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[TRAILHEAD?] Junko Junsui
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kolixela
Unfettered

Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 335
Location: Gilbert, AZ

 		Re: Hypocrisy, anyone care for some?
Hello Nachspiel;

It's always nice to see someone else taking a step into the ARG community. I think you have missed a few points in this situation.

One of the main rules of the unfiction site is that it is not to be used by PM's as in game content. It's supposed to be neutral ground where any players can talk out of game to speculate without in game interactions made from it. With the number of games with good guy/bad guy which is which scenerios or ones where players can chime in on one side over the other the need for an out of game comment site is needed. Yes we could create our own private forum off the main site (which was done and still complained about) but that does limit the number of players interacting with the game, a lot of people will read this site, even post anonymously but never access a private server set up out of game by a player.

Yes, a search can find you my name online but that is no excuse for using out of game knowledge to bully players. If the PM wants me to accept that his characters are real and not try to address him directly I expect him to provide ME the same courtesy.

As for the "attacks" against the PM. Comments were made, early in, about the accepted rules of the unforums being considered out of game, in response the PM directly mentioned the unforums as a site that we were not to post any information about them, at that point I tried to make my exit from the game; not willing to play a game where the most standard and accepted out of game resource for ARG players (that I am aware of) is banned from it's normal use. The response to this was for the PM to violate the IG aspect of his own game by attacking ME as a person, not speaking to my character (in a game where I had specifically stated I was no longer partaking in the adventure) Say what you will but that attack was unnecessary.

While you are welcome to your opinions about who should and shouldn't play these games I do not like seeing myself, or anyone else on these boards being referred to as "pedestrian and close-minded persons" having "limp ego" It just doesn't seem to be overly friendly or open minded in my opinion.

So I guess it's my turn to open myself to your attack back, fire away; just please respect my right to my own online privacy and keep my real name out of your reply.

Koli
Nachspiel wrote:
Hello All,

I have been lurking here since about the second day. I don't normally indulge in ARGs but started following this thread after JJ friended a bunch of my classmates in my architecture grad class.

At the risk of sounding personal, some of the regulars here come off as extremely pedantic and whiny. I don't know all the conventions of the ARG community but for people embracing what is supposedly an emergent medium, some of you people seem to have an awful lot of orthodoxy to your thinking. Considering the the relative age of immersing transmedia, it's like people insisting in 1910 that films never evolve beyond the narrative of Edison's Kinetoscope—in short ludicrous.

Furthermore, I see a huge amount of hypocrisy being exhibited by those most critical towards the PM in this forum. All this complaining by a few about OOG and IG; claims how you as players extend "courtesy" and "respect" by never looking behind the curtain.

Well, it seems to me that the people complaining here were actually the first to make things OOG and personal by reacting to a particular character's demeanor by attacking the PM. And very interesting how certain miscreants didn't start contributing to the conversation until there was something to show animosity about.

Comments like this hardly seem in the spirit of preserving the roleplay:

Nighthawk wrote:

Ah, splendid! I haven't had an invitation to join a cult in... *checks watch*... seventeen minutes. I was getting lonely. I mean... these goats are messy and they need a-killin'! Thank Xothor you came around!

I admit I'm new here, and am only trying to see if I can assist after hearing others' involvement. And what is the first thing I see when I come in? A list of DEMANDS?!?

Hate to say, sparky, but you don't tell me or anyone else around here what to do like that. We're trying to help, so get your head out of clouds, treat us like human beings offering a hand, and let's work towards a common goal.

"State my compliance?" How 'bout... NO. STATE YOUR COMPREHENSION?


So people don't play along with the artifice the PM is setting up and then you blame them when they call you out on it personally, thereby upping the ante to maintain the story? (Btw, for the two of you whom I checked, you names seem very easily obtainable by a single google search of your handles so you're not trying too hard to preserve separation between your Walter Mitty lives and your fantasy RP ones.) Laughing

I see this as the worst kind of critique: pedestrian and close-minded persons who themselves never make creative works lambasting an author at the beginning of theirs. And I can now see why a game author would avoid playing to the "nerdcore".

