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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #22
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onetruepurple
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:59 am
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ReverendJ
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Re: THEORY ON #22
I HAD A REALIZATIOM AND I HAVE TO PUT IT HERE BEFORE I FORGET

veronica2199 wrote:
...cameras are TO's "eyes."...
I don't think I've heard that one before...what is the theory based on?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:05 am
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veronica2199
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Re: THEORY ON #22
I HAD A REALIZATIOM AND I HAVE TO PUT IT HERE BEFORE I FORGET

ReverendJ wrote:
veronica2199 wrote:
...cameras are TO's "eyes."...
I don't think I've heard that one before...what is the theory based on?

it's because alex appears to live a normal life 2006-2009, hell he even gets a girlfriend. as soon as amy turns on the camera that had seen TO before, it just shows up again.
also, it shows up a lot of the time when someone brings a camera. (maintencance tunnel, alex's old house, rosswood park, ect) Edit: also i just realized, that's probably how TO was suddenly alerted to alex's presence in #1.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:54 am
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Ascalondion
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Re: THEORY ON #22
I HAD A REALIZATIOM AND I HAVE TO PUT IT HERE BEFORE I FORGET

ReverendJ wrote:
veronica2199 wrote:
...cameras are TO's "eyes."...
I don't think I've heard that one before...what is the theory based on?

It appears sometimes in the wiki and normally comes up when the relation between eyes in general, their focus in TTA videos and the nature of TO are discussed – especially when both his fixation with cameras and his lack of face are tried to be explained. I think it was also used to explain the distortion when TO is on camera, because then he sees himself which not only causes some crazy stuff to happen to the camera, but also make him mad, so that he gets angry at the camera wielder and tries to take him out.

I think it has some credit it, but is rough around the edges. But then again, which current theory isn't?

To the Alex lying thing: I don't dig that Alex is lying to TO, but I'm intrigued by the thought that Alex is lying to himself. However, as I was typing this out, I realized it doesn't fit with a lot of Alex's behaviour. So I spare you just another whacky theory by not posting it. However, I'd like to mention that we have very little information into Alex motives. Yes, throughout season 2 and 3 we gained a rather lot of knowledge on WHAT Alex did. But we don't know so much WHY he was doing a lot of things. It feels like we only know that Alex wanted to shoot Jay (and Jessica) because he "shared the tapes with the world" (#52), and that his overall goal is to find Amy (if that is true).

@veronica2199
That's quite a lot of capslock in the title and subject … … Wink

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:27 am
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veronica2199
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Re: THEORY ON #22
I HAD A REALIZATIOM AND I HAVE TO PUT IT HERE BEFORE I FORGET

Ascalondion wrote:
@veronica2199
That's quite a lot of capslock in the title and subject … … Wink

I was really excited at the time because it seemed like a huge realization to me. But i don't think anyone else really cares. I just had to put out a thing before I forgot.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:46 am
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ReverendJ
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Re: THEORY ON #22
I HAD A REALIZATIOM AND I HAVE TO PUT IT HERE BEFORE I FORGET

veronica2199 wrote:
it's because alex appears to live a normal life 2006-2009, hell he even gets a girlfriend. as soon as amy turns on the camera that had seen TO before, it just shows up again.
also, it shows up a lot of the time when someone brings a camera. (maintencance tunnel, alex's old house, rosswood park, ect) Edit: also i just realized, that's probably how TO was suddenly alerted to alex's presence in #1.
And so Tim grew up on camera?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:46 am
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veronica2199
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Re: THEORY ON #22
I HAD A REALIZATIOM AND I HAVE TO PUT IT HERE BEFORE I FORGET

ReverendJ wrote:
veronica2199 wrote:
it's because alex appears to live a normal life 2006-2009, hell he even gets a girlfriend. as soon as amy turns on the camera that had seen TO before, it just shows up again.
also, it shows up a lot of the time when someone brings a camera. (maintencance tunnel, alex's old house, rosswood park, ect) Edit: also i just realized, that's probably how TO was suddenly alerted to alex's presence in #1.
And so Tim grew up on camera?

no. i don't know. probably not. he somehow disturbed TO when he was young so it stalked him. maybe it lost track of tim and then when they began filming marble hornets it found him again, but also found alex.
i don't know.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:58 am
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JAL13
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I won't be an ass like most and flat out bash this because I don't like it, but although the theory is a bit out there it is very creative. I think it was your word choice that kind of made it less credible and less favorable toward some.

