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ARG_research: share your experiences!
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LordIllidan
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 		I think the most real thing to me is good character interaction...In 'Therapy', Penny was a character that I (and others) actually cared about. And now miss. I know she isn't real - hell, I know she was just a delusion of someone else who wasn't real - but I still find myself wondering what she's up to. Thats a good measure of a game... being able to evoke emotional connections with the players.
[/quote]

You're definitely not alone there. A lot of the fans of XIII's work (Me and Kos in particular Razz) Have a lot of fond memories of Yori Tanaka from Con 08 (And, I suppose, the short-lived Con 09). The PM was really good as portraying her not as just a means to get another clue, or as just a plot device, but as a real, living person. She had her own interests, likes and dislikes, and, when we got tired of talking behind Junker's back, she was just as happy to unwind and talk about stupid things like Pokeymans and other animes.

A lot of us definitely spazzed out when she died. I think that's the mark of a good PM: Having your players feel so connected to the characters that they would feel really bad when they die.

Not that you always have to kill characters off, of course Razz

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:20 pm
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PinkCloud
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BubbleBoy wrote:
I believe you are delving more into a players psychology then the game itself.

There is definitely a difference in how new and old players will approach a game. Once a possible trailhead has been located old players will tend to search IPs, whois, reverse IPs, source codes, etc. for clues, being careful and knowing what to post and what to keep private (phone numbers in whois) until they are "given the word" to release the information too the public via game interaction.

New players will tend to steer more towards the obvious things like e-mailing, commenting on blogs, etc. - things that are more apt to get an immediate response. They will do this mainly because these are things that are more familiar too them. There really is not too much danger in releasing the information that is gathered from these conquests.

When you get into "what is real and what is not", you are dealing with both the ability for the PMs to tell both new and old players alike that "yes, this is a game" and for the players themselves to be able to tell themselves.

I would compare it too, say, people who are really into RPGs (Role Playing Games). You know, the ones that dress up and act out the roles for which they are assigned. Do they know that it's not real? Do they know that they are pretending? Or have they been doing this for so long that their fiction world has begun to blur itself into their reality?

Most people would probably say that those who can not are pretty sheltered, reclusive personalities and thus have a difficult time letting go of a personal connection, possibly even resulting in grief like symptoms of loss.

Granted we will have our favorite characters, but it is those who have detachment problems that will have a harder time determining the difference between reality and fantasy solely based on their need for companionship, whether real or unreal.

And with these personalities, do we ask the PMs to know how to control them or the many possible situations that can arise from these personalities being involved in the game? Probably not.

On one hand the PMs have to have some accountability in how real they make their game. Knowing that these personalities exist would probably cause one to ensure that their game isn't TOO real. On the other hand, however, we, as players, are also responsible for our own actions.


thank you for your perspective BubbleBoy, and that comment on psychology which I had to ponder about for a moment. While I do think that players' psychology is very interesting and definitely connected with my sphere of interest, right now I'm more looking at which part of the game is enhancing the 'reality' of the alternate reality - like, apparently, character interaction, and how that interaction is composed to evoke that 'reality feeling'.

When I look at situations where players got confused for a moment about the different layers of reality and fiction I would definitely love to know went on in their (and mine Wink) head. But since I come from a literary/media theory background, I am actually interested in the 'signs' of the game. What part of the game signals to me that it's 'fake' (and it turns out to be real)? And the way around. And more: How is the way how ARG communicate also rooted in culture?

For example, there was this Swedish game called "The Truth About Marika" (which won the best interactive TV service Emmy Award in 2008) which in many ways blurred the border between reality and fiction. That ARG had no forum where players could talk meta. Same in the chat that was strictly kept in-game. Part of the game was a (completely staged) "live" current affair debate program, on the national TV channel (SVT2) which is well known as being very reliable and truthful. And many more signs of the game that it was, in fact, not one. So, when those 6 weeks of ARG were over (during which people were looking for a (supposedly real) missing girl, and it became clear it was 'just' a game, many were very disappointed. It happened that the PM of the ARG were deeply into role playing and live action RP (thanks for your comment on that, BB, as well). In the Northern European countries there is a strong design ideal for LARP which is called the 360° illusion" and which aims at a seamless transition between reality and game. That might account, also together with the lack of meta space (and probably the lack of ARG experience of the traditional TV spectator) to the confusion. There was also an extensive character interaction (the PM in their roles were online ALL the time for 6 weeks). This is just a very condensed reflection about it, of course (there is an extended analysis which I wrote together with the Swedish game/media researchers Annika Waern and Marie Denward which will actually be published very soon; I can post it then).

