effect to a very large H-bomb.


I will follow this up with the H-Bomb to explain why it couldn't possibly be an H-Bomb.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:13 am
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Maggie
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 		Mistakes -- Geography
Maze of Bones

Page 5 wrote:
`Anyway, the whole way from Boston to the funeral in Worcester County, . . .'

Scholastics has recognized it as a mistake and plans on making changes in future books.

Page 134 wrote:
`The address glowed in red letters: 23 Rue des Jardins.
Dan pointed to a ribbon of blue surrounding the dot. "That's water. Which means that little blob she was targeting must be an island."
"The Ile St. Louis," Amy said. "It's on the Seine River right in the middle of Paris."

Rue de Jardins is located along the Seine River, but is not located on the Ile St. Louis.

Page 143 wrote:
`Amy was in favour of rushing to the Ile St.-Louis, but her stomach had other ideas. They passed a boulangerie, which must've meant bakery judging by the yummy smells, and Dan and she exchanged looks.'
. . .
"There aren't any Metro lines to Ile St. Louis," she said. "We'll have to walk."

There are no Metro lines, but it does cut off 90% of their trip by going by Metro. If they had walked it, it would have taken them over an hour.

Page 143 wrote:
`It was full dark by the time they got to the Pont Louis-Phillipe. . .To the north was a larger island, with a huge cathedral lit up yellow in the night.'

In order for them to cross the Pont Louis-Phillipe, it should read `To the south. . .' Presently, they are crossing the Pont de la Tournette.

Page 206 wrote:
"Another thing Franklin loved." Ian picked up his bundle and began fastening the black silk to the metal frame. "Kites. He pulled himself across the Charles River with one, did you know?" . . . "I sailed right down from Sacre-Coeur. And now I'm going to sail right out again."

Lightning is in the air and he doesn't get hit considering it's over .75KM distance between the two churches???
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I need the following and I am willing to take new or used cards:

11, 13, 16, 24, 31, 45, 53, 104, 105, 115, 131, and 138

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:07 pm
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glalieguy
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Location: Around the world, to look for the 22nd clue.

 		Ekat Archives!!
In the Howard Carter report, it says that Katherine Cahill hid the second Sakhet statue in the tomb of Hatshepsut. But the picture says that they found the FIRST Sakhet statue in the tomb.

Quote:
just as she hid the second at the cave tomb of Hatshepsut.


Quote:
From the tomb of Hatshepsut, where we found the first Sakhet statue.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:59 pm
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 		I don't know if this is a mistake, but some people have said Lilya's dad's name is Igor, but card #24 says his name is Vladimir. Maybe his name is Vladimir Igor Chernova.

Her mom is Vera Chernova.

Edit: Igor C. sent a letter on March 3rd to all the Ekaterina's. He mentioned being in NYC, and that if his daughter Lilya was there she would have to buy diamonds. It is signed "-- Igor".
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:10 pm
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Ekatprof
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 		 Possible Mistakes In The Sword Thief
SPOILER ALERT! DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVENT READ BOOK 3
After reading the book once a couple of days ago, I reread The Sword Thief for mistakes and I think I found two.

1. On page 24 near the bottom of the page:

Quote:
Yet all of the above was to be expected from a person of Nellie's station.


Shouldn't it be "a person of Nellie's situation"?

2. On page 22 at the middle of the page:

Quote:
Uncle Alistair reached into his pocket and pulled out two small electronic devices, which he held out to Amy and Dan with fake cheeriness, like a demented butler pretending to be Santa Claus. "These are state-of-the-art GPS devices. Attach them to your phones, as I have done to mine."


As far as I know, Amy and Dan only had ONE phone, and that was picked up from the Starlings. How did Amy and Dan get a second phone when there was no mention of it in any of the three books?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:58 am
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Wind Lane
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 		Re: Possible Mistakes In The Sword Thief
SPOILER ALERT! DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVENT READ BOOK 3
Ekatprof wrote:
After reading the book once a couple of days ago, I reread The Sword Thief for mistakes and I think I found two.

1. On page 24 near the bottom of the page:

Quote:
Yet all of the above was to be expected from a person of Nellie's station.


Shouldn't it be "a person of Nellie's situation"?


"Station" can have the meaning of job or place (as in, "put them in their place" or "know your place").
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:37 am
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BEDOMII
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 		Or she's a madeiral...
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EoE needs cards: all of card pack 2
I have copys of cards: 23,26,40,45,47,48(x2),50,51,54,55,56,57,64,66,68,70(x3),71(x4),72(2),73(x4).
For card pack1. if I can find them all

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:21 am
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