unforum

[AUZ505]

[META/Discussion] What the PMs do wrong

[dissentience]

From the other thread:

[Yurai]

[kolixela]

Neutrality went out the window when they started attacking players personally

[dissentience]

[Yurai]

Perfectly understandable. I was just going by claims made on this very forum.

[Nighthawk]

Oh I could write volumes on this topic, and probably will do so eventually on my blog, but I don't think he's done yet.

[PaperbckWriter9]

I thought this whole unForum=bad guys thing was over & it's apparently not. Plus, the fact that the PMs have now found a "knight in shining armor" in 4chan, scares the hell out of me. This now makes me officially out.

This was screwed up from the get go & I don't understand why this happened the way it did. A lot of us here were followed by JJ on FB & twitter and for a short time I thought we were actually doing well in communicating with her. We tried to help/befriend her and not only were we rebuffed, but made "the enemy", & then insulted/attacked. I didn't want to be "the enemy" and I still don't know why we are considered so... I can only assume that it's still because we post JJ's messages here (which I always thought was ok to do). This is not the first time (or the last, I'm afraid ) I've seen a PM try to make uF IG, but I really thought after the whole secret forum debacle, that this "mess" would be over. Unfortunately not. I don't understand why a PM would want to push away their player base like they have. I'm super bummed... I thought this would get good, but to me, this is now officially the worst arg I've been involved in.


In the beginning I compared the meta of "I'm Sorry" to this and now I feel bad for doing so because the 2 are not similar at all. "I'm Sorry" actually has a really great story and after the PM fudged, well he didn't do it again. I can respect that, not this.

To all of those who decide to see this to the end (if there's actually an end to begin with), good luck. You have a tolerance/patience that I'll never have.

@Nighthawk: is your blog the DLImedia one? If you wouldn't mind sharing please, I would like to read it. Thanks in advance.

[AUZ505]

Sorry, maybe I missed it, but when and where did the PM attack uF again after the "secret forum incident"?

[Nighthawk]

I don't recall if he used our name directly anymore.

They technically just admitted to bank fraud, so it's just as well...

[mamimi]

I have to wonder how I'm supposed to feel about a main character in the "game" that's so deeply unsympathetic, even given her apparent horrible circumstances. Jun-Jun reminds me of the old lady with filthy hair and bloody fingernails standing outside the grocery store barking about the end of the world, and conspiracies, and begging for change, and when you hand her a dollar she berates you for being a government lackey and the tool of an evil society, and then threatens to get her nephews to come to your house and teach you a lesson. I'm trying to figure out why I'm supposed to want to help her, when she's yelling at the top of her lungs and accusing everyone of being against her, instead of telling people HOW to help her. For all her talk, she's not being very motherly. Who knows, maybe she'll turn out to be but one player in a massive storyline full of others. Maybe she's crazy. Maybe she's not as "pure" as we're led to believe.

And that's just the IG problems. The total BS of dragging in real-life information and certain message boards notorious for... doing things... into the "game" and allying them is completely baffling to me. I'm supposed to want to play this game, not fear that I'm going to accidently slight the characters, or get too close to the truth (which is what these games are for, is it not?) and have to deal with very real OOG consequences. At best it screams of gross incompetence, unprofessionalism, and general ignorance of who they are rallying to help them. At worst, its malicious, spiteful, and dangerous. Honestly, if I hired a firm to promote my game/movie/website/whatever, and they started dabbling in borderline-illegal activities as they seem to have here, I'd not only fire them, but I'd make sure I made a big public stink over it so that others were aware of the severe mishandling of the campaign. It just seems like "campaign is supposed to last X months, and these people almost have it figured out already. I'll not take the blame for failing at making an ARG, I'll just make them sorry!" It's baffling. And scary.

That said, I feel ashamed for being so intrigued. I just want to know what's really going on. This all seems too "big" for a mere advertising campaign, but too insane to be any kind of real. I just want to know what it's all about so I can quit thinking about it. Or before I screw up, say the wrong thing, and have some incompetent advertiser affect my life OOG, just because I was playing some "game".

[dissentience]

Frequent contact with Patrick Marckesano has only resulted in him being incredibly rude to me, at one point telling me to "eat a dick." At no point was I rude or insulting when I contacted him (except for the last time when I told him I don't eat dicks and that he must have me confused with his mother).

This after a link being posted to 5/8 again telling "MOOT AND 4CHAN" to attack. This has directly resulted in attempted attacks on 5/8. That's going WAY too far, if you ask me.

Patrick told me that he's not the PM, that he's just an "art director," but would not tell me who to contact when I asked him. Overall, he was just ridiculously rude and uncooperative.

[Nighthawk]

OK, for those that are wondering what the hell has gone on, here's a timeline of events. I'm sure I missed a thing or two, but tried to make sure the focal points are there. If anyone has anything to add to this list, and can prove it (we have physical, documented support for everything on this list), let me know privately.

- The "trailhead" is posted on unFiction

- I admit I wasn't following it at this point much, but my understanding was that a request for a private forum was made (either through Twitter or Facebook; don't know which).

- A unFiction regular creates the "Sisters and Brothers" forum, on which the PMs can post freely.

- On said forums, PMs insist that we do not talk about game content on unFiction. In the same post, PMs release my name and the name of two others, labeling us "cowards" and "the enemy". It is not well received.

- I "retaliate" with an IN GAME response on the private forums. At this point, I was playing a personna to match their "in game" request.

- I am blocked from Junko's personal profile on Facebook.

- PM signs up as "Junko Junsui" on the 5/8 forums and begins to exchange words with the participants there. She is not well received. These exchanges include, among other things, (1) stating the entire population of 5/8 is "tainted by alcohol", and (2) posting the personal information and image of two prominent members of the forum without consent, mocking one of them and their personal photo from another website.

