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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: MetaCortechs » MetaCortechs: General/Updates
[UPDATE] New Incidentlog files
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BrianEnigma
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 		Re: Flooding and sealing compartments & who put the file
xnbomb wrote:
aqualung1105 wrote:
I don΄t think the /incidentlogs is an offical site or part of the AP network, or intended to be (if it were it would be password protected at the very least), I think someone created it for the benefit of getting the truth out. Who?


Well, we know that Caesar's gang succesfully hacked into theaquapolis.com to post the carelessly files, so we know they are at least are capable of having done so.


It is also possible that they were put there for convenience--someone at The Aquapolis wanting to get them to someone at Metacortechs, for instance. I have done much the same kind of thing before, trying to get files to engineers out in the field. These engineers only have internet access on some company's computer on some company's network. They are out giving demos or fixing an installation and cannot connect their laptop to the company network for whatever technical/political reasons. Since they cannot receive email, it is always easiest for me to make a "hidden" folder on a web server (not linked to by anywhere, but available if you know the directory name), then place files there after the engineer phones me and says what extra files he/she needs. The field engineer can then go to any web browser, grab the files, copy them to a floppy, then load that into their off-network laptop. This can be a real life-saver (not literally, heh) when a demo has to change at the last minute or you're deep in the middle of debugging.

So, it is entirely possible (I am not sure how probable) that this was put up by some lazy engineer inside The Aquapolis for some engineers at Metacortechs. "Dudes, your SafeSys software is broken. Here's the logs." It is a heck of a lot easier and more useful than emailing files piecemeal to a bunch of people. In fact, that is kind of how the http://netninja.com/scrapbook/Metacortex/ archive started...as a loose collection of files for others to browse that later became a more-or-less "official" website Wink

It's also entirely possible that SafeSys automatically puts them there, and nobody ever bothered to lock them down with a username or password. This kind of sounds like typical behavior for software from a certain monopolistic company in the same state as Metacortechs.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:58 am
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xnbomb
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 		Re: Flooding and sealing compartments & who put the file
BriEnigma wrote:
So, it is entirely possible (I am not sure how probable) that this was put up by some lazy engineer inside The Aquapolis for some engineers at Metacortechs. "Dudes, your SafeSys software is broken. Here's the logs."

<snip>

It's also entirely possible that SafeSys automatically puts them there, and nobody ever bothered to lock them down with a username or password. This kind of sounds like typical behavior for software from a certain monopolistic company in the same state as Metacortechs.


The first explanation does sound reasonable to me for everything but the images of the guy drowning. Is anyone really lazy or dense enough that they'd place that kind of sensitive information in a publicly accessible location? There are serious liability and bad PR issues here ... big companies have legal and marketing departments that are pretty sensitive to that sort of thing.

The second idea is easier to accept. They may have designed SafeSys to make it easy to see the data on an incident ... and they may have believed that this procedure would never result in the automatic uploading of pictures of a man drowning.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:51 pm
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Moatie
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 		Maybe that guy in the picture was not trying to fix things, but he was the sabateur...captured on the webcam...leaving his picture on the site is like leaving the evidence untouched

Moatie

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:10 pm
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Marauder
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Marauder wrote:
I may be over-simplifying this, but here's what the reflected lights tell me. The security camera images aren't direct screen captures. It's as if someone took a picture of the security console with a camera, then uploaded those pics. Its not that big of a leap to assume that the other incidentlog files are the same way. This would support the flashing-light theories...

aegir wrote:
looks like a guy in a swimming pool to me... <grin>

aegir


That reminds me...the aquapolis site mentions "the world's only underwater pool". Do we know what level that's on?


Sorry to post this again...but it's been bugging me for some reason...

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:08 pm
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Giskard
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Marauder wrote:

Sorry to post this again...but it's been bugging me for some reason...


Well, I think we can only guess, as it is not noted anywhere, but imho it has to be in one of the alpha/beta/gamma/delta modules, because we don't really know what's in them... I suppose any normal hotel would have a restaurant, perhaps a small cinema, and most likely also the pool would be in one of the modules.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:14 pm
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joebrent
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Quote:
That reminds me...the aquapolis site mentions "the world's only underwater pool". Do we know what level that's on?


