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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
[META] I'm Sorry
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
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imbriModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

 		So, a very much real person (identity verified) has claimed that his identity was stolen, that his copyright was being infringed upon, and that he was upset that personal information about him and his family was posted in various places online without his consent is now saying that the when he asked for this to stop, he was doing so under duress by the same guy that stole his identity and copyright... and we're not supposed to call the police? and y'all are excited to jump back in on all of this and play along?

Whether or not you believe that Brian is in on this, there is something really sick and twisted about all of this. To each their own, of course, but I don't grasp why anyone would enjoy being manipulated in this way or how anyone could trust a person that would do these sorts of things.

Morally and ethically, this game is just all sorts of wrong - and that comes from someone who was completely fascinated by The Human Pet. There are lines and this is one that I just cannot cross.

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:49 pm
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BlackandBlue
Veteran


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 92
Location: Chatsworth, CA

 		I'm with imbri
While I'm loving the meta and would like to see this dialog continue - I am out of the "game".

If Brian and Ron (under whatever guises) insist on sending me information (since this guy insists on doing one on one communiques) , it will be uFPM'd or emailed on to anyone that still cares, but I'm out. I'm a dominant, not a masochist. LOL

For some reason, this "continuation" smacks of someone that saw the advantage of the promotion for his book through an ARG, and decided to make lemonade out of the lemons. BB got a lot of emotional support through people telling him how good the manuscript was, and it's possible that he's glommed onto that "celebrity" to try and get a publishing deal for the finished book. I can almost imagine the thought process:

Quote:
"My webmaster did this to get back at me for not paying him. He got a bunch of people to read my draft and they liked it. I was going to pay him anyway, and did pay him extra, and then I found out that he'd already started this game, so why not take advantage of it? Maybe I can carry on by starting a new twist by saying that I really didn't want it to end, Ron did. Yeah - that's it. I'll ask them to not use my home phne any more, but maybe I can use coded emails, with one of those LeetKey things and they will give me enough emails and message board posts back to convince a publisher to pay me to finish the book! There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?"


FEH!!!!!!
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PM'd - Kronos480BC

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:15 pm
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Wulf74
Unfettered


Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 680
Location: SLC, Utah

 		I don't think the game is being played here - as this is just a Meta forum. It was simply a response to someone's question...?

As for those of you that have decided not to follow this - I definitely understand your reasoning. It does seem masochistic at times - and utterly confusing.

For me however, I spent a month with it, and am not quite ready to give up so easily. It's been a wild ride so far, with a lot of boundaries being broken - some good, some bad, but definitely a new type of ARG. I'm glad to see it hasn't ended and am looking forward to what's next.
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I'd like to offer moral support, but I have questionable morals.
Currently being played by: Rule the Gun

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:25 pm
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

 		It's less an ARG, more a psych experiment in how far people are willing to be manipulated - voluntarily! Where's the safe word? There is none. At this point, nobody will ever believe the game is over, and nobody will ever believe if and when the real PM steps out from behind the curtain. That's what, four meta stories so far?

1) Rogue Eric having a conversation not approved of by the head PM.
2) Group of students experimenting in a collaborative ARG.
3) Ron stealing Brian Bricker's work as revenge for not getting paid and posting it as an ARG.
4) Brian Bricker is being held hostage by government agents, one of whom is Ron.

It's one thing to wink at meta, but this is something beyond the pale. Are the players still having fun?
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Give a man a match, and he is warm for a night. Light a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:27 pm
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Grady Martin
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Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 76

 		it's okay with me
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"It's okay with me." - Gould's Marlowe

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:33 pm
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Wulf74
Unfettered


Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 680
Location: SLC, Utah
addlepated wrote:
<snip> Are the players still having fun?<snip>


Without a doubt.
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I'd like to offer moral support, but I have questionable morals.
Currently being played by: Rule the Gun

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:40 pm
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BlackandBlue
Veteran


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 92
Location: Chatsworth, CA

 		Not my intention to dissuade any one...
Please note that I am not tying to dissuade anyone else from continuing with the game, I am only speaking for myself.