While I think that that Swedish ARG is quite an extreme example of confusion of reality and fiction I get the impression that there are small things here and there in ARG (and in RL as well) that make us wonder what is real and what is not and look for the according signals. (of course, depending on the individual psychological abilities and stabilities of each person we interprete these signs in a different way - I think that's what you were aiming at in your last paragraph, BubbleBoy.)

Again, thanks a lot for your input which got me thinking.

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:48 pm
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Addlepated wrote:

Well, for the Charlotte game, I withheld the return address from the trailhead envelope in order to protect the identity of the puppetmasters. I did end up privately giving it to someone in San Diego whom I knew (Celina63), who shared it with you, PC, but I did not post it publicly until I realized that the game designers might have wanted it out there.

I'm not sure what someone else in my situation would have done - whether my reaction was a natural one as a player or, since I'm usually on the other side of the curtain, I was more protective than someone else would have been. I do think that this particular game had a lot of line-blurring moments, which were both exhilarating in one sense and frustrating in another, since we were taking leaps outside of the safe zone [bold by PC] with nobody to hold our little hands.


PostLarval wrote:

Often when new players arrive on the scene they can be a little too enthusiastic, following every tangential link... innocent and unsuspecting folks end up with kids crawling around their lawns late at night and voicemails full of (seemingly insane) messages. This especially happens when a game pops up and draws in a large, entirely new audience (TIMM comes to mind). However it's these folks who seem to get the greatest thrill out of playing.


BubbleBoy wrote:

There is definitely a difference in how new and old players will approach a game. Once a possible trailhead has been located old players will tend to search IPs, whois, reverse IPs, source codes, etc. for clues, being careful and knowing what to post and what to keep private (phone numbers in whois) until they are "given the word" to release the information too the public via game interaction.



So there definitely seem to be (at least) two different approaches and play-modes according to the player experience. I wonder why new players seem to indulge more in crossing the border than more experienced ones (I do understand the safety precautions of PM/players). But I wonder if there's a different approach to the reality/fiction-scenario. Maybe because playing reality is such an exciting thing at the beginning (but then: a lot of experienced players enjoy live events)? Maybe the 'safe zone' is believed to be stretching out to whatever we do for the ARG's cause? (which would be a bit naive...)

any ideas? (ok I admit: I am interested in psychological questions Smile)

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:20 pm
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notgordian
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 		I think the experienced players tend to back off from the 'total immersion' mentality because they see the effect it has on people's privacy. Example: I remember during Halo 3, the players stumbled across what they thought was a 10-digit phone number with three digits redacted. So their reaction was to call as many numbers as possible with the 7 digits they had, and hope to find something.

Apparently one of the people called had a clip from Red vs Blue (a Halo themed machinima series) on his voicemail, and the guy got bombarded with literally hundreds of unsolicited phone calls. Luckily, this guy took it fairly well. Imagine if that level of scrutiny was directed towards game developers, and justified because of its "confirmed" relation to the game. I seem to remember hearing that one of the reasons the more ARGish components of lonelygirl15 developed was to find an outlet for player/viewer efforts in pulling back the curtain and learning way too much about the producers, actors, and even their families.

As a non-ARG example, recently a class of Fordham law students collected a substantial amount o personal information about Justice Scalia. The dossier wasn't published, but included information like his wife's personal email and photos of his grandchildren.

There is a line (privacy-wise) that should be respected at least as a moral matter, if not a legal one. With ARGs, we get to stretch the boundaries and take on a voyeuristic role of knowing quite a bit about people. After playing a couple games and seeing missteps, I think most people come to realize that having that level of scrutiny turned on "innocent bystanders" is something to be extremely wary about.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:13 am
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imbriModerator
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notgordian wrote:
I think the experienced players tend to back off from the 'total immersion' mentality because they see the effect it has on people's privacy.


I think that's only a small part of a larger equation. There are, likely, a number of reasons why experienced players back off of the "total immersion" aspect.

I think that there are players at all levels of experience that crave an "immersive" experience and, I'd wager, that more experienced players have learned that "total immersion" is actually not all that "immersive" because there is just too much noise. In order to become immersed into an experience, you have to have a high ratio of signals to keep your attention and to draw you in deeper. Those with less experience get all excited by the idea that the game can be anywhere. What they fail to grasp, initially, is that does not mean that it is everywhere. However, most people quickly realize that you need to be able to discover the signals to know where the game (or story or puzzles or what have you) might actually exist.

Experienced players have learned to find those signals and to, more quickly and adeptly, ignore the noise. So, while it might look as though they are not fans of the "total immersion" it's actually quite the opposite - they are looking to become immersed. They just do it in a different way based on the skills they have built from previous experiences.

Not posting an email address or phone number may be about doing the moral or ethical thing, but it's just as likely (if not moreso) that they just don't want to waste their time or their friends by looking at and sharing what is most likely nothing more than noise when there is signal to be found, puzzles to be solved, and story to experience.


