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[Trailhead] I'm Sorry
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ASimulacraOfAlex
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Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 184
Location: Duluth, MN
Ryutso wrote:

I kinda thought that meant he would take his family there and then go back to his house in Cali. Don't ask why.

And TB would've said that because Bricker's family is as valuable to us as it is to Bricker. Think about it. If they nab Bricker's family, then Bricker puts pressure on us to give up Holly for his family as well as holding that final document from us until we do.

I'm kinda on the fence about this Ron guy though. Who is? What side is he on?

The only thing I can make out for sure in the photo, is that whoever took it had on a white T-shirt and the back trunk door window (whatever you wanna call it) was down.

*sigh* It might not be stegged but I don't have any programs for that.


Yeah, I considered that, but I think Bricker is in Arizona. Thats a good point though, I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't have a valid point. :]

I think BB is in Arizona though..."I've finished the story and I'll send it when I get there." We don't have the rest of the story yet though...

Also:
Quote:

ArlenRage@SimulacraAlex I think her weakness is that of her FWBs Jerry. Exploit it.


Jerry? Have we heard the name Jerry before? (Besides on 1407oakhurst)

I'm not sure what he's suggesting we do, he's the one with Holly...I guess we need to find this Jerry.

I'm not sure about Ron, it was implied that he was CIA, but was that ever confirmed? I'm drawing a blank right now, I'm pretty tired.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:13 am
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Ryutso
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Posts: 149
Location: Miami, FL

 		YES! YA FREAKING HA WE GOT A REACTION OUT OF HOLLY!

Remember that "Watcher's Contingency" that was posted about on one of the blogs? (can't remember which) I told Rage to ask Holly about it:

Quote:
Ryutso @ArlenRage Good then. While she's cooperating ask her about Contingency Fiver12 rot(22).

ArlenRage @Ryutso She just smiles at that one. How important is it?

Ryutso @ArlenRage Well seeing as how it's a Watcher's Contingency plan, finding out about it may give us some answers.


Whoo. We may finally find out about that Contingency plan and what exactly it entails.

Also, I don't quite remember this "Jerry". Also, FWB? What?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:23 am
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classical
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 459
Location: Minneapolis, MN
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
I'm not sure about Ron, it was implied that he was CIA, but was that ever confirmed? I'm drawing a blank right now, I'm pretty tired.


Yeah. Ron was the one er, 'responsible' for sabotaging our thread and getting it pulled from uF that one time. He is not on our side.
That said, I have a feeling that Ron & co. find Bricker more valuable than they let on; like you said, they could've done away with him a long time ago if they had really wanted to completely remove him from the picture. Which is why I think Bettleheim's threat is mostly a bluff. Mostly.

Because there are still worse things yet that they could do that would mess everything up, other than just flat-out killing him.

Also!
Quote:
klokworkalex: I have far too much time on my hands Court. I ran across this and found it odd: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0246578/quotes

clas1ca: Wait ... what's odd about it ...? Er. I mean, you've seen the film, right?


No reply yet. So this continues to confuse the hell out of me. Maybe it's been too long since I've seen the film myself, but nothing in particular stands out as "odd" to me... anyone see something that doesn't fit?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:24 am
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ASimulacraOfAlex
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Location: Duluth, MN
classical wrote:

Yeah. Ron was the one er, 'responsible' for sabotaging our thread and getting it pulled from uF that one time. He is not on our side.
That said, I have a feeling that Ron & co. find Bricker more valuable than they let on; like you said, they could've done away with him a long time ago if they had really wanted to completely remove him from the picture. Which is why I think Bettleheim's threat is mostly a bluff. Mostly.

Because there are still worse things yet that they could do that would mess everything up, other than just flat-out killing him.

Also!
Quote:
klokworkalex: I have far too much time on my hands Court. I ran across this and found it odd: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0246578/quotes

clas1ca: Wait ... what's odd about it ...? Er. I mean, you've seen the film, right?


