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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Flynn Lives
Flynn Lives Member Badges
Moderators: enaxor, Euchre, spaceboy, thebruce
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VanGoghX
Unfettered


Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 386
Location: SoCal

 		If I could get one to work and actually get the badge I might feel a little dirty afterwords...

Naaaaahhhh!

It's kinda like altering the alternate reality! Neo would approve. Mr. Green

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:05 am
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SoCalSteve
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 1144
Location: Costa Mesa, California
EDGECRUSHER wrote:
I'm a little confused, doesn't that sorta cheapen the whole thing what you guys are doing?
Some are out for the gear, some the adventure, and some just want the badges. if you gave away your experience when you gave out your code it'd be different.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:19 am
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

 		Another way of looking at this particular situation...
If you got gridlock credit for entering any ONE code on the site, why did the wallets have several cards?
Obviously, so the person who could make it to the drop would be able to share the cards and experience with their friends.

Thank you for sharing, friends.

I wouldn't buy any IG swag from another player, but if the item is meant to be shared. I'm down.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:28 am
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EuchreModerator
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 3342

 		I'd love to have gotten a code from the Gridlock Rendezvous event, but no such luck. In the case of Portland, they did work on sharing those around (I know at least 2 people got to enter the Portland codes). There were still only 3 codes each location at most if I recall. I feel like I should have earned some sort of recognition for turning out for that event, but if I entered a code that I didn't arrive in time to grab myself, I don't think I've earned it.

Basically, if you didn't even set foot at one of the drops that day, I don't think you deserve to be getting the badge. JMO
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Any sufficiently twisted reality is indistinguishable from fiction.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:03 am
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ShadowDragon1
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 121

 		If anyone has a un-used code from the Zero hour Gridlock event, please message me as I would like the Gridlock virtual badge.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:13 am
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confusion
Decorated


Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 220
Euchre wrote:
I'd love to have gotten a code from the Gridlock Rendezvous event, but no such luck. In the case of Portland, they did work on sharing those around (I know at least 2 people got to enter the Portland codes). There were still only 3 codes each location at most if I recall. I feel like I should have earned some sort of recognition for turning out for that event, but if I entered a code that I didn't arrive in time to grab myself, I don't think I've earned it.

Basically, if you didn't even set foot at one of the drops that day, I don't think you deserve to be getting the badge. JMO


As the person that revealed that the existing codes could be used to unlock the "Gridlock" badge, one might assume I'd disagree with you, but I honestly don't know.

When I used the codes right after the IMAX event, I didnt use them with the intention of getting the badge. Candidly, I had absolutely no idea what would happen. I just wanted to see what it revealed. I didn't even realize I got the badge until a few days later.

From a visual standpoint, it's easy to spot the folks that weren't at the dropsite. The Gridlock badge will be out of chronological order. It's supposed to appear after the Joining the Movement badge, those that are using the codes now will have the badge appear after the Identify Yourself badge.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:53 am
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EDGECRUSHER
Decorated


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 207
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

 		So long as my gridlock badge doesn't dissapear, by all means try my codes then :]

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:38 am
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thebruceModerator
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Quote:
I'm a little confused, doesn't that sorta cheapen the whole thing what you guys are doing?

Let me vehemently echo the sentiment: Nope.

Rogi Ocnorb wrote:
Another way of looking at this particular situation...
If you got gridlock credit for entering any ONE code on the site, why did the wallets have several cards?
Obviously, so the person who could make it to the drop would be able to share the cards and experience with their friends.

I have absolutely no problem with this, since I was standing right freaking above the drop point and I practically ran around the block looking for it, only to miss it by 30 seconds. So yeah, I'll gladly enter a code (none of which were shared before entry from Toronto) to nab a badge for my profile Smile

Quote:
I wouldn't buy any IG swag from another player, but if the item is meant to be shared. I'm down.

Ditto.

Though, I mean, if the person who has the swag doesn't really want it and it's a decent price (ideally shipping costs), better in the hands of someone who would want it and take care of it. I might be convinced. But yeah, swag for the sake of swag definitely does not have the same inherent value as swag 'legitimately' received while playing. =)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:55 am
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MissingTeddyHanssen
Veteran


Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 132
Location: Philippines

 		Curse the location thingy of that badge. It just makes me regret living in the Philippine Islands.. argh. :/ I just want that badge badly.