(Though, of course, the moral and ethical reasons make us sound like much better people which is cool. So maybe I'll change my answer to "what he said" Wink)

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:37 am
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PostLarval wrote:
I think the most real thing to me is good character interaction...In 'Therapy', Penny was a character that I (and others) actually cared about. And now miss. I know she isn't real - hell, I know she was just a delusion of someone else who wasn't real - but I still find myself wondering what she's up to. Thats a good measure of a game... being able to evoke emotional connections with the players.


LordIllidan wrote:

You're definitely not alone there. A lot of the fans of XIII's work (Me and Kos in particular Razz) Have a lot of fond memories of Yori Tanaka from Con 08 (And, I suppose, the short-lived Con 09). The PM was really good as portraying her not as just a means to get another clue, or as just a plot device, but as a real, living person. She had her own interests, likes and dislikes, and, when we got tired of talking behind Junker's back, she was just as happy to unwind and talk about stupid things like Pokeymans and other animes.

A lot of us definitely spazzed out when she died. I think that's the mark of a good PM: Having your players feel so connected to the characters that they would feel really bad when they die.

Not that you always have to kill characters off, of course Razz


hehehe, maybe not Smile
yeah I did also grow very fond of some of the characters of "Charlotte becoming real", especially Penny. On top of her vulnerability she also 'worked' not far away from my home which added on to the realism. I felt I could just walk down and visit her. Well I actually tried and it was a hotel and no sign of Penny, but nevermind... Wink
I just read in Henry Jenkins (Fans, Bloggers and Gamers) about the concept of "emotional realism" (originally described by Ien Ang) which sounds like it captures the idea of being touched by good character interaction.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:37 pm
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notgordian wrote:
I think the experienced players tend to back off from the 'total immersion' mentality because they see the effect it has on people's privacy. Example: I remember during Halo 3, the players stumbled across what they thought was a 10-digit phone number with three digits redacted. So their reaction was to call as many numbers as possible with the 7 digits they had, and hope to find something.

Apparently one of the people called had a clip from Red vs Blue (a Halo themed machinima series) on his voicemail, and the guy got bombarded with literally hundreds of unsolicited phone calls. Luckily, this guy took it fairly well.


gosh, poor guy! funny he was a marketing and advertising student, though. maybe that's why he took it so well Smile thanks for that interesting link. I haven't thought about the thin line between intensive play and public harrassment. I wonder if somebody will ever get sued for over the-top-ARGing... hope not!
Do you think that the privacy issue has been more challenged lately?

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:47 pm
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PinkCloud
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notgordian wrote:
I think the experienced players tend to back off from the 'total immersion' mentality because they see the effect it has on people's privacy. Example: I remember during Halo 3, the players stumbled across what they thought was a 10-digit phone number with three digits redacted. So their reaction was to call as many numbers as possible with the 7 digits they had, and hope to find something.


i forgot to ask: was there a 'right' phone number at all or was that interpretation going in the total wrong direction?

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:25 pm
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imbri wrote:

I think that there are players at all levels of experience that crave an "immersive" experience and, I'd wager, that more experienced players have learned that "total immersion" is actually not all that "immersive" because there is just too much noise. In order to become immersed into an experience, you have to have a high ratio of signals to keep your attention and to draw you in deeper. Those with less experience get all excited by the idea that the game can be anywhere. What they fail to grasp, initially, is that does not mean that it is everywhere. [bold by PinkCloud] However, most people quickly realize that you need to be able to discover the signals to know where the game (or story or puzzles or what have you) might actually exist.


good point! thank you! may I quote you on that? don't know where, yet, but I think you totally hit the spot there.
makes a lot of sense with the noise reduction. I was (and am still) overwhelmed that game space can be everywhere, or should I say: at places you don't expect to be a game. Well I actually happened to take the plane for ARG's cause so that was quite amazing.
like, that looking for a phone number for the Halo 3 ARG seems like a lot of noise. But it isn't always clear that it will be noise, is it? Or do experienced player rather wait, until they have some approving (more signals) of the direction they intend to go?

imbri wrote:

(Though, of course, the moral and ethical reasons make us sound like much better people which is cool. So maybe I'll change my answer to "what he said" Wink)


hehehe. well I guess one doesn't have to exclude the other. Smile

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:44 pm
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imbriModerator
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 		Heh, sure you can quote me on that Smile

PinkCloud wrote:

But it isn't always clear that it will be noise, is it? Or do experienced player rather wait, until they have some approving (more signals) of the direction they intend to go?


Well, if the PMs know what they're doing, it should be rather clear if something is a signal. There need to be cues and, frankly, that's one of the biggest mistakes that I see PMs making. And while I do hold players responsible for their actions, it's the designers job to make sure that the players are getting the right feedback and direction (whether explicitly stated or meta-communication within the game experience). After all, they are the ones designing the experience.