No reply yet. So this continues to confuse the hell out of me. Maybe it's been too long since I've seen the film myself, but nothing in particular stands out as "odd" to me... anyone see something that doesn't fit?


Thanks for clearing that up about Ron. I wasn't here for that, so most of what I know about that incident I had to piece together from passing references you lot made. I'm not convinced that he and TB are working together though...As far as we know Ron could be CIA, and we haven't seen anything to suggest that the CIA and NSA are working together.

Nothing strikes me as odd...or then again everything strikes me as odd about Donnie Darko quotes, its been a loonngg time here as well. Maybe ill go rent that and watch it sometime this week.

@Ryutso, a quick google for FWB comes up with Friends With Benefits. (I probably should have got that one.) So I think we can assume Jerry is Holly's lover. Hmm. I think we should find Jerry.

EDIT:
From the quotes page on IMBD:
Quote:
[from the Extended and Deleted Scenes. The class is discussing Watership Down]
Karen Pommeroy: This could be the death of an entire way of life, the end of an era...
Donnie: Why should we care?
Karen Pommeroy: Because the rabbits are us, Donnie.
Donnie: Why should I mourn for a rabbit like he was human?
Karen Pommeroy: Are you saying that the death of one species is less tragic than another?
Donnie: Of course. The rabbit's not like us. It has no... keen look at something in the mirror, it has no history books, no photographs, no knowledge of sorrow or regret... I mean, I'm sorry, Miss Pommeroy, don't get me wrong; y'know, I like rabbits and all. They're cute and they're horny. And if you're cute and you're horny, then you're probably happy, in that you don't know who you are and why you're even alive. And you just wanna' have sex, as many times as possible, before you die... I mean, I just don't see the point in crying over a dead rabbit! Y'know, who... who never even feared death to begin with.


Hmm...watership down has played heavily in this...but I dont know how this helps.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:28 am
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classical
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
Quote:
klokworkalex: Donnie Darko - like Jacob's Ladder - is a film whose story has actually been over since the beginning...those in it just don't know it.
And Arlen keeps a worn copy of Watership Down in his pocket. Not everything makes sense to me, but something about Darko resonates deeply.


Goddamn Twitter. I have so much I could say in reply to this; nothing will properly explain my thoughts in just 140 characters.

Quote:
clas1ca: Oh, Port. You have no idea how absolutely right and wrong you are.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:22 am
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Dominix
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 		it's been a while
Hiya guys and girls, it's me again.
Long time no see, I've been busy (moving, vacation, illness, school) and I'm more a lurker then a poster.
I've read everything I missed and you guys are on a roll.
I see we are now back on the Donnie Darko tour.
The last tweet got me thinking, it mentioned the movie Jacob's Ladder.
I show you why:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Plot from Wikipedia

Jacob Singer (Tim Robbins) is a U.S. soldier in the Mekong Delta during the Vietnam War. When the story begins, helicopters are passing overhead, carrying supplies for what seems to be preparations for a big Viet Cong offensive. Without any warning, Jacob's unit comes under fire. The soldiers try to take cover but begin to exhibit strange behavior for no apparent reason. Jacob attempts to escape the unexplained insanity, only to be bayonetted by an unseen enemy.

The film then shifts back and forth from Vietnam to Jacob's memories (and hallucinations) of his son Gabe (Macaulay Culkin, uncredited) and former wife Sarah (Patricia Kalember), and to his present (set in 1975) relationship with a woman named Jezebel (Elizabeth Peña) in New York City. During this latter period, Jacob faces several threats to his life and has severe hallucinatory experiences. It is subsequently revealed that his son Gabe was hit by a car and killed while Jacob was in Vietnam.

At a key moment, Jacob's friend, chiropractor and guardian angel Louis (Danny Aiello), cites the 14th century Christian mystic Meister Eckhart—"Eckhart saw Hell too; he said: 'the only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you,' he said. 'They're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and... and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.'"