Euchre wrote:

From a visual standpoint, it's easy to spot the folks that weren't at the dropsite. The Gridlock badge will be out of chronological order. It's supposed to appear after the Joining the Movement badge, those that are using the codes now will have the badge appear after the Identify Yourself badge.


Good point there. I think I just have to accept the truth here though.. :/

..
...

..except that anyone out there with a good heart that will share their codes with us. :p

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:53 am
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Methusalen
Veteran


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 142
Location: Wisconsin
thebruce wrote:

Though, I mean, if the person who has the swag doesn't really want it and it's a decent price (ideally shipping costs), better in the hands of someone who would want it and take care of it. I might be convinced. But yeah, swag for the sake of swag definitely does not have the same inherent value as swag 'legitimately' received while playing. =)


-The reason I thought you would appreciate that Transformers poster signed by Peter Cullen. (That and the fact your wiki was a *huge* help to me during that particular ARG!)

I like ARGs, but can't say that I'm very active in them... I came into this game a little late (after the Arcade Aid Challenge game made the rounds on the internet), so I missed out on the chance at getting my hands on any of the earlier swag (that wallet looked sweet!). However, I can't see that I would be willing to pay for something that I missed out on. However, if I had a piece of swag that I didn't want; I would probably see if there was anyone had any interest in that swag (Terminator armband, I'm looking at you)... However, I personally wouldn't charge much more than shipping for the item (maybe enough to cover my expenses incurred that day to *get* said swag)?

I'm not saying that it's wrong or anything, just not my cup of tea. I'd rather earn something than buy it...

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:18 pm
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EDGECRUSHER
Decorated


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 207
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

 		I'm getting a odd vibe from you guys, and I'm having difficulty explaining what it is. It's probably just something to do with different motivations is what I'm trying to attribute it to. Just the same, thebruce, you don't have to vehemently express yourself-some of you are much more passionate about not just these types of games but perhaps, Tron.
Just don't let emotions overrule your common sense is what I'm asking :]

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:28 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

 		*Double-checks thebruce's join date, post count and number of wikis created over the years*
Okay, it's safe to chuckle just a little.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:53 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: Flynn Lives Member Badges
Re: cheapening?
Euchre wrote:
Basically, if you didn't even set foot at one of the drops that day, I don't think you deserve to be getting the badge.

If that's your criteria, I qualify. I arrived at the North Hollywood drop site within 10-15 minutes of the revelation of the location. I saw a couple of people filling out paperwork, and a few more looking disappointed. The fellow in the "FLYNN LIVES" shirt dismissed us with something like, "It already happened. You're not getting a dramatic reenactment."

WARNING -- GENERAL [META] YAMMERING: It seems to me that there are two ways to approach ARG design: collaborative and competitive. One of the things that makes ARGs so special and powerful is the inclusion of the audience as part of the story. The decision the PMs must make is whether they want that experience to be inclusive or exclusive -- that is, whether to allow as many players as possible to share that special feeling, or try to make it even more special by limiting those who will be lucky enough to experience it.

Personally, I have a vast preference for the collaborative model, for a number of reasons. First, as I mentioned above, becoming a meaningful part of the story is an experience like no other, whether it be by attending a live event or getting an in-game phone call or exchanging emails with a beloved character or any of the other gazillion ways that creative PMs can immerse their audience. It only makes sense to me to try to give that experience to as many audience members as possible. (It also makes sense from the standpoint of viral marketing: don't you want as many participants as you can to have the best possible experience, so they'll share it with others and spread the word like, well, a virus?)

Second, I think that one of the most awe-inspiring facets of any ARG is the amazing collaborative strength of the community. (See my signature for my favorite example of this.) I prefer ARGs that encourage and reward this amazing collaboration. ARGs that deliberately divide the community or reward only part of it will reduce the community's capability, severely discourage collaboration, and minimize the likelihood of those rare and wonderful lightning strikes.

Third, I believe that participation in an ARG should be a positive and pleasant experience. Yes, having a special event that only a few players can experience certainly makes those players feel wonderful, and may even encourage players to make more of an effort to try to participate. But it leaves the majority of players -- those try to participate in the special experience but fail -- with the unpleasant taste of disappointment in their mouths. If players encounter disappointment often enough, they'll stop playing. And that doesn't help anyone.

The "Stop the International" ARG highlights the two contrasting approaches. The first half had a series of live events in various locations. Anyone who showed up got to participate -- I participated in the one in Los Angeles, and got to spend some time running through a most enjoyable puzzle trail with a few other players. I had fun; the entire community got the benefits of our successful completion of the tasks; and no one was disappointed.