Many of you save a few genuinely curious and intellectual people like kosmopol need to retire from the field now and save the rest of us a whole lot of headache. In addition to your cranky behavior, the range of your cultural reference is a bit myopic for my taste. This thread was much more interesting a read before you came along with your passive aggressiveness and childlike confusion regarding one of the main purposes of fiction and art—i.e. to PROVOKE.

As an earlier poster commented, I don't see much potential for "alternate reality" in a model that has rigid boundaries and procedures. On the contrary predictability and fixed parameters are the domain of board games. Maybe that is what you belong playing?

Feel free to dig into me after this post as your limp egos will no doubt demand. You'll get no reaction in terms of a response. I just had to finally speak up because your childish whining at reached an unbearable crescendo. The idea that any creator NEEDS your limited few as an audience is just priceless.

There, I have said my piece. You may proceed to lynch me instead of Kosmopol. A mob is really what this group has devolved into.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:27 pm
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167

 		[quote="PaperbckWriter9"]Ok, I call bullcrap on the PM! I had to double check & it turns out I'm right. These particular quotes from Nachspiel's flame post:
Nachspiel wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:

Ah, splendid! I haven't had an invitation to join a cult in... *checks watch*... seventeen minutes. I was getting lonely. I mean... these goats are messy and they need a-killin'! Thank Xothor you came around!

I admit I'm new here, and am only trying to see if I can assist after hearing others' involvement. And what is the first thing I see when I come in? A list of DEMANDS?!? Hate to say, sparky, but you don't tell me or anyone else around here what to do like that. We're trying to help, so get your head out of clouds, treat us like human beings offering a hand, and let's work towards a common goal.

"State my compliance?" How 'bout... NO. STATE YOUR COMPREHENSION?

were written at our "other forum"... I'm pretty sure that no one posted the link for it, so that means Nachspiel is either one of us (who registered at the other forum) & is too coward to post with his/her true uF handle or it's clearly the PM breaking uF's TOS by posting here...


I'm not sure, if it was our PM. It isn't his style (I mean, PM) - usually he writes here only if the game is over, as meta text. There were some new faces on secret forum, which seems to be not so secret, and I don't really know these people, but it's OK. Since I'm kinda sorta admin, I won't write here their names, because I don't want to let the paranoia and mutual massacre growing here. Also, it was not only me, who submitted the links to the secret forum, and I don't blame the others for it - I cannot do everything Smile

Anyway, I suppose, Nachspiel wasn't PM, and I respect his opinion about the real life of alternate realities.

Actually I respect all your opinions, people. Not because of my indifference, but because you, people are damn interesting interlocutors (do I write this one right?).

Anyway

[/META]

Good news everybody.
I've got response of Seteney, who says, she respects both choices: to help or not to help.

Junko is not under arrest anymore. They have destroyed her Twitter and Facebook, but there are possibly another ways to help her.

Now, we should concentrate on search for the enemy - because to know the weakest point of an enemy, you should know your enemy.

Codename: Khozains

Show must actually go on Laughing
_________________
kosmopol Merzmensch: http://merzmensch.blogspot.com
Speaks German/Russian/Japanese
Leonard Nimoy calls me by nickname: http://tinyurl.com/gvuvydr

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:32 pm
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LordIllidan
Unfettered


Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 737

 		Why do I have the feeling that everything is about to go downhill fast, and in more ways than one?

Anyway, to throw in my two cents...

Quote:
This is exactly the question, which is running in my mind right now. First time I sent this picture to a character. But I can also recall, I told about this picture in another thread. I just cannot remind, whether I posted it there or not...


To my memory, no you didn't? I don't think anyone did.

Quote:
1) Somebody really wants to compromise his PM identity. Which could be not so fine for the next games, especially due of anonymity of the level behind a curtain.


That begs the question as to how this supposed new PM got his/her hands on that photo.

Quote:
At the risk of sounding personal, some of the regulars here come off as extremely pedantic and whiny. I don't know all the conventions of the ARG community but for people embracing what is supposedly an emergent medium, some of you people seem to have an awful lot of orthodoxy to your thinking. Considering the the relative age of immersing transmedia, it's like people insisting in 1910 that films never evolve beyond the narrative of Edison's Kinetoscope—in short ludicrous.

