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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Flynn Lives
[TRAILHEAD?] Tron
Moderators: enaxor, Euchre, spaceboy, thebruce
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IllusionOfLife
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 289
Location: West Jordan, UT
Timeline comparisons
madopal wrote:
Also, and I have NOTHING to base this on, but it seems to me like the movie has changed. What appeared to be a love letter to the fans has seemingly morphed into an attempt at making Tron a huge mainstream success (something it never was). As the buzz grew, it could be that the idea of the ARG (and the funding for it) got diverted to other areas. Thus, we have multiple websites, multiple Twitter/Facebook, etc. It just smacks of a lack of focus.


You have to realize, Disney never intended to drop over $150 Million into a niche genre piece. They want TRON: Legacy to be a mainstream success and they're doing all they can to make it happen. True, Disney has done a great job of getting the fans on board, but this was never just a love letter.

Remember, when Disney first showed the test footage at Comic-Con 2008, they were testing the waters, they needed to see if there was a market for a new TRON movie (or should I say "TR2N"). Since then they hype has built and Disney is making this their biggest tent pole feature of the year. Everything from theme park tie-ins to filming several scenes in the expensive IMAX format.

I don't know the reasons behind this hiatus, but I can assure you, this isn't a shift of focus. Despite everything I've said, I wouldn't be worried, though; the film looks effing amazing! Yes, Disney wants this to be a mainstream success, but in my book, they're going after that goal in a good way. John Lasseter's philosophy has always been that "quality is the best business plan" and it looks like Disney is finally starting to get on board with that idea. Also, it doesn't hurt that the Pixar brain-trust have given notes to the project because they certainly have the midas touch of the film industry.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:16 pm
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madopal
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Chicago, IL
Timeline comparisons
IllusionOfLife wrote:
You have to realize, Disney never intended to drop over $150 Million into a niche genre piece. They want TRON: Legacy to be a mainstream success and they're doing all they can to make it happen. True, Disney has done a great job of getting the fans on board, but this was never just a love letter.

Remember, when Disney first showed the test footage at Comic-Con 2008, they were testing the waters, they needed to see if there was a market for a new TRON movie (or should I say "TR2N"). Since then they hype has built and Disney is making this their biggest tent pole feature of the year. Everything from theme park tie-ins to filming several scenes in the expensive IMAX format.


But that's exactly my point. They had to be working on ARG stuff before they even knew more than just the initial teaser buzz. To me, that means they hedged a bit. Sure, spending this much on a movie means they want more than just a cult fave, but it's a *big* risk making a sequel to a movie that tanked, and everyone at Disney knows it.

Also, it's a pet theory of mine, but since Lasseter has been quoted before as saying how Tron opened his eyes to the possibilities of CG, that without him so influential in Disney, there's no way the sequel would have gotten a green light.

And again, given the unpredictable nature so far (Daft Punk's rumored cancel, long break here), I'd love to be a fly on the wall at 42 Entertainment.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:09 pm
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Phylos
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Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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Location: Clovis, CA [USA]
Timeline comparisons
madopal wrote:
IllusionOfLife wrote:
You have to realize, Disney never intended to drop over $150 Million into a niche genre piece. They want TRON: Legacy to be a mainstream success and they're doing all they can to make it happen. True, Disney has done a great job of getting the fans on board, but this was never just a love letter.

Remember, when Disney first showed the test footage at Comic-Con 2008, they were testing the waters, they needed to see if there was a market for a new TRON movie (or should I say "TR2N"). Since then they hype has built and Disney is making this their biggest tent pole feature of the year. Everything from theme park tie-ins to filming several scenes in the expensive IMAX format.


But that's exactly my point. They had to be working on ARG stuff before they even knew more than just the initial teaser buzz. To me, that means they hedged a bit. Sure, spending this much on a movie means they want more than just a cult fave, but it's a *big* risk making a sequel to a movie that tanked, and everyone at Disney knows it.

Also, it's a pet theory of mine, but since Lasseter has been quoted before as saying how Tron opened his eyes to the possibilities of CG, that without him so influential in Disney, there's no way the sequel would have gotten a green light.