As the hallucinations become increasingly bizarre, Jacob learns about chemical experiments performed on U.S. soldiers in Vietnam. One of his old army buddies is killed in a car ignition explosion. At the funeral, his surviving platoon-mates confess to Jacob they too have been seeing horrible hallucinations. Jacob is then approached by a man named Michael Newman (Matt Craven), who claims to have been a chemist working with the Army's chemical warfare division in Saigon where he worked on creating a drug that would increase aggression in soldiers. Tests of the drug (code-named "The Ladder" in reference to how it takes people straight to their primal urges) were first performed on monkeys and then on a group of enemy POWs with gruesome results. Later, small doses of "The Ladder" were secretly given to Jacob's fellow soldiers via their C-rations. Instead of targeting the enemy, however, the men in Jacob's unit attacked each other indiscriminately. This revelation insinuates that Jacob was stabbed by one of his own men.

At the denouement, we learn Jacob never made it out of Vietnam; his body is shown in an army triage tent just as he expires. Apparently, the entire series of events turns out to have been a dying hallucination. Jacob's experiences appear to have been a form of purgation in which he releases himself from his earthly attachments, finally joining his dead son Gabe to ascend a staircase (Biblically known as Jacob's Ladder) toward a bright light.

Before the film credits, an on-screen title card states that the U.S. Army allegedly experimented with a hallucinogenic drug called BZ, a claim denied by the Pentagon.


Just like Donnie, it's a movie about a series of events that were "hallucinations" of the main character. Movie start and ends with the same thing, but from what happened in between ( the "hallucination") we learn something to move on. Does this mean that the first post is what will happen to end this all?

Also:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
In Jacob's Ladder, they used chemical gasses to increase aggression in soldiers. Sounds familiar? And did BB not complain about seeing things that were not there? Maybe he also sniffed some gas?


Please say it if I'm going the wrong direction and if I'm making stupid/silly links, it's been a while for me =]

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:52 am
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ASimulacraOfAlex
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 		So my internet went out last night...so after yelling uselessly at my router for *about* 20 minutes, I decided to have a few beers and reread TGATT. I think I might have to do like classi and make my own book out of it..

Anyways. Wow. I'm stupid...Jerry is referenced in that email from T Bettelheim. Hes NSA. I dont have his email though...How are we supposed to use this as leverage against holly?

EDIT: Wait. I might have an idea...[/url]
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:41 pm
Last edited by ASimulacraOfAlex on Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ryutso
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 149
Location: Miami, FL
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
Wow. I'm stupid...Jerry is referenced in that email from T Bettelheim. Hes NSA. I dont have his email though...How are we supposed to use this as leverage against holly?

EDIT: I have an idea...


Jerry IS T Bettleheim.

Lookit the message:

Quote:
From: ************nsa.gov
To: T Bettelheim <distortedview>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: Holly



Jerry, this is getting way the hell out of hand. Division says theres a 42% chance that AR is bluffing and that Holly is fine...which leaves what a 58% chance that shes being triple played right now by a bunch of guys that AR scraped out from under some bridge. Can we just pull the plug?


From some unknown person (most likely the Cronk guy) TO T Bettleheim.

Which means Cronk is writing this message. Cronk sends it to TB and calls him Jerry.

Also lookit what T Bettleheim says:

Quote:
I want her back and I want her back alive. I don't care what it takes.


Now I don't know about you, but if FWB means "Friend with Benefits" then I'd want to save her no matter what the cost.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:58 pm
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ASimulacraOfAlex
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Posts: 184
Location: Duluth, MN
Ryutso wrote:
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
Wow. I'm stupid...Jerry is referenced in that email from T Bettelheim. Hes NSA. I dont have his email though...How are we supposed to use this as leverage against holly?

EDIT: I have an idea...


Jerry IS T Bettleheim.