If it were my word choice I would have said the camera itself was cursed and that TO was somehow connected the camera. Meaning: Every time someone uses the cursed camera TO can potentially find them. A cursed camera to me makes a hell of a lot more sense than the camera being his eyes (although symbolically with TO having no face, using technology for his eyes, and causing distortion is very cool and does have significant part to the story).

Also, it would shed light on how we were able to see a third person view of Tim and Hoody fighting in Entry #83.

Whether I like this theory or not is not up to me, but hey, if no one proves it wrong then I guess it COULD be right in some way shape or form. I have my own theories, but I keep them to myself because of a certain few people who refute without evidence.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:09 pm
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evanx275h
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WALL OF TEXT INCOMING LOOK OUT

Other than the fact that this should have probably been placed in the Entry #22 thread, I actually want to see if I can fully understand the theory you have - because I actually not only like it, I think it can work.

So the Operator using cameras as his "eyes" makes a lot of sense, honestly. The biggest moments that seem to happen regarding the Operator happen on-camera, as the characters only seem to encounter him when they are recording. I can't fully prove this, but then again, can you think of a time that Jay or anyone has mentioned seeing the Operator off-camera? I do recall Entry #2, so that can be a hole in that portion of the theory, but I digress.

Now, assuming this is true, if the camera is the Operator's way of seeing into the world, that would explain how he is able to teleport with ease and knows his lay of the land so well; he can insert himself into wherever he can see, follow anyone, and pursue anyone as long as they're recording. And, the more people record, the more "sets of eyes" he has to control. That would be beautiful IRONY too, because of Jay and Alex's constant need to film all the time - because they want to document Oppy - when, meanwhile, it's the recording itself that attracts him.

The best example of this would be Entry #26; Alex has moved on with life and seems to be doing well with Amy. Then Amy snaps on a camera and, poof, Oppy's back! It could be because the Operator actually lost him, after he moved away, and only rediscovered him after Amy decided to turn it back on. That would also explain how, at the beginning of Entry #26, Jay was baffled that someone knew where he was the whole time - because the dude's been documenting his entire trip at the beginning of that entry! Lastly, Tim's line from Entry #59, "...and then YOU show up, pointing a camera in my face...!", while not being any form of proof, fits beautifully with the irony of that theory; Tim was getting better until Jay stuck a camera up to him and started up his hallucinations and memory revisits, etc.

So, given all that here-say:

In Entry #22, when Alex goes on his rambling bullshit speech about how people are "gone" when they aren't, and if the Operator does use the cameras to watch people, maybe that would be his way of setting the stage for his escape. The Operator believes that Alex has done his work, and then after he burns the tapes he would forfeit the camera and escape the Operator, once he stops filming for good. Then, after the Amy mishap in 26, the Operator does to Alex what he did to Jay in Entry #82, and now he's a puppet.

Honestly, I really like the theory. It holds a lot of water, in my opinion. I wouldn't even say it's "out there", especially if there's still strong discussion about whether Hoody is Sarah.

EDIT:
I found a bunch of "honorable mentions" or points that work well with the theory. I just thought I'd share them:

1: The Operator allegedly starts following Alex and some members of the crew (maybe) during the shoot of Marble Hornets. Obviously them using cameras to shoot the film makes it seem plausible that, their commencing in recording has caught his attention.
2: Alex left the camera sitting on the ground in Entry #49, and possibly left it running, prolonged, in #51 ("Just...bear with me."). Both times it could be argued that, Alex prolonged picking up the camera as a way of showing the Operator "Hey, he's here. Take him." with both Bruce and Brian.
3: In Entry #54, the Operator only appeared when the lights were on, as the camera wasn't picking up anything. He then attacked (or whatever he did at the end) when the flashlight was turned on.
4: In Entry #57, Tim was doing his best to stay quiet, but the camera was recording his face. That would, in turn, tell the Operator where he was, so he was able to catch him.
5: Jay in the tunnels in Entry #60. I doubt the Operator goes crawling around those tunnels on patrol every day, so it would make sense that he knew where Jay was. And, in that case, how could he know? Well, him having a camera down there makes the most sense in relation to the theory.
6: This one, I like: The Operator moves closer and closer whenever the camera is ON HIM in Entry #64, but remains still once it's looking at him. It's almost like, he's clumsily using the camera to plan each step. Obviously that could just be brushed off as n editing trick, but I just want to see how much I can make it fit with the theory.
7: The Operator saved Alex from Hoody in Entry #67. Hoody had a camera. There you have it.
8: Jay trapped himself in the room when Alex shot him in Entry #80. Oppy pops in like, "Oh, so that's where you were!" and takes him.