And again, given the unpredictable nature so far (Daft Punk's rumored cancel, long break here), I'd love to be a fly on the wall at 42 Entertainment.


Maybe it's not so much a lack of focus, but perhaps, due to changes in direction planned aspects of the ARG are no longer feasible and therefore, need to be restructured. Perhaps this extra long pause is just a result of this restructuring and there is more to come.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:26 pm
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EDGECRUSHER
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010
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Timeline comparisons
madopal wrote:

Daft Punk's rumored cancel...


Shocked What?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:32 am
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Christien
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Joined: 15 Apr 2010
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Location: Montreal, Canada

 		Just wondering, has anybody given consideration to the possibility that the ARG might be over? I'm probably wrong, but look at the way the last few things went down...

We found the secret codes that Flynn left in the Space Paranoids game. We use them to get into his old sever where we learn he's been entering the digital world.
So, we go to his old arcade, find his workshop in the back,then get digitized into the actual server where Flynn has been for the last 20 years.

You know, that could be interpreted as a conclusion. We were looking for Flynn, and the game led us right to where he is. Cue the movie.

Again, I'm probably wrong here, but since there is only 3 months to the movie, maybe Disney figures the ARG has given the film as much publicity as it can and now wants to concentrate on some "real" promotion.
I don't really believe this, but it is a possibility, so I figured I would throw it out there for discussion.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:48 am
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mach1monorail
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EDGECRUSHER wrote:
madopal wrote:

Daft Punk's rumored cancel...


Shocked What?


i believe it was only briefly discussed on here. at comic con there were rumblings about extending the hours for the last night (Saturday) Flynn's Arcade was open...everyone was like "oh that's cool"...nothing else...but at the last minute they decided to just close it at the normal time...7pm (actually 6:45...i was out front when they closed and they wouldnt let me in)

then a day or two later we heard rumors that Daft Punk was supposed to play a surprise show the final night during the extra hours but had to cancel last minute...nobody officially verified this, however

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:50 am
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madopal
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mach1monorail wrote:
EDGECRUSHER wrote:
madopal wrote:
Daft Punk's rumored cancel...
Shocked What?

i believe it was only briefly discussed on here. at comic con there were rumblings about extending the hours for the last night (Saturday) Flynn's Arcade was open...everyone was like "oh that's cool"...nothing else...but at the last minute they decided to just close it at the normal time...7pm (actually 6:45...i was out front when they closed and they wouldnt let me in)

then a day or two later we heard rumors that Daft Punk was supposed to play a surprise show the final night during the extra hours but had to cancel last minute...nobody officially verified this, however


Also, this was on Tomopop about the Daft Punk figures:
Quote:
"Well, we just showed you the new Tron: Legacy figures on hand at San Diego Comic Con, but there was one more thing hidden away at that booth... DAFT PUNK! Ok, no, not the band, but new Daft Punk figures! While Daft Punk was scheduled to perform a surprise concert, which they canceled, they did still show up in toy form!"

http://tomopop.com/sdcc-2010-medicom-s-daft-punk-figures-for-tron-legacy-13711.phtml

And there were rumors all over the radio stations in San Diego that day about Daft Punk playing a show. Couple that with the fact that it makes *no* sense to put up the club and then close it early Saturday night, and then couple it with all the Twitter buildup that never paid off...and something clearly didn't go down. Now, this all just could be a runaway rumor, but considering how that rumor started floating around weeks before SDCC, who knows what was really supposed to happen.
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"...if you drink much from a bottle marked 'poison', is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later."
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:56 am
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madopal
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Christien wrote:
Just wondering, has anybody given consideration to the possibility that the ARG might be over? I'm probably wrong, but look at the way the last few things went down...

We found the secret codes that Flynn left in the Space Paranoids game. We use them to get into his old sever where we learn he's been entering the digital world.
So, we go to his old arcade, find his workshop in the back,then get digitized into the actual server where Flynn has been for the last 20 years.

You know, that could be interpreted as a conclusion. We were looking for Flynn, and the game led us right to where he is. Cue the movie.