I can see where people, (classical and Wulf and a couple of others), have so much invested that they HAVE to follow this to the end. I was there with those that are still playing at the time in chat that the phone number was added, from the twitter lead, but not now that BB is changing his story (again). That's why I'm saying that if anything is sent to me by the PM(s) I will happily forward it on to someone who is still playing. Heck, I'll even lurk a thread if players can get the mods to let them start a new one, and if the PMs will let players share information in one. I might even visit chat once in awhile, because I like the folks that were playing.

I love what addlepated said he saw it as: A psyche experiment. I know I'm not wholly sane already, I don't need this ARG to point it out and add to it. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:40 pm
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E.Y.E. Spy
PHP Ninja


Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Slidell, LA

 		This... thing... is... crazy... what... in... the... world... is... going... on... here... ?...
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E.Y.E. Spy with my little E.Y.E.

Played: T.S.O., Priestly Industries
Lurking: Everything
PMed: ArgenSoft, The Wolfbane Project, THEDARTNET, Kevin Balderock
Playing: Marble Hornets

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:57 pm
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syntacticAtrocity
Unfettered


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 313

 		Okham's Razor.
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Played: PerplexCity | Vanishing Point | I'm Sorry
Playing: Sunshine Mine | A Plea for Help

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:39 pm
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imbriModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

 		Re: Not my intention to dissuade any one...
BlackandBlue wrote:
Please note that I am not tying to dissuade anyone else from continuing with the game, I am only speaking for myself.


While I would dissaude people from getting involved, I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for playing because, well, to each their own.

But! In my opinion, one of the most important things in games and play is trust. Play is often about exploring new ideas and establishing boundaries. Think of cute little lion cubs fighting with each other - they're playing, but they're starting to establish their social order and learning their moves and how to attack and defend. Once that playful nip turns into a bite, it's not play anymore, it's an attack and none of the other cubs will play with the biter any more. Why? They don't trust him to not hurt them.

While we're not cute little lion cubs, we still require that trust when we play. Whether we're toddlers or adults, we don't want to play with someone who is going to pee in the sandbox or pull our hair or take our toys or trick us and tell us lies. The PMs of this game have done an ARG version of all of that. So, I can't and don't trust them and if a friend asked me about the game, I'd tell them that and mention that there are a lot of other games out there - games that were written and designed by people who understand the importance of trust and will respect their players enough to show them that.

If that friend did decide to play, I'd probably feel compelled to remind them that there is no telling who is behind this game. They have said all sorts of things and claimed to be a number of different people. They have also talked about maliciously using the information that they have on someone. So, I'd remind them to be extra careful on what sort of information they handed over and that it might be wise to create an email account specifically for this game. But then, I might just be paranoid.

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:44 pm
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Tempestdevil
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 70
Location: Fairbanks, AK

 		God damn you and your mind games, Brian Bricker.

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:27 pm
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BlackandBlue
Veteran


Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 92
Location: Chatsworth, CA

 		Re: Not my intention to dissuade any one...
imbri wrote:

If that friend did decide to play, I'd probably feel compelled to remind them that there is no telling who is behind this game. They have said all sorts of things and claimed to be a number of different people. They have also talked about maliciously using the information that they have on someone. So, I'd remind them to be extra careful on what sort of information they handed over and that it might be wise to create an email account specifically for this game. But then, I might just be paranoid.


Agreed imbri. What is the ARG version of caveat emptor? Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people are not out to get me. It actually goes beyond a new email for me.... it also means watch what you are discussing in chat, watch for whoIS info on your personal sites that the PM may be able to find... whether we know it or not, most of us give up too much personal information on the web, even when we should know better.

This is an unrelated case of that, but it does demonstrate admirably how it happens: There's a business board that a former client of mine has been posting on, each post by this person is meant to read as from "an outside party" and always supporting the client's company.

Someone finally took umbrage to this constant cultish devotion by the one poster towards this company, no matter who stupidly they seem to run their business. The disgruntled poster did a goggle search on this user name. That poster turned up my former client as being the same person as the board poster that was constantly sending Hosannas about the company.

