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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
[META] I'm Sorry
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classical
Unfettered


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 459
Location: Minneapolis, MN

As far as Brian Bricker goes, no idea. Right now, we're supposed to believe he's completely OOG, despite the fact that there are a lot of holes in his story as well as the fact that he types a lot like Ron did. In game, the characters kept trying to convince us that he was all OOG... not that I totally trust any of them. :B

That was the confusing part, really--what was in game and what wasn't. And how many questions we got without any sort of answer... all of which still remain now. Meh. I just want to know what happens!
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:26 pm
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elfis
Boot


Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 27
Location: Tejas

classical wrote:
Except for the fact that we were having problems with OOG intereference--certain people believed that this game was being run with malicious intent.


Hmm, well from what's been described that was true.

classical wrote:
If you know the story behind Dream's End, then... you'd understand the kind of crazy we were dealing with.


Hey, I resemble that remark.

But again, he suggested malicious intent and the blurring of the lines and pushing the envelope of da rules - and that several players were PMs.

And I asked whether this could be a PM recruitment ARG a la previous projects of the alleged PM behind this.

classical wrote:
In short: this has been a month-long xxxxxxx of epic proportions.

Funny that no one seemed to see it.


"Funny ha ha," again, I think that is what DE was pushing all along: that this ARG was a mindFbom.

kosmopol wrote:
It reminds me about a great ARG I played for a while (Conspiracy 08 ) where the meta level became ingame level: Firstly there was a nice conspiracy ARG, which collapsed after the PM get some problems with people, who thought it were for real. Many players thought, it were over, but we didn't gave up - and finally we were contacted by a guy, whose friend was player of this ARG and disappeared.


Isn't that just like Majestic and so many other ARGs though?

Big props to the Mods for protecting the copyrights of the writer.

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:01 pm
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PinkCloud
Decorated


Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 175
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

classical wrote:


For now, really, I think I'm done with ARGs for a while. This is the first game I've actually become active in, but the second one I've really attached myself to only to watch it tank. I must be bad luck or something, heh. It broke both established and unspoken rules of unFiction and ARGs in a lot of instances, but... I think that's where I learned to love it, you know?


wow, why did I miss that? sounds fantastic. thanks for the summary classical!
what kind of established and unspoken rules of unFiction and ARGs are you talking about? could you spell some out for me, please?
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:07 pm
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classical
Unfettered


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 459
Location: Minneapolis, MN

PinkCloud wrote:
what kind of established and unspoken rules of unFiction and ARGs are you talking about? could you spell some out for me, please?


The whole thing began with an IG character posting in the forums. Which, as far as unF rules go, is a huge no-no.

There was one point where a character was talking about a flyer that they'd found posted in San Fransciso. We had an SF localite check out the area, but they didn't find anything. However, a one-time poster 'DaleoftheBay' somehow found one of them, but it had been edited to highlight a coded phrase "demolay is rage!". Which, at that point, didn't make any sense to us, though we soon discovered Jack DeMolay was Arlen Rage.
Anyway, we later figured out that 'DaleoftheBay' was apart of the opposing force called the Watchers, and therefore, was an IG character.

There was a couple other instances where the PM used plants to point out clues that we'd missed, some in the chat and elsewhere in the thread. We had a frequent chat visitor who never posted in the forums named "Becky" that we eventually figured out to a plant--kinda the PM's way of checking in on us.

The PM also wasn't afraid to reference what was going on in the forums or the chat through the characters. Arlen Rage, especially, would give us cryptic tweets to 'stay between the ditches' and such whenever we started getting off track.

Those are the big ones I remember. Anyone else can feel free to add.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:54 pm
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TTHSK
Boot

Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 13

I'm fairly sure "Becky" posted at least once.

Also, the PM twice pretended to be "the PMs" - first with a letter from a later IG email address apologising for driving people away from a 'student project' thing, and a second time as the 'guy' behind the fake bricker, who was part of a 'company'.

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:06 pm
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

It's official: I'm confused.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:51 am
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BlackandBlue
Veteran


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 92
Location: Chatsworth, CA

Who isn't/wasn't

Nighthawk, you aren't the only one. Every step of this has been beyond confusing. Even if you were following closely, you wouldn't be any less confused. You might even be more confused, 'cause I sure am. Sad

I just checked out chat and the Mods are in abundance (thank you Addle and SpaceBass and the others) but I'm gonna have to pass. I did want to let Wulf, classi, Munki and the rest of those from chat last night that know what I'm referencing that no contact has been made following the tweet situation that occurred and the phone call, at least not to my email.