The second half also had a series of live events in various locations. These "events" consisted of a stack of money, real money, just waiting around for someone to claim it. Once this became known -- it was posted on an in-game website, in fact -- lots of people started scrambling for the drops, to the extent that some were claimed within 60 seconds or less (giving rise to accusations of leaks, but I digress). There was no experience. There was no collaboration. There was no reward for anyone but the lucky person who won the race. Everyone else experienced only disappointment.

I'm sure the client was happy to hear that a lot of people around the country were participating (competing?) in these events. Honestly, though, it felt like the PMs were literally trying to bribe players to participate in the ARG. I don't think I complained much at the time -- afraid it would sound too much like sour grapes because I didn't get one of the chunks of money -- but I consider it a negative experience, and it's not one I wanted to see repeated in a future ARG.

The TRON drops felt more like the latter than the former. Contrast that to, say, the ArcadeAid puzzle. The community solved it together. Those who cracked a particular video game first could get credit (and admiration) by posting it here for the rest of us. Everyone who solved the puzzle is getting the same reward (at least in theory *grumble*grumble*grumble*). Now imagine what would have happened if the reward were available only for those who solved it first. Would anyone have posted their thoughts? Not likely. Would it have been solved as quickly? No way. Would there be a lot more frustrated and unhappy players? You bet.

All of this is, of course, just a reflection of my personal preferences and biases. YMMV, as they say.

[/META] YAMMERING
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:22 pm
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madopal
Unfettered


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Chicago, IL
thebruce wrote:
I have absolutely no problem with this, since I was standing right freaking above the drop point and I practically ran around the block looking for it, only to miss it by 30 seconds. So yeah, I'll gladly enter a code (none of which were shared before entry from Toronto) to nab a badge for my profile Smile


Confession time on this.

So, I had started asking early on for photos of the codes to do some analysis. For giggles, after I got one, I entered it on the ZeroHour page just to see what happened.

And I got a badge. This was like the day after Zero Hour, maybe even that evening.

Now, I'm a programmer. I actually make games. And my first thought was that it was a bug. It looked like that they had made it so the account # was used, but they forgot that the achievement was triggered. In a game like this I could have seen that easily happening. You rush to get the site out, you make sure the code entry happens, you check it again with an account that already has the achievement...and you don't see that it can trigger the achievement again on a different account. Poop happens under deadline.

But I was annoyed that I didn't hear about the puzzle until an hour after the Chicago location went live. And I figured that if it WAS a bug, that if everyone rushed in, they'd see the extra hundreds of entries, fix the bug, and remove the achievements for those who weren't there.

Now, since they're logging achievements, it's possible that something could happen at the end of the game if you have all the achievements. I don't know how probable, but it's possible.

I shared my discovery with someone who had gotten the achievement by getting a drop, and I mentioned that I wouldn't say anything. He understood. Besides, those people have wallets, tokens, clippings, phones, etc.

Anyway, this is why I didn't say anything. Now, it's possible that my fear will still come to pass, and all of us who entered the code will have the achievement removed. It's also possible that the programmers had time to design this, and they allowed multiple entries to get the achievement for each code. 56 total codes * 3 or 4 entries means quite a few people can "participate" without actually getting the wallet. Seems like a good way to share.

Either way, that was my rationale for not posting it. I honestly thought there was a good chance it was a bug, and that if it was revealed as such, it could compromise my ability to get all the achievements. Is that cheating? Maybe. I didn't enter the code with the intent of getting the achievement, I just wanted to see what message was shown on a valid or invalid entry. But I wasn't going to ask to have it cleared just because I wasn't there, nor was I going to risk a bum rush of the code entries by posting it here, knowing that if everyone jumped in, I might lose my accidental find.

Anyway, that's my story behind the code, and the reasons I didn't share my find. Hope that makes some sense.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:58 pm
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EuchreModerator
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 3342

 		I appreciate you erring on the side of caution madopal. I think you raise a valid point that there may be some degree of reward for the total number or having all of the badges. If that is the case, anyone that's 'cheated' that badge is definitely cheating the honest players.

All that would do for me is make me feel twice cheated, having made the trip to miss out on the actual payload.
_________________
Any sufficiently plausible fiction is indistinguishable from reality.
Any sufficiently twisted reality is indistinguishable from fiction.
Welcome to the new world of entertainment.
ŠEuchre 2007

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:30 pm
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