Lookit the message:

Quote:
From: ************nsa.gov
To: T Bettelheim <distortedview>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: Holly



Jerry, this is getting way the hell out of hand. Division says theres a 42% chance that AR is bluffing and that Holly is fine...which leaves what a 58% chance that shes being triple played right now by a bunch of guys that AR scraped out from under some bridge. Can we just pull the plug?


From some unknown person (most likely the Cronk guy) TO T Bettleheim.

Which means Cronk is writing this message. Cronk sends it to TB and calls him Jerry.

Also lookit what T Bettleheim says:

Quote:
I want her back and I want her back alive. I don't care what it takes.


Now I don't know about you, but if FWB means "Friend with Benefits" then I'd want to save her no matter what the cost.


No, the formatting got all screwed up when I posted it on here. T Bettleheim isnt Jerry I dont think...Ill screen cap the email and upload it here so you can see what i mean. I think there are three people involved in that email convo.
Picture 7.png
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Picture 7.png
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:09 pm
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Ryutso
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Posts: 149
Location: Miami, FL
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
Ryutso wrote:
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
Wow. I'm stupid...Jerry is referenced in that email from T Bettelheim. Hes NSA. I dont have his email though...How are we supposed to use this as leverage against holly?

EDIT: I have an idea...


Jerry IS T Bettleheim.

Lookit the message:

Quote:
From: ************nsa.gov
To: T Bettelheim <distortedview>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: Holly



Jerry, this is getting way the hell out of hand. Division says theres a 42% chance that AR is bluffing and that Holly is fine...which leaves what a 58% chance that shes being triple played right now by a bunch of guys that AR scraped out from under some bridge. Can we just pull the plug?


From some unknown person (most likely the Cronk guy) TO T Bettleheim.

Which means Cronk is writing this message. Cronk sends it to TB and calls him Jerry.

Also lookit what T Bettleheim says:

Quote:
I want her back and I want her back alive. I don't care what it takes.


Now I don't know about you, but if FWB means "Friend with Benefits" then I'd want to save her no matter what the cost.


No, the formatting got all screwed up when I posted it on here. T Bettleheim isnt Jerry I dont think...Ill screen cap the email and upload it here so you can see what i mean. I think there are three people involved in that email convo.


Well I don't know how their system does forwarding, Gmail always puts the forwarded message at the bottom.

Unless the forwarding goes bottom up (which would be stupid and confusing), then Jerry is T Bettelheim.

Edit:

Sent an email off to TB, referencing the bridge in the picture along with the Bridge in the email.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:13 pm
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ASimulacraOfAlex
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Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 184
Location: Duluth, MN
Ryutso wrote:

Well I don't know how their system does forwarding, Gmail always puts the forwarded message at the bottom.

Unless the forwarding goes bottom up (which would be stupid and confusing), then Jerry is T Bettelheim.

Edit:

Sent an email off to TB, referencing the bridge in the picture along with the Bridge in the email.


Look at the line breaks.

This:
Quote:
From: ************nsa.gov
To: T Bettelheim <distortedview>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: Holly



Jerry, this is getting way the hell out of hand. Division says theres a 42% chance that AR is bluffing and that Holly is fine...which leaves what a 58% chance that shes being triple played right now by a bunch of guys that AR scraped out from under some bridge. Can we just pull the plug?


Was sent by someone else (missing the header) TO T.B., Because the "So whats it gonna take then?" email is a separate email sent by T.B. to us.

Also, the writing/typing style is inconsistent with TBs.

I replied to the email a bit ago, we'll see what he says back.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:23 pm
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Ryutso
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Posts: 149
Location: Miami, FL
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
Ryutso wrote:

Well I don't know how their system does forwarding, Gmail always puts the forwarded message at the bottom.

Unless the forwarding goes bottom up (which would be stupid and confusing), then Jerry is T Bettelheim.

Edit:

Sent an email off to TB, referencing the bridge in the picture along with the Bridge in the email.


Look at the line breaks.