How did he find the truth? Google turned up an email address listing in Yahoo under my client's real name that exactly matched the posting name my former client used on the board, it also just happened to be the client's initials and his wife's initials run together, AND the search turned up a whoIS using that email address that also gave his real name. It was simple deduction to see that he was posting about himself in glowing third person terms.

Okay - I know that I'm preaching to the choir here. We are all grownups (or close enough) and we know all this right? Well, stop and think about what you post in meta and see if you are giving away anything you didn't realize you had. This isn't judging, we all do it. I do it, and I should know better. The majority of humans are trusting by nature. The small percent that aren't are usually sociopaths, or have egos that are simply too big to consider that they might be vulnerable.

and LOL @TempestDevil
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Current - lurking everything Smile
Past Play - Lost Experience, Cloverfield, Push, NV
PM'd - Kronos480BC

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:54 pm
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imbriModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

 		Re: Not my intention to dissuade any one...
BlackandBlue wrote:
Okay - I know that I'm preaching to the choir here. We are all grownups (or close enough) and we know all this right? Well, stop and think about what you post in meta and see if you are giving away anything you didn't realize you had. This isn't judging, we all do it. I do it, and I should know better.


Yeah, it's pretty crazy how easy it is to find info on people. Book 1 of Eldritch had a lot to do with internet security and, to start that theme off, we launched the game by mailing packages to various people and we got all of that information online starting with nothing more than forum nicknames (unfiction, mostly, but also various lovecraft & larp forums). Usually it went from there to websites to whois info, but some required a bit more digging that that. Basically, I got to spend a day doing nothing more than stalking people Wink

Of course, the game launched and everyone decided that we had used lists we'd gathered from previous games, never mind how inappropriate that would be and, in some cases, completely violate various agreements. Gah. I was so frustrated over that... "what?! do they trust us that little?" "all that work and they think I just snagged it off some list?!" "comeon people! think! you know you didn't play X, Y, or Z or give that info over! how did we get it!"

But, it is really easy to find info on people and, while that's a bit scary, it's not all that bad. You just have to be aware of it and prepared for it. Once you are, you can protect yourself a bit. Like, if you do want to play a game where you don't trust the PMs, do not interact with the characters under any known identity. It's not that hard to set up a new email or twitter account.

Why is it that meta-threads so often go off in all sorts of tangents when I'm around Wink

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:17 pm
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classical
Unfettered


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 459
Location: Minneapolis, MN

 		Re: Not my intention to dissuade any one...
imbri wrote:
So, I'd remind them to be extra careful on what sort of information they handed over and that it might be wise to create an email account specifically for this game. But then, I might just be paranoid.


Oh, no, I totally hear you. Here: me, being dumb, used my personal email address in this game, which is connected to my personal domain. Because of this, the PM of this game was able to do a quick whois on the address the domain was registered to, in which he sent the ticket to. ... and furthermore made an entire puzzle out of that address when they realized that I wasn't living there anymore, hrr hrr. (Hazel Teen, anyone?)

I didn't give out that information freely, but because I used a personal email address in game, it appeared that I was, in a way, willingly giving out that information. Information is especially easy to find. I mean, man, look how we tracked down the real Bricker. You just have to know where to look.
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:59 pm
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Agent Lex
Entrenched


Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 1188
Location: No longer London, still in England

 		Re: Not my intention to dissuade any one...
imbri wrote:
Of course, the game launched and everyone decided that we had used lists we'd gathered from previous games, never mind how inappropriate that would be and, in some cases, completely violate various agreements. Gah. I was so frustrated over that... "what?! do they trust us that little?" "all that work and they think I just snagged it off some list?!" "comeon people! think! you know you didn't play X, Y, or Z or give that info over! how did we get it!"


Actually, I don't think it's "trust us that little" at all. I'd feel much better knowing a PM used information I gave them previously, rather than digging up information about me from elsewhere, purely because they picked my name out of the people here. I trust the list more.

Also, Occam/Okham's razor. It's far simpler to think "oh, a list" rather than "oh, they searched online, finding information about me in places I never would have thought".

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:34 am
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