Or maybe it just refers to the mermaid show.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:29 pm
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yanka
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 		DonkeyOatey wrote:
Quote:
The first attempt reflects someone's unsuccessful attempt at sabotage (maybe even responsible for creating the leak). But (s)he learned that (s)he has to be accessing the remote control from an authenticated IP. So someone sitting at a Metacortechs computer (or someone who can look like they are) sabotaged the system and killed that guy. Of course this line of spec begs alot of questions. Who did it? An Metacortech's employee or hackers? Did they intend to kill that guy or just sabotage Aquapolis?


I like your reasoning, but I would just like to bring up a few details:
The first "breach" was not a leak. First, the legend shows "warning", not "leak". Second, now that we know that if a there is a leak in a module, that module is colored blue (Delos in Delta on the 21st) on that level – but Delos was grey in beta on the 8th. Third, compare the breach codes: 231x vs 004x (I'll come back to these in a second). I tend to think the 8th had a security breach, not a leak/flood breach.

On the 8th, somebody from an unauthenticated IP address was trying to close door 7. Once door 7 was closed (locally, I presume), the system was secure. Therefore, somebody @unauthenticatedIPaddress was trying to secure the system, not sabotage it.

The breach codes are drastically different. We know that the difference is not in "general location" – because the "general location" is not coded, it is stated in the log: time/breach/module/level/code. 004x must mean "leak", "specific location/sensor ID" and possibly something else.
Why might that be important? Because both Aquapolis and Metacortex lied. They said the first "incident" was a leak, while it was actually a security breach (I'm pretty sure of that, though I'm still open to rebuttal). The second one is actually a leak, but it does not make it to the news at all – probably because they don't want to reveal that someone died.

On the 21st the first leak breach is logged at 10:24:49. Doors immediately start getting closed. The door of interest to us is most likely the door leading to the guest module: it can't be a door connecting a, b, d, g modules because there are no such doors on delos; the door at the guest module is "closed" according to legend (=red).

That's the door the guy is trying to open before he drowns. First manual override is logged at 10:25:32 - > deny, deny - > the log skips everything between 10:26:14 and 10:27:14, but inside this time frame – up to 10:26:19 for sure the guy is still alive. My guess is that at 10:27:13 was the last time he tried to open the door (giving him about a minute to hold his breath), and at 10:27:14 he lost consciousness. In the next second nobody is trying to open the door, which is WHY the system is able to receive systemsecure/delta/delos.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:34 pm
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yanka
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 		MatrixofReality wrote
Quote:

D = Delta module
03 = Floor Level
3 = Security Camera #

Yep, I agree, except that "Delos" is already stated, so eliminating redundancy the whole "033" is the cam # - they probably have quite more than 9 cameras per level.


xnbomb – I share your concern about them dealing with potential flooding, though about different aspects. However, I'm nearly convinced now there was no flood the first time. But as far as getting rid of water – couldn't they evacuate everybody from a compartment, seal it off, pressurize it, fix whatever broke, and then decompress it? The gas pipes would be on the inside of each structure Question

Now, what if a compartment is already flooded, but somebody is still in it? I would think they simply have to have chambers between modules: somebody would walk/swim to the door - > the door into a chamber opens – > person gets in, as well as water - > water is drained from the chamber - > next door into adjacent module opens. Otherwise, if any floor/room/etc. got flooded while there were guests in it, and there is no method implemented to get them out ALONG with the water… the first time that happened, they'd get slapped with such huge lawsuits, and the whole goddamn megahotel would just get shot down. But most likely, they wouldn't even be allowed to open without something to address that already in place.

Which makes the fact that that guy couldn't open door A even more curious. If they did have such a "safety" chamber, then what's the big deal with letting the guy in – he wouldn't cause the flooding to other modules (guest modules, I think) anyway.

Maradeur wrote
Quote:
I may be over-simplifying this, but here's what the reflected lights tell me. The security camera images aren't direct screen captures. It's as if someone took a picture of the security console with a camera, then uploaded those pics.

I'm gonna agree on this one. I think the implication maybe that these pics were put up by somebody unauthorized, yet someone certain that he/she would not get caught. And I can't help thinking Scratch might have had something to do with it, though I'm probably wrong to think that Confused
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:31 pm
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Azathoth666
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 		You know what I thought while reading your post, yanka?