I know a lot of my specifics up there are a little bit much - like I'm forcing it to work - but the whole point of me naming them is to give some substance to something that is otherwise overlooked; we see the Operator as this all-knowing, completely capable being that can just teleport and bend time at will and whatever. This theory suggests that, unlike these common brush-offs, he might actually need help to do what he does. He "teleports" maybe because the cameras help him see his destination. He is able to find people easily maybe because he can see where they are as they record.

I dunno, I just like the theory.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:18 pm
Last edited by evanx275h on Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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lonsumtravlr
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evanx275h wrote:
In Entry #22, when Alex goes on his rambling bullshit speech about how people are "gone" when they aren't, and if the Operator does use the cameras to watch people, maybe that would be his way of setting the stage for his escape. The Operator believes that Alex has done his work, and then after he burns the tapes he would forfeit the camera and escape the Operator, once he stops filming for good. Then, after the Amy mishap in 26, the Operator does to Alex what he did to Jay in Entry #82, and now he's a puppet.


A point and a question:

1. We don't really know what The Operator actually "did" to Jay in Entry #82 (he could have merely wiped his memory and left him disoriented--there's still far too much we actually don't know to suspect TO of having doen too much--even that soundless running at the end of the entry before Tim's caption tiles appear is strange and suspect).

2. How do you explain the shadow hand that seems to enter Alex's head and control or at least guide him (through hypnosis?) in his testament? TO doesn't have hands--he has tentacle-like appendages, and his suit seems as if it could be his skin (see Entry #14 again).

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Sort of off-topic yet sort of on topic: I was wondering whether that might be TTA there. We really don't know. I don't recall (maybe I'm wrong) seeing TO in Entry #22 (which is one of the spookiest and best of the series, by the way), but we do know from "Exit" that TTA was keeping tabs even in 2006--though he was following Jay for some reason. Could make the possibility that TTA was Seth, the cameraman with access to the tapes and the requisite tech knowledge to make videos, at least a bit less tenuous. If so, that with the fact that this tape was left in the Red Tower most likely by TTA lends some credence to Tim's statement in Entry #80 that TTA "set this up," though I admit there's some conjecture here.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:49 pm
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evanx275h
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lonsumtravlr wrote:
1. We don't really know what The Operator actually "did" to Jay in Entry #82 (he could have merely wiped his memory and left him disoriented--there's still far too much we actually don't know to suspect TO of having doen too much--even that soundless running at the end of the entry before Tim's caption tiles appear is strange and suspect).


Again, this is all based on what I believe happened in Entries, not based on the factual stuff. I'm not saying this is all the case, I'm just saying it's what I believe happened, and as a result, will happen.

What I saw was: Jay went into the woods with good intentions toward Tim in #83, was ambushed by the Operator, and then suddenly wanted Tim dead. That feels, to me, a lot like the sudden sanity-switch between Season 1 Alex and Season 2 Alex. That's all I was alluding to.


lonsumtravlr wrote:
2. How do you explain the shadow hand that seems to enter Alex's head and control or at least guide him (through hypnosis?) in his testament? TO doesn't have hands--he has tentacle-like appendages, and his suit seems as if it could be his skin (see Entry #14 again).


Well, OOG,

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Troy and the guys said it was a happy accident that "looked cool", so they did it for the hell of it.