This:
Quote:
From: ************nsa.gov
To: T Bettelheim <distortedview>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: Holly



Jerry, this is getting way the hell out of hand. Division says theres a 42% chance that AR is bluffing and that Holly is fine...which leaves what a 58% chance that shes being triple played right now by a bunch of guys that AR scraped out from under some bridge. Can we just pull the plug?


Was sent by someone else (missing the header) TO T.B., Because the "So whats it gonna take then?" email is a separate email sent by T.B. to us.

Also, the writing/typing style is inconsistent with TBs.

I replied to the email a bit ago, we'll see what he says back.


Exactly. It was sent by someone else TO TB and in the email it specifically called him Jerry. I didn't say that was TB emailing someone, I said that was someone emailing TB.

Whoever emailed TB called him Jerry.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:26 pm
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ASimulacraOfAlex
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Posts: 184
Location: Duluth, MN
Ryutso wrote:

Exactly. It was sent by someone else TO TB and in the email it specifically called him Jerry. I didn't say that was TB emailing someone, I said that was someone emailing TB.

Whoever emailed TB called him Jerry.


Oh gotcha. Yeah, I'm a bit hungover so I was really confused by what you were saying.
Here is how I read it...
this is from craig (as per the later email):
Quote:
What up Cronk?

It seems that your Chief's little fingerwarmer is about to sink our whole operation (lookit govtb.jpg on the G: drive). If Jer loses his nuts over this I swear I'm gonna submit a TASCO. Do we push the button on BB?

Wall-E


This is from TB:
Quote:
Jerry, this is getting way the hell out of hand. Division says theres a 42% chance that AR is bluffing and that Holly is fine...which leaves what a 58% chance that shes being triple played right now by a bunch of guys that AR scraped out from under some bridge. Can we just pull the plug?


and this is from Jerry:
Quote:
I want her back and I want her back alive. I don't care what it takes. And tell Craig to submit whatever he wants, I don't give one shit what that pissant wants to do.

Don't fail me.


And then this is from TB:
Quote:
What's it going to take then?


I think its just a screwy system, going bottom to top like you suggested. But I could be wrong...this probably isn't that important anyways, because whether or not TB is Jerry, he has access to Jerry.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:55 pm
Last edited by ASimulacraOfAlex on Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ryutso
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Posts: 149
Location: Miami, FL
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
Oh gotcha. Yeah, I'm a bit hungover so I was really confused by what you were saying. Heres the problem: In the original email from T.B. to ********@nsa.gov


Okay now this may be nit-picking, and I may be going in a completely wrong direction, it could also just be a mistake but in the email screenshot you posted, I noticed that the '@' sign was mysteriously missing from the stared-out email.

We know Jerry/TB/Craig are from the NSA, but why would you leave out the '@' sign when it's so clearly an email address?

Just noticed.

Edit:
Also, Chief's little fingerwarmer? So Jerry is the Chief of whatever department? Oooh we got some ammo then.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:01 pm
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ASimulacraOfAlex
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Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 184
Location: Duluth, MN
Ryutso wrote:
ASimulacraOfAlex wrote:
Oh gotcha. Yeah, I'm a bit hungover so I was really confused by what you were saying. Heres the problem: In the original email from T.B. to ********@nsa.gov


Okay now this may be nit-picking, and I may be going in a completely wrong direction, it could also just be a mistake but in the email screenshot you posted, I noticed that the '@' sign was mysteriously missing from the stared-out email.

We know Jerry/TB/Craig are from the NSA, but why would you leave out the '@' sign when it's so clearly an email address?

Just noticed.


Hmm...thats true.
[META]
It's probably just an accident, just like the confusing formatting of the email itself.
[/META]

But...you never know ;]

EDIT: Yup, thats partly why I dont think TB is Jerry. I think we can very much use that to our advantage...I sent an email to TB saying that if the chief wants to see holly again, we have a list of demands to be met. (Your questions, Brightman, Brickers safety)...He did say he didnt care what it took.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:05 pm
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