I thought, what if we aren't dealing with a someone? What if it isn't just some self-absorbed cocky sysadmin, or internal dude sharing what I'm happy to conclude (well, not happy...) are photos of a dude drowning?

What if our AI, which is supposed to be in control of all this gear is felxing it's muscles (so to speak) and the photos are like showing off to mum and dad: "hey look what I can do!". Putting the photos in the log directory is asking for them to be found... even the cleaners in the Aquapolis will likely have read-only access to the sys-logs.

So someone has died in the aquapolis... there's no press release yet... and I don't care how good your PR guys are, you can't just hide the fact that some guy just got drowned in your underwater hotel...
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:58 pm
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xnbomb
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 		Who's in control?
Azathoth666 wrote:
What if our AI, which is supposed to be in control of all this gear is felxing it's muscles (so to speak) and the photos are like showing off to mum and dad: "hey look what I can do

Yep, I think this might just be where all of this is headed. Once we start creating intelligent systems that are designed to make decisions that have life or death consequences for humans, you've got to wonder what might happen.

We've already got SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition ... check out http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/S/SCADA.html) systems out there that interface computers with hardware in the 'fleshspace'. In a sufficiently complex system, you might decide that a human being cannot handle the level of complexity of problems that the system might present ... so replace the human decision maker with a computer. Maybe even with a thinking machine that doesn't just execute instructions but is designed to adaptively learn about the world, presumably for the purpose of learning how perform its tasks better than we can teach it, but in practice who knows to what end ... and anything could and probably will happen.

We've been given some hints that Metacortechs might be dabbling in this sort of thing (their security AI as mentioned on their news page, their MetaVRX system that can anticipate what players will do next as described in the press release). Aquapolis is likely their biggest project, and no doubt they cannot resist the temptation to use their cutting edge technologies there. There's a lot of reading between the lines here, but its certainly worthy of consideration. It certainly sounds like an interesting direction to take.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:37 pm
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mulder
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 		This definetly reminds me of Resident Evil: The Movie...
The Story about the AI going crazy... she didnt go crazy, she was only trying not to spread the virus...

Of course this is not the case... but I'm pretty sure AP's AI its the best there is, because Metacortechs is behind it... but I'm not so sure about the construction itself... who is the constructor? is it mentioned somewhere?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:37 pm
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xnbomb
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 		Incident logs ... a feature :-)
Re-reading the news section on MetaCortex, from the 10.17.2003 entry entitled MetaCortex Safety System Success:
Quote:
A review of the incidentlogs, which are automatically generated and saved in such circumstances, will prove to be an affirmation of what a great system MetaCortex has installed for us, I'm sure.

The fact that they use the exact directory name in the news item (which indeed is how it was found, see http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=23453#23453) suggests that the files reside there with full official knowledge of MetaCortex and Aquapolis. Futhermore, as the news item states, the particulars of incidents are saved automatically therein. I'm still surprised that the location is not password protected, nor is someone editing what is residing there for appearances' sake. However, it's safe to think that at least the log info is meant to be there.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:36 am
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Azathoth666
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 		I guess it makes sense to me though, not pwding your syslogs... I mean, when do you ever want to review your syslogs? When something goes bang. And when the effluent hits the airconditioner, mucking around with passwords is the last thing you want to do.

I will admit that storing them on a publicly accessible website is pretty stoopid tho...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:55 am
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aegir
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 		rational paranoia
Azathoth666 wrote:
... there's no press release yet... and I don't care how good your PR guys are, you can't just hide the fact that some guy just got drowned in your underwater hotel...


oh, come on now Azathoth... a big, multinational corporation heavily invested in a high profile, jealously guarded project wouldn't be able to cover up the death of one measley little employee? i think we can all be a little more paranoid than that, hmm?

<grin>

I think this one's more likely to show up on aquapolis.com on the employment section than the news page...

heh

aegir

[edited]because i hate using the same descriptive word twice. yet i do it all the time[/edited]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:05 am
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DonkeyOatey
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 		I think we agree on the general "spirit" of the interpretation, but disagree on some details. I think it's too early to say definitively what the correct interpetation is. Possibly as more incident logs appear, things will become clearer. But in the spirit of a good argument, here are my comments:

Quote:
The first "breach" was not a leak. First, the legend shows "warning", not "leak".