Again, I'm probably wrong here, but since there is only 3 months to the movie, maybe Disney figures the ARG has given the film as much publicity as it can and now wants to concentrate on some "real" promotion.
I don't really believe this, but it is a possibility, so I figured I would throw it out there for discussion.


This also leads back to my original speculation that this wasn't a traditional ARG from the start. I didn't register for the site when the first SDCC stuff happened in 2009 because it had the feel of an event-based thing, not an ARG. It wasn't until the bits showed up that it got more ARG-y. Still, the pacing has been different, the events have (for the most part) been restricted to shows...it just feels more marketing and less game than any others I've been around.

I don't think they're done, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a lag until November or so, then there was a flurry of quick things leading us to the première, and that was it.
_________________
"...if you drink much from a bottle marked 'poison', is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later."
- Lewis Carroll

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:02 am
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: [TRAILHEAD?] Tron
[META] Re: ARG?
madopal wrote:
this wasn't a traditional ARG from the start.

This.

We've had clever online puzzle trails and fun video games. We've had multiple live events, all over the country and across the globe. We've had cameo appearances from actual members of the film cast, both recorded and in person. We've had custom-built replicas of multiple film locations. We've certainly had plenty of high-quality swag. Our PMs have put together a very entertaining experience, no question. I believe that was all they ever intended to do.

I agree with you completely: this was never intended to be what most of us might think of as a traditional ARG -- that is, an experience that immerses the audience in the world of the film. Probably the most notable difference between "Flynn Lives" and most traditional ARGs is that the story here is far thinner. There is no overriding goal for us to accomplish (we already know that we can neither find nor rescue Kevin Flynn). Characters (e.g. Zach) haven't been particularly well-developed. Some of this may well be the result of tight constraints from Disney, sure, but such stumbling blocks aren't usually insurmountable.

Quite frankly, there hasn't been much of a plot. This really crystallized for me at the live event in San Francisco. I was explaining "Flynn Lives" to someone who hadn't been following it at all but had come to participate in the event. I explained that the event was a protest against Encom, and she promptly asked what nefarious deeds Encom was up to that had inspired the protest. Computer espionage? Poisoning the environment? Kidnapping people? Developing technology to take over the world? Anything evil at all? No, no, nothing like that. Just... well... not continuing to search for Kevin Flynn, who had disappeared without a trace a couple of decades ago. Umm.

Another major difference is that "Flynn Lives" has made little attempt to keep the metaphorical curtain in place -- what some folks might refer to as TINAG. (And no, I'm not just talking about legal stuff like having everyone sign waivers.) Take the most recent live event at San Diego Comic-Con. There is no conceivable reason whatsoever why an organization devoted to the memory of Kevin Flynn would (a) host a scavenger hunt in San Diego, (b) hand out trailers of TRON: Legacy as prizes, or (c) construct walk-through replicas of Kevin Flynn's private workshop and the End of Line Club. It's utterly illogical, and it simply doesn't fit into the world of the film.

I hope that I don't sound horribly ungrateful. I'm not. The PMs have clearly expended enormous time, effort, and resources on creating something fun, something entertaining, something worthy of public attention, and something enjoyable. And they have absolutely accomplished that; the fact that it's not a traditional ARG doesn't detract from this. Indeed, "Flynn Lives" actually became far more enjoyable for me personally once I realized that it wasn't really even trying to be an ARG, because then I was able to stop expecting it to compare to past ARGs and instead just enjoy it for what it was. By way of illustration: So what if there's no possible in-game explanation for what happened at SDCC? The identity disks, Flynn's Arcade, and the End of Line Club were still incredibly cool!

"Flynn Lives" is an experience designed to be entertaining, and to get folks talking about the movie. I believe that it has succeeded in these goals. But cool or not, "Flynn Lives" is not an ARG.



Something tells me that posts like this probably do not increase the odds of my ever receiving those postcards...
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:46 am
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MOVIELORD101
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Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 868

 		I COMPLETELY disagree with you. I don't think Flynn Lives is over just yet. I think 42 Entertainment is just waiting for something, most likely New York Comic-Con. Hopefully, we'll hear something just before that starts next month. Don't worry, guys. They know what they're doing.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:38 am
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madopal
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Location: Chicago, IL

 		Re: [TRAILHEAD?] Tron
[META] Re: ARG?
Shad0 wrote:
Something tells me that posts like this probably do not increase the odds of my ever receiving those postcards...