Something like the phone number is just stupid. The designers shouldn't put a partial phone number out there unless they are willing to accept that players will try to make it a complete number and they'll do so however they know how. And, they have to assume that some player somewhere will try every possible permutation until they find the one that works and, in the process, generated however many incorrect calls. That's just bad design on so many levels - I mean, aside from everything else, it's not even fun to sit by at your phone and call a hundred people in hopes that you get that right one.

Sadly, there's been enough stupid design in our history, that experienced players don't really have the patience for it anymore and once a game makes such a mistake, it's likely to lose a large number of players (or turn active players into players who don't really care so much but are hanging around in case something cool might happen).

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:37 pm
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notgordian
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PinkCloud wrote:
I just read in Henry Jenkins (Fans, Bloggers and Gamers) about the concept of "emotional realism" (originally described by Ien Ang) which sounds like it captures the idea of being touched by good character interaction.


Something else of a somewhat similar nature is the phenomenon of parasocial relationships with broadcast media...one of the more telling examples can be seen in the relationships people develop with local (and even national) news anchors. Even without a traditional understanding of two-way conversations, these bonds can form.

PinkCloud wrote:
i forgot to ask: was there a 'right' phone number at all or was that interpretation going in the total wrong direction?


Honestly, I'm not sure. I wasn't following the game very closely, my ears just tend to perk up at the sound of controversy. I'm fairly sure the numbers didn't lead to a telephone number, but I don't remember if that was a puzzle or just background noise. A lot of problems like the wrong phone number problem for Halo 3 can happen no matter how careful you are, since the collective intelligence will filter through a lot more wrong answers than a relatively small group would be able to expect.

Back in the 80s and 90s, a bunch of Silicon Valley guys engaged in a rich man's version of alternate reality gaming that probably came as close to "total immersion" as we're going to see for quite a while (although the trip to Germany came fairly close). One year, someone got badly injured based on a misunderstanding of where the border between fact and fiction was, and there was a lawsuit about whether the man's trust had been violated or whether it was a matter of assumption of risk.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:14 pm
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PinkCloud
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notgordian wrote:

Back in the 80s and 90s, a bunch of Silicon Valley guys engaged in a rich man's version of alternate reality gaming that probably came as close to "total immersion" as we're going to see for quite a while (although the trip to Germany came fairly close). One year, someone got badly injured based on a misunderstanding of where the border between fact and fiction was, and there was a lawsuit about whether the man's trust had been violated or whether it was a matter of assumption of risk.


omg, how horrible. "The Game" doesn't even sound like an game but rather like some serious sports contest. what's intriguing about this case is, as sad as it is, though: when everything can mean everything, even a "no!" or "don't got there!" can be read as an invitation. A colleague of mine told me once that with full immersive environments like some ARGs it's kinda the same as in bondage sex games: you need a code word or something that you absolutely and always can trust as being 'real' so you know when to stop, or when you reach the border of game.

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 2:22 am
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Giskard
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 		I've been trying to put into words the very compelling feeling of following the first few weeks of the Metacortechs ARG and on the one hand knowing that the stuff you are looking at and following can't actually be real, but still, in the back of your head, keep doubting it just enough to be careful about what you actually do and say playing the game.

Then again, it has already been put into words so elegantly by all the writers of the MU Book, that I'd best just link you there in case you haven't read it yet... available in webpage form or actual book form and in the opinion of a lot of its readers a very valuable relay of player experience </shamelessplug> Wink
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:11 am
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Giskard wrote:
I've been trying to put into words the very compelling feeling of following the first few weeks of the Metacortechs ARG and on the one hand knowing that the stuff you are looking at and following can't actually be real, but still, in the back of your head, keep doubting it just enough to be careful about what you actually do and say playing the game.


Yeah it is so funny. It this form of "willing suspense of disbelief" (Coleridge) that we perform when reading a book or watching a movie. But it is so much more real due to different reasons, one definitely being the game talking back at you.
I played Eagle Eye: Free Fall yesterday and getting phonecalls makes it so immersive...

Quote:

Then again, it has already been put into words so elegantly by all the writers of the MU Book, that I'd best just link you there in case you haven't read it yet... available in webpage form or actual book form and in the opinion of a lot of its readers a very valuable relay of player experience </shamelessplug> Wink


Thank you!
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ARGs blur the lines between reality and fiction - too much or not enough? http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27782
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:00 pm
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The Mirror
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 		Hi Mela!!
I'd love to help in any way I can, and maybe we can share sources! My real name is Heather and I'm a PhD specializing in the history and sociology of performance. I'm starting an article relating ARGs to Augusto Boal's Invisible Theatre.

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:20 pm
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