I could be convinced of that. However, the yellow "warning" could also be the system's way of saying "something's wrong, but I'm not exactly sure what it is...yet" perhaps as a result of a relatively small leak in a "less important" location. Or maybe it starts off as a "warning" for a small leak, and only develops into a "flood" when other sensors (perhaps higher up on the ceiling) sense water.

Quote:
Second, now that we know that if a there is a leak in a module, that module is colored blue (Delos in Delta on the 21st) on that level – but Delos was grey in beta on the 8th.


I suggest the same reasoning that was applied to the "blinking" legend icons applies here. And if that screenshot happened to click on the next second, the module might be yellow (note: it is also a much darker shade of grey that the "signal" in the legend)

Quote:
Third, compare the breach codes: 231x vs 004x (I'll come back to these in a second). I tend to think the 8th had a security breach, not a leak/flood breach. -snip-
004x must mean "leak", "specific location/sensor ID" and possibly something else.


Again, I think this is a question of not enough information yet. The four digit codes could mean anything. For example, as I alluded to above, it could be refering to a horizontal location of the sensors. I'm leaning towards it reflecting compartment locations within the modules. Maybe 23 means inside compartment 23 (or between 2 & 3, etc.) and 00 means right up near the main LETTERED door.

Quote:
On the 8th, somebody from an unauthenticated IP address was trying to close door 7. Once door 7 was closed (locally, I presume), the system was secure. Therefore, somebody @unauthenticatedIPaddress was trying to secure the system, not sabotage it.


I disagree. I suspect that any person attempting to log in from an unauthenticated IP would have no control over anything. Not only could they not even attempt to send actions, they likely wouldn't be able to even watch things happening (wouldn't even let the person into the control panel to view).

Quote:
both Aquapolis and Metacortex lied. They said the first "incident" was a leak, while it was actually a security breach (I'm pretty sure of that, though I'm still open to rebuttal). The second one is actually a leak, but it does not make it to the news at all – probably because they don't want to reveal that someone died.


I see no reason for Aquapolis to lie about a leak occurance. If anything, quite the opposite. I think that's probably a much worse case scenario, and speaks much more to the inherent instability of something like Aquapolis than a security breach of some sort (which could much more easily be "plugged"). In short, I see few things for Aquapolis people to be more embarrased about than a structural leak, and posit that they told the truth about that detail (and chose not to embelish on the need for the manual override). Furthermore, it looks quite clear that the manual override on the first one was the RESULT of many failed system attempts to close it automatically. If it were the result a saboteur, the override attempts would likely occur BEFORE the system's failures.

Quote:
First manual override is logged at 10:25:32 - > deny, deny - > the log skips everything between 10:26:14 and 10:27:14, but inside this time frame – up to 10:26:19 for sure the guy is still alive. My guess is that at 10:27:13 was the last time he tried to open the door (giving him about a minute to hold his breath), and at 10:27:14 he lost consciousness. In the next second nobody is trying to open the door, which is WHY the system is able to receive systemsecure/delta/delos.


If you look at the times of the manual override requests, the spacing between them increases. First there's 5 seconds, then 14 seconds, then 22 seconds, then nothing. I suppose this would coincide with someone becoming more frustrated and less consious. I suggest that the last photo is meant to show us that he's a floater by 10:26:25, which would explain the lack of remaining override requests. The only thing that bothers me about this is the systemcheck times (which you also noted). Normally, it would make sense that a system would "wait" for (maybe) exactly 1 minute after any action occurs to run a system's check, so as not to "interupt" any further actions. However, the systemscheck from the first incident occurs one second after the final manual override action is completed. The explaination to fit into my arguement would be something along the lines of "well, the last successful 'automatic' action (all the other doors closing) occured over a minute prior to the systems check, and everything after that was 'manually' actuated." However I'd be the first to agree with your probable criticism that said reasoning is a bit thin. But, in a larger context, I think "my" theory has less holes.

I'm pretty much on board with everything else you mentioned in that post.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:15 am
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