Furthermore, I see a huge amount of hypocrisy being exhibited by those most critical towards the PM in this forum. All this complaining by a few about OOG and IG; claims how you as players extend "courtesy" and "respect" by never looking behind the curtain.


I don't think so at all. ARGs are meant to be played by a bunch of people working together. That's half of what makes it fun: Solving puzzles others are unable to, throwing theories back and forth, and occasionally poking a bit of well-mannered fun at the characters where they can't see. The PM totally broke this by forcing all our interaction with his world to be through one character, then threatening to have her cease communications if we kept up our old act up, effectively ending the game.

If people wanna play your game, you should let them play it however they want. Alternate Reality Games are just that: Games. They're meant to have fun, and not to be SRS BUSINESS.

EDIT: Looks by Kos's new post, PM actually understands this, and is hopefully going to stop being silly. Very Happy

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:41 pm
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167

 		OK people! Khozains are everywhere!
And you actually have experienced it already.

Seteney had the best evidence for it

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/technology/internet/07twitter.html?_r=1

Wink

And I was yesterday like: "why this damn thing doesn't work?". Now I know the truth Very Happy

hmm...

Quote:
But Bill Woodcock, research director of the Packet Clearing House, a nonprofit technical organization that tracks Internet traffic, said the attack was an extension of the conflict between Russia and Georgia.

It was not clear who initiated the attack, Mr. Woodcock said, but it was likely that "one side put up propaganda, the other side figured this out and is attacking them." He said he found evidence that the attacks had originated from the Abkhazia region, a territory on the Black Sea disputed between Russia and Georgia.

_________________
kosmopol Merzmensch: http://merzmensch.blogspot.com
Speaks German/Russian/Japanese
Leonard Nimoy calls me by nickname: http://tinyurl.com/gvuvydr

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:45 pm
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Bruce
Unfettered


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 673
Location: Sector 001

 		[quote="kosmopol"]OK people! Khozains are everywhere!
And you actually have experienced it already.


Quote:


It was not clear who initiated the attack, Mr. Woodcock said,


ROFL when I read that quote.
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Playing: Junko Junsui

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:53 pm
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PaperbckWriter9
Veteran


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 131
Location: where it's bleepin' Golden

 		@kosmopol - You may be right about Nachspiel not being the PM, but for someone who states:
Nachspiel wrote:

...I don't normally indulge in ARGs...

&
Nachspiel wrote:

...I don't know all the conventions of the ARG community...


and then says some pretty harsh things like:
Nachspiel wrote:

...some of the regulars here come off as extremely pedantic and whiny...

&
Nachspiel wrote:

...Many of you save a few genuinely curious and intellectual people like kosmopol need to retire from the field now and save the rest of us a whole lot of headache. In addition to your cranky behavior, the range of your cultural reference is a bit myopic for my taste. This thread was much more interesting a read before you came along with your passive aggressiveness and childlike confusion...

& then blasts 3 guys who's names were used WITHOUT permission in a game that THEY were (or were no longer in Koli's case) actually playing, well it kinda just pisses me off. Either way it got my undies in a bunch that's all... [/rant over]
------------------------------
So, now all we have is Seteney to communicate w/ right? No more JJ on twitter or FB?
_________________
"I don't know karate, but I know crazy!" ~ The Payback

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:02 pm
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ironnikki
Unfettered


Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Iowa City, IA

 		Alright! I'm eager to put all of this in the past and continue on with this game. That is, assuming that Seteney behaves, and "random observers" (not sure that I believe that, after reading what paperback had to say Rolling Eyes ) aren't rolling through here and flinging wordy insults.

So, if Junko is no longer arrested, she should find another way to communicate with us. Whether that be through the private forum (unlikely, given Seteney's dislike of the idea) or through another medium, we have yet to see. So I guess we play the waiting game?

...I hate the waiting game... Sad
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An Adventurer Is Me!
Played: Intimation, Purity Towers, Vanessa Atalanta (sort of), TV III

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:35 pm
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PaperbckWriter9
Veteran


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 131
Location: where it's bleepin' Golden
kosmopol wrote:

Good news everybody.
I've got response of Seteney, who says, she respects both choices: to help or not to help.