I'll follow this thread for a bit to see what transpires. Certainly not a continuation of this debacle hopefully, but I always love :meta: and reading everyone's posts.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:59 am
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Pixiestix
Resident Angry Midget


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 2465
Location: Tomorrow's Talk Studios

classical wrote:

We had a frequent chat visitor who never posted in the forums named "Becky" that we eventually figured out to a plant--kinda the PM's way of checking in on us.


Not only is there no unspoken rule about this, but frequently PMs themselves, or someone BTS monitors chat to see what's going on and if we need help. If "Becky" never posted or spoke in a chatroom designed to be OOG then this one single instance isn't against any rules, and fully recommended!

Heck, after Urban Hunt, they gave the players a page of quotes from the players from chat that the PM team found humorous! They didn't just minitor, they logged.

The rest, yeah, rulebreakers. grrr, bad, evil, bad, grrr.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:09 am
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Yo-L
Boot


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 25
Location: ZH, The Netherlands, Europe

The biggest rule-break was the stuff about the writer I guess?
It all has been said before:

It appears that the PM involved his formal employer Brian Bricker in the story, and made him into a character. Without Brian Bricker knowing. He incorporated personal information without consent. Including hints to the current and former home addresses of Brian Bricker. He exposed old family photo's and other personal belongings. He involved the deceased mother of Brian.
Some photo's, a jumpdrive (was that Brickers?) and an old theater ticket got in the hands of the players.
All the source material from the story was stolen copyrighted work.
The PM had access to Brian Brickers website, and modified that to use it in the story.

All because the PM didn't get his paycheck.

If this is all true, it is an ARG-gone-wrong.
If it's all part of the Game, it had a really unsatisfying ending.
Either way, I find it an intriguing dark story. With a twist.


So Wulf, you got the photo's. Have you sent them back yet?

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:18 am
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167

OK, now I see the sense of the uF rules rightly... Actually I was wondering for years why are the ARG rules here a little bit ehm conservative [as I thought] (sorry guys and gals): it's forbidden to cross the meta level and to post for an ingame character in the threads.

I for myself was always playing with the idea how to break this rule and to make a postmodern ARG or something like this, like Rachel Blake blaming LOST show crew in their ignorance about dangerous Hanso (surely, it was great, but it wasn't unfiction board). But now I will rethink this idea. It isn't conservativity behind this convention - it's safety for the players not to be fully irritated.

This case of "I'm sorry" shows the danger of such surely revolutionary PM acting (well, in literature such level crossings are always revolutionary, like Borges, Cortazar or Danielewski did it, also in theater, like Stanislavski at the one hand and Meyerhold at the another).

Perhaps we should remind the words of Daniel Farraday: everybody needs a constant. Especially if there are many realities we're acting in. And if also our reality begins to quake, the fun ends.

Even if ARG pretends to be reality, it should give the player a possibility to escape and to look at the whole scenario with distance.

(I am not a pm of this ARG btw, don't misunderstood me pls)
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:31 am
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imbriModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

kosmopol wrote:
Perhaps we should remind the words of Daniel Farraday: everybody needs a constant. Especially if there are many realities we're acting in. And if also our reality begins to quake, the fun ends.

Even if ARG pretends to be reality, it should give the player a possibility to escape and to look at the whole scenario with distance.


Exactly Smile

ARGs are played virtually so, unlike street games, there's no huddle or coffee shop to duck into in order to bond with other players and compare notes. Unfiction is like our virtual coffee shop.

That doesn't mean that there can't be some sort of postmodern ARG. It just shouldn't be designed with the idea that the characters can post here. UF is a player's playground, not a puppetmaster's.

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:26 am
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classical
Unfettered


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 459
Location: Minneapolis, MN

While I want to say I didn't mind the crossing of boundaries... it got a little out of hand at times. Made the paranoia go rampant on our side. >_> We spent too much time trying to figure out who was a plant and who wasn't, rather than just going with it.

Pixiestix wrote:
If "Becky" never posted or spoke in a chatroom designed to be OOG then this one single instance isn't against any rules, and fully recommended!

Only problem was that she didn't. ;D She would chat briefly with us, mostly to 'catch up' on the game (or with what we understood) and, as TTHSK points out, she did post once under a guest account.

In any case, it's good to know that y'all are confused, because that means I'm not the only one, then! Heheh. Part of me is still waiting for that email from the Watchers or that phone call from Bricker that just drags me down into the rabbit hole again... because this doesn't feel done yet. I don't want this to be over, as frustrating was it was!
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:16 am
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Wulf74
Unfettered


Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 680
Location: SLC, Utah

Yo-L wrote:

So Wulf, you got the photo's. Have you sent them back yet?