But IG I always assumed that was the Operator's shadow. Arms looked a little too short and it was sort of an awkward hand motion for him, but hey, this was season 1. Everything else you've said about the Operator are sort of here-say-ish, because the thing about his skin and appendages aren't really confirmed, but merely based on what we see and relate to the Slenderman Mythos. And the Operator isn't the Slenderman, he's just based on him.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:01 pm
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BlankSlate
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I like this theory, Alex does seemed pretty bothered in 26 when Amy starts recording and tells her to stop. The camera or tapes may very well be connected to the Operator showing up. Maybe during the filming of Marble Hornets, Alex accidentally caught whatever was plaguing Tim as a child on camera, and it was able to use that to spread to others and gain power.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:05 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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evanx275h wrote:
What I saw was: Jay went into the woods with good intentions toward Tim in #83, was ambushed by the Operator, and then suddenly wanted Tim dead. That feels, to me, a lot like the sudden sanity-switch between Season 1 Alex and Season 2 Alex. That's all I was alluding to.


Well, yes, but to be fair, he seemed conflicted and wanting to act upon a gut feeling that led him t a reality that was even more terrifying than he'd thought, even after all he'd been through for at least close to three years at that time. What he saw on the footage shown in Entry #82 confirmed that Tim was likely not working against him but may have been protecting him. Also, not so sure there really was such a "sudden" switch in Alex's personality--it seems far more complex even leading up to the events of Entry #52.
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I almost wouldn't be surprised if Alex thought he was still protecting or avenging someone or trying to settle everything by "punishing" a "guilty" Jay in Entry #80 (though, frankly, I think he's pretty much gone completely dark by then).


evanx275h wrote:
Well... IG I always assumed that was the Operator's shadow. Arms looked a little too short and it was sort of an awkward hand motion for him, but hey, this was season 1. Everything else you've said about the Operator are sort of here-say-ish, because the thing about his skin and appendages aren't really confirmed, but merely based on what we see and relate to the Slenderman Mythos. And the Operator isn't the Slenderman, he's just based on him.


Again, granted (both your own point and the statement about MH being more a series inspired by and even riffing off the Slenderman Mythos rather than being actually about Slenderman). And for the longest time I assumed that this was Oppy's shadow (and actually, that's largely what I still think). It's been several months (because, again, I didn't really pay much attention to the series until about five or so months ago, when I started repeat binge watching and hyper-analyzing) of thinking about this, but there are two points that keep coming up.

1. MH (I think most would agree) has become more a paranormal detective series/ARE than a horror series/ARE. Detective series are pretty metafictional and self-referential. They're aware of the fact that audience is not only working through the clues to create meaning and reveal the truth of an event; the audience is also working through the clues on their own. (This is why I think the ARE label applies to an extent.) And,

2. A conceit from the beginning has been unreliable narrators, particularly those with the skills needed to manipulate the primary evidence: video tapes and digital video.

What do I make out of this? I can't shake the feeling--and this doubtless has to do with the fact that there's been an active antagonist who manipulates video and audio working throughout the series much in the same way that TO manipulates people's memories and emotions (I don't think he's just a sponge--he's a parasite, and one who really knows how to poison the host)--that there's someone else (revealed to us!) at work with an agenda. But as we go along with the available evidence, making up our theories as we take it for granted (to various stages), we may be overlooking something much more nefarious at work. We dont' really know what TTA wants ("THE ARK," sure, but we still don't know what the hell that is) or what his role has been from the beginning. He seems to be ambivalent toward The Operator. He seemed largely to be helping Jay, but not without mocking. He seemed to hate Alex, but that's not fully clear. And his attitude toward Tim is about as complex as is that toward TO.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:26 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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I'm not sure I quite articulated what I'd wanted to say about detective stories, etc. I think that the show's much more complex than it's given credit for being, and that the complexity gets overshadowed by an audience (which includes me) that tries to put the pieces together in a way that it deems fits. It fucks around with our expectations and the preconceptions we form at particular stages of the series's progress by tweaking our theories.

To counter the objection that may be raised that this might be giving Trosephim too much credit, well, yeah, what of that? They may have originally intended only one season and then developed certain aspects of the story in progress, and they may also write the dialogue and flesh out the scripts on the fly at times, but that doesn't mean they don't have a clear enough basic arc in mind.

I'm not meaning to pick a quarrel or to brush aside the original poster's theory. I don't buy it, but I don't think it's invalid.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:35 pm
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evanx275h
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I feel the need to clarify again that I'm just trying to make all this work with the theory, because up until now, I never considered it. It doesn't necessarily mean I believe it all, but I'm just using what I see and what's happened to relate it to the theory itself. Ya know - to show how it could potentially "work".
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:44 pm
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