Junko is not under arrest anymore. They have destroyed her Twitter and Facebook, but there are possibly another ways to help her.

That is good news. We DO want to help. Hopefully we'll get to have a chance on our terms...

Anyhoo, twitter is still fudging up for me on my mobile. If I'm remembering correctly, Seteney also had a twitter account (although I can't recall her actual user name). Has anyone had a chance to speak with her(DS) besides Kosmopol? With JJ's twitter & FB gone, there has to be some other way she'll get in touch with us, possibly without Seteney?

@kosmopol - If you don't mind me being nosey ( & please let me know if I am Wink, you've been a great "speaker" for us so far) how did Seteney orginally contact you for the link to our "double secret" forum? I ask because if it was by email, maybe you'd be allowed to share? If we could have a chance to speak to her outside of the other forum (which she seems to not care for anyway) and let her know individually that our inentions are good, maybe she would have a greater trust for us and allow us to speak with JJ again...
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:28 pm
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ironnikki
Unfettered


Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Iowa City, IA

 		Good thinking, paperback. I bet that if we took the time to individually introduce ourselves, she wouldn't be so hasty to write us off as spies. In fact, I don't think that I've had contact with either her or Junko at all. No wonder they're suspicious of who we are, haha.
_________________
An Adventurer Is Me!
Played: Intimation, Purity Towers, Vanessa Atalanta (sort of), TV III

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:41 pm
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth

 		...but maybe some of us are - or at least want to be - spies? Twisted Evil Razz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:31 pm
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Syncopal
Decorated


Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Posts: 199
Location: Look Behind You!

 		Nighthawk Said:

Quote:
...but maybe some of us are - or at least want to be - spies?


Kinda like the 'Dome' within the 'Dome'... LOL!!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:39 pm
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PaperbckWriter9
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Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 131
Location: where it's bleepin' Golden

 		Oh noes! I was wrong! Seteney doesn't have a twitter account D: I knew I saw her initials though (from JJ's twitter):
JunkoJensui wrote:

?Time and trouble will tame an advanced young woman" - DS; dedicated to @Canzonett 10:55 PM Aug 1st

Ok, now I feel back to square one on the whole communicado issue. Sad I'll try & leave a message for JJ on twitter & see if it gets through.
_________________
"I don't know karate, but I know crazy!" ~ The Payback

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:51 pm
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kosmopol
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 3167

 		@PaperbackWriter9

Actually I'm in connection with Seteney only through facebook - she added me as a friend, and now she cut all another channels away.

I wrote her that people are willing to help and need connection with her. Waiting for reply Smile

And don't mind to be nosey, we actually are everybody in this forum nosey! Laughing

I also asked her, whether she can tell us some informations about Khozains.
_________________
kosmopol Merzmensch: http://merzmensch.blogspot.com
Speaks German/Russian/Japanese
Leonard Nimoy calls me by nickname: http://tinyurl.com/gvuvydr

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:08 pm
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Syncopal
Decorated


Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Posts: 199
Location: Look Behind You!

 		ironnikki said:
Quote:
Alright! I'm eager to put all of this in the past and continue on with this game.


Here here! Plus, I'd hate to think I took the last week to learn Ancient Circassian for nothing! Smile

EDIT: O and hey... just throwing this out here... I noticed that there is a www.puritytowers.com funnel thing starting up in 2 days (You can see the trailhead in news and rumors) there has been alot of talk about purity and the pure in this so far... coincedence?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:17 pm
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Greginvan
Boot


Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Vancouver

 		Kosmopal, post Setanys messages to you please
HI Kosmopal,

Can you please post all of Setany's message to you in this forum.

Since she is no longer contacting us, we might as well hang out her dirty laundry with the Benefactors.

If JJ got arrested by the benefactors for setting up a FB page, then Setany will be truly screwed for trying to recruit a secret army to destroy them.

Also: Setany presumeably contacted you and you gave her the addy of the secret board --- what email address did she use? Lets run that domain down.

Also, I have JJ's email address that was posted on Facebook before the page went down. I've tried to contact her but nothing yet back.

Did anyone ever sort out what the reference to the stolen video was all about?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:08 pm
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