That's the strange thing. There were a few photos included in the book I got, along with what I'm assuming was supposed to be Port's wedding ring. You can see all of it here
.

But after I received it - there was almost no discussion, or reference to it. A few days ago, when the "Hazel's" from the Hazeltine blog were actually responding to questions - I asked them about it. Their response, essentially said to me "it's not part of the game", or "don't worry about it - it's not important".

Which made it even more strange. There was quite a bit in the book, but nothing that looked like an actual clue/puzzle - just the thoughts of a man that had been thru a ton of @#$^ and was on the edge. So I dunno. The pictures that were included in the book - one was supposed to be a picture of his deceased daughter, and one - (this one makes less sense), but a picture of a small boy dated 1972, which I assume was Port.

The note included in with the package, addressed to me, said simply "this is all I have in the world and i don't want to lose it too". So I've got it all - just no clue what to do with it. Even Bricker didn't seem concerned about it.

/shrug
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:08 pm
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BubbleBoy
Decorated


Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Posts: 271
Location: United States

When I started and read the rules I was kind of torn because I was in the frame of mind that if my characters are supposed to be "real" and this board is real then it would only make sense that characters would end up here.

However, with time I have viewed these games in a different light.

Now I view the game as something that exists on another plain of existence. Something that, rather than reality bleeding into the game, the game may bleed into reality. While the game exists in our world, the narrative does not. We are only seeing a glimpse of what is going on in the world that is being created.

The rabbit hole is like a portal that allows you access into that world, in addition to allowing the characters into ours. Rather than e-mail being e-mail, it's more like a communication. A video is a visual transmission, so on and so forth.

It's as if our reality reaches out and grabs a piece of theirs.

RLE's are like seeing a ghost. They are there in our reality one minute, then they are back in theirs. They are like bringing the game world into our own for a while.

Packages sent follow a similar train of thought.

So it's not that UF doesn't exist at all. It just doesn't exist in their world.

Chat rooms are like streets, or conference rooms, or a place where the two realities touch for a little while, or whatever need they are filling. They reach out into the cosmos in the hopes of making contact with the other side.

I hope my explanation helps a bit. I tend to ramble.

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:09 pm
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BlackandBlue
Veteran


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 92
Location: Chatsworth, CA

Aftermath Meta

classical wrote:
While I want to say I didn't mind the crossing of boundaries... it got a little out of hand at times. Made the paranoia go rampant on our side. >_> We spent too much time trying to figure out who was a plant and who wasn't, rather than just going with it.


It was the reverse for me, classical. Like was said before, this is all virtual and we do not have "coffee klatches" (other than chat, which in this case was also considered IG by the PM) to share information. That is what the uF boards are for. And when something comes in the mail/email and you don't have a way to know if everyone got it, or only you got it or what ever, and then you try to post something and the PM has a fit and removes information because you "shared", that makes for a frustrating and annoying situation.

I am totally for the uF rule of in game characters not posting on these boards for that very reason, as well as others. I am fine with IG characters coming into chat, as long as they not doing so to change the game every two seconds, based on what they read in the chat.

I guess what I'm saying is that for me , privacy to share information openly with other players and not have all players punished for it, is essential to the trust I'm being asked to place in the PM. That and having some sense that they have a plan and that they will stick to it, while harming no one. That includes players, any real people that are mentioned in the game, observing legalities, keeping personal information private, etc. The operative word here is GAME. It shouldn't lead to any one having to take legal action against anyone (no matter how suspect that "legal action" threat was) because of the content of a game.

[edit to acknowledge bubbleboy's post and edit 2 getting the quote tags right]
Quote:
When I started and read the rules I was kind of torn because I was in the frame of mind that if my characters are supposed to be "real" and this board is real then it would only make sense that characters would end up here.



Here is my personal opinion: if the idea is that TINAG, then why would someone that is a character in that mindset think to go to uF at all? That stretches incredulity a little too far past the bending point, IMO.

I can say that if I (as a character of the PM) had someone show up at my door brandishing a gun and trying to take me to jail, I wouldn't be looking for ARG player boards to discuss it. To me, as that character, it would be real.

It is the same reason why most players do not mention to characters they contact that they are part of a game that the uF Member is playing and got information on uF about them from other players. Players are asked to assume that TINAG to the characters, so they act accordingly. A player may say that he/she has "associates looking into the matter" or "I and people I know are investigators and we are offering help to you", but how many players are going to say, "Oh yeah - I'm with a group of people that post on an alternate reality game board and we are playing this game that you are a character in, and we'd like to find out if you can give us a clue?"Wink

And Wulf, I'd keep the stuff from your package as swag. At least you got something out of the month long confusion that has real world value. Wink

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:28 pm
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