- PMs release the name of another player (one that frequents the 5/8 forums) publicly, direct posting it on 4chan, essentially asking that they deal with the situation.

- As a result of said attacks, and because of the PMs obscurity, a full investigation by myself and others begins in order to identify who the offending PM is. It is discovered that the PM is a Patrick Marckesano of Homeostatic.net, and this project has been in the planning stages for over two years.

- The "Alfa-Tsentr" page on Wikipedia is proven to be fraudulent and is removed by Wikipedia censors.

- We open communications via email with Patrick. Some of the initial emails appear "in game", with him stating that he's fearing for his life and that he was in danger. In my last of direct correspondence with him (on or about the 17th of August) he states that he was going to "disappear for a while" and "get away from all this."

- A new domain appears (junkojunsui.com), posted by one of the prominent members at 5/8, essentially outs the PMs and posts all META information on them and their project plans. It elaborates on the fact that this project is apparently to promote some sort of fashion industry product.

- PM suggests on an open Facebook thread that "enemy" sites, 5/8 and the above domain specifically, should be attacked in order to stop this disinformation.

- There is attempt to HACK the above domain using a brute force/dictionary attack through SSH. They make over 100 attempts in the matter of a few hours. This is all well documented and from a specific IP address. Note that this is in violation of Federal law.

- Despite saying that he was "disappearing for a while", the hack attempt and all in game emails are linked back to one IP address, which happens to be the same address the PM used in "in game" and "out of game" conversations with me and others. It is also the same IP address used to register Junko Junsui on the 5/8 forums.

- PM is banned from 5/8 for violating site terms of service (the official reason is that they were "advertising") and for threatening users there.

- Another domain appears (showpages.net), on which there is a Flash that direct connects to the back end feed hosted at iMediaSee. Upon analysis of the Flash, it essentially mirrors the functionality of the page behind the fake Google page.

- A 5/8 administrator posts a semi-comical animation on their forums. Note that the animation is, although having sexual references, not directly explicit and within the bounds of their own terms of service.

- PM re-registers on 5/8 with an assumed name (using the same IP address), which also violates 5/8 terms of service.

- PM posts an open request on Facebook, directly linking to the aforementioned 5/8 thread, asking 4chan to once again deal with the situation.

- Offending image is removed from 5/8, mainly out of fear of repercussions due to 4chan's involvement.

- PM proceeds to thank the members of 4chan, forming an alliance with them.

- PM states on another Facebook thread that the $38 T-shirts are meant to cover the cost of bandwidth expenses. In the same post, they openly admit to bank fraud by stating they had to "...steal from the Khozain account many more thousands."

- PM asks for a private chat room to be set up so he can talk to his "followers". They demand that they are given admin rights to control, and potentially censor, anyone who may visit. They furthermore do not want the chat information to be made public for "security reasons." If it posted on any other forums, those people will not be permitted in the chat.

...and that's where we stand.



Also of note are the following actions, which I have not confirmed:

- Terrorist threats being reported to Russian and American authorities.

- The domain "shestirs.com" being reported to GoDaddy for fraudulent WHOIS information. NOTE: If that is the case and GoDaddy confirms it, the domain will be lost, without recourse or appeal, for ONE FULL YEAR.

- The video feeds, because of their nude content, being reported to their content provider for (1) violations of Terms of Use, and (2) not complying with U.S.C. 2257 regulations.

[kolixela]

Wow.. looks like everyone has been all over making the PM realise that their actions are not to be tolerated.

From here about the only thing I can see is:

Report the fake myspace profiles for being fake characters, most likely created without permission of the site

Report the fake page for Junko Junsui to facebook for using a false name
Report the junsui fan page for advocating attacks against a third party.

I would request that NONE of the above be done by anyone unless the PM releases another OOG player attack. If they do, by all means retaliate as needed.

[Pixiestix]

I'm going to have to disagree with a LOT of actions being taken, or even being thought about being taken.

This message isn't for any one person.... This is for the lot of you. As one player, with years of experience, to another....

As for retaliating - 2 wrongs never make a right. Reporting fake accounts on facebook and myspace will only make it harder for ACTUAL PM teams to use those services in the future {although I never agree with using facebook in the first place, that's not really my point here}.

Frankly, the PM team has to learn from their mistakes. They are, from my limited understanding, running an advertising campaign - that means that
A} they need an audience, and
B} they have a sponsor.

These two facts alone are REALLY all you need.

STOP PLAYING if you don't agree with a PM team's actions. Frankly, I find this whole thing incredibly tacky. Figure out who the sponsor is and question {politely, respectfully, and succinctly} how they expect to SELL things using such tactics as they have shown. Unless their target audience is 100% 4chan {which I also understand feeds on this type of situation}, I don't see cyber harassment a valid form of salesmanship.

And now a question for all of you - Why?

Why, even after it was made obvious the PM team REALLY doesn't like unfiction, and you were given another space to play, did you continue to play here further antagonizing the PM team? Knowing how this website works {that it IS out of game and it IS a meta site}, did you continue to argue that the PM team's request that there be no meta was reasonable on a website they have no control over - so much so to allow yourselves the chance to become targets of both the PM team AND members of 4chan just by playing? This isn't me asking you to leave, by no means do I think you should at this point – I'm just confused.

Also, for the record, I am tired of hearing "I invested too much time to drop out now" – it isn't really valid anymore. You can follow a game without playing it {thereby cutting the player base that the PM team NEEDS}. Also, it reminds me of lines in bad horror movies, right before the last victim gets killed.