So, we've always been assuming that they're watching, because they have in other ARGs. Have we seen anything that's changed that could be the result of our feedback? Is this just SOP for 42?
_________________
"...if you drink much from a bottle marked 'poison', is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later."
- Lewis Carroll

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:53 am
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MOVIELORD101
Entrenched


Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 868

 		Re: [TRAILHEAD?] Tron
[META] Re: ARG?
madopal wrote:
Shad0 wrote:
Something tells me that posts like this probably do not increase the odds of my ever receiving those postcards...


So, we've always been assuming that they're watching, because they have in other ARGs. Have we seen anything that's changed that could be the result of our feedback? Is this just SOP for 42?
Oh, they're probably listening, alright. Their "Why So Serious" viral played a MASSIVE role in how successful The Dark Knight, so I think they're lurking around these boards, taking notes on our feedback here and are planning the next phase of Flynn Lives. Again, don't worry just yet guys. It's only a matter of time before the game resumes......

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:01 am
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madopal
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 		Re: [TRAILHEAD?] Tron
[META] Re: ARG?
MOVIELORD101 wrote:
Oh, they're probably listening, alright. Their "Why So Serious" viral played a MASSIVE role in how successful The Dark Knight, so I think they're lurking around these boards, taking notes on our feedback here and are planning the next phase of Flynn Lives. Again, don't worry just yet guys. It's only a matter of time before the game resumes......


I can see why you'd assume that, but a) Why So Serious didn't pause from when it started until when the movie released, b) Why So Serious wasn't (mostly) contained to shows, and c) Why So Serious followed the ARG script.

Do we have any EVIDENCE they're listening, other than they've listened on other games? Has anyone seen anything that has even possibly changed because of what we've done?

See, this is a business at the end of the day. We like to think the PM are doing this for the love, but what they do = how much they're paid. If they're not paid for events, we're not going to get them. We have *no* idea what the budget for this ARG is vs Why So Serious (or any other ARG). For all we know, they went overbudget on a few things, Disney scaled back on a few things, and bam...long pause.

And if they're idle on Flynn Lives, then perhaps they've all moved over to other projects for a while.
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"...if you drink much from a bottle marked 'poison', is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later."
- Lewis Carroll

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:20 am
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MOVIELORD101
Entrenched


Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 868

 		Re: [TRAILHEAD?] Tron
[META] Re: ARG?
madopal wrote:
MOVIELORD101 wrote:
Oh, they're probably listening, alright. Their "Why So Serious" viral played a MASSIVE role in how successful The Dark Knight, so I think they're lurking around these boards, taking notes on our feedback here and are planning the next phase of Flynn Lives. Again, don't worry just yet guys. It's only a matter of time before the game resumes......


I can see why you'd assume that, but a) Why So Serious didn't pause from when it started until when the movie released, b) Why So Serious wasn't (mostly) contained to shows, and c) Why So Serious followed the ARG script.

Do we have any EVIDENCE they're listening, other than they've listened on other games? Has anyone seen anything that has even possibly changed because of what we've done?

See, this is a business at the end of the day. We like to think the PM are doing this for the love, but what they do = how much they're paid. If they're not paid for events, we're not going to get them. We have *no* idea what the budget for this ARG is vs Why So Serious (or any other ARG). For all we know, they went overbudget on a few things, Disney scaled back on a few things, and bam...long pause.

And if they're idle on Flynn Lives, then perhaps they've all moved over to other projects for a while.


Look, just because it's on hiatus doesn't mean it's over just yet. Please be patient. That's how I'm dealing with it. If it makes you feel any better, I'm just about to email 42 Entertainment to see what the hold-up is. OK?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:28 am
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Rogi Ocnorb
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 		Re: [TRAILHEAD?] Tron
[META] Re: ARG?
madopal wrote:
...For all we know, they went overbudget on a few things, Disney scaled back on a few things, and bam...long pause...


It had to be said.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:48 am
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