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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Old News & Rumors
[Trailhead]Ministry of Argon
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amandel
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 4096
Location: Nederland

 		Stæld, when you're gone you'll be missed. Maybe Orpheus ctc will only be sporadic 'til August, a date the PM mentioned?
_________________
"I could write a hell of a paper on a grown man who dresses like a flying rodent."
"Can you hook up with a Snow Person? Can't tell you or I'd have to marry you."

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:13 am
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Dagada
Unfettered

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 355
Location: London, UK

 		Good find! I have nasty suspicion that Orpheus is going to attemp to either return time to how it was or reawaken memories within the ministry.

Alas, we don't have any confirmation the machine was destroyed....

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:30 am
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Stæld
Veteran

Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Norway

 		Here's hoping you're right, Amandel. We'll see. I'll be sure to follow his Twitter to receive any eventual future tweets.

ETA: Huh. I got a direct tweet from O, but either it's too late over here for me and my brain (note to self: get to bed earlier), or I'm just too stupid to grasp it.
Quote:
Oeagrusson (18 minutes ago)
You said that you've never been...
I didn't say a word to him; I only followed him.. Wonder what he's referring to. Gaah, better get to bed already. My eyelids are getting heavy.
_________________
Playing: None atm
Played: Purity Towers, Sunshine Mine, Ministry of Argon
Lurking: Here and there

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:03 pm
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Dagada
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Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 355
Location: London, UK

 		Aha! I might have the next line in a direct tweet too....

"...but all the things you've seen..."

Both part of:

Quote:
DON'T LOOK BACK IN ANGER - 02/03/1996
1 week at #1 - 24 weeks on chart

Slip inside the eye of your mind
Don't you know you might find
A better place to play
You said that you'd never been
But all the things that you've seen
Slowly fade away

So I start a revolution from my bed
Cos you said the brains I had went to my head
Step outside summertime's in bloom
Stand up beside the fireplace
Take that look from off your face
You ain't ever gonna burn my heart out

And so Sally can wait
She knows it's too late
As we're walking on by
Her soul slides away
But don't look back in anger
I heard you say

Take me to the place where you go
Where nobody knows if it's night or day
Please don't put your life in the hands
Of a rock 'n' roll band
Who'll throw it all away

I'm gonna start a revolution from my bed
Cos you said the brains I had went to my head
Step outside cos summertime's in bloom
Stand up beside the fireplace
Take that look from off your face
Cos you ain't ever gonna burn my heart out

And so Sally can wait
She knows it's too late
As she's walking on by
My soul slides away
But don't look back in anger
I heard you say

So Sally can wait
She knows it's too late
As we're walking on by
Her soul slides away
But don't look back in anger
I heard you say

And so Sally can wait
She knows it's too late
As she's walking on by
My soul slides away
But don't look back in anger
Don't look back in anger
At least not today


PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:56 pm
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Dagada
Unfettered

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 355
Location: London, UK

 		O has responded to a comment I made to him - you might find the following link useful in deciding what he's inferring.

http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/theseus.html

I wrote:

Quote:
You seem so familiar, sir. Are you the same one that I met that faded day? And do you honestly look back without anger?


He replied:

Quote:
the ship of theseus sails upon heroclitus' river... you tell me... Even etymology of the Similar words are held Together by white lies. #arg


I notice the use of capitalisation on Even, Similar and Together. This could be a time zone reference -EST = eastern standard time. The use of the #arg is interesting in a direct message. I'll leave you all to ponder this nice philosophical poser until my brain is less sleep deprived. And depraved.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:19 pm
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dreamerblue
Unfettered


Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 710
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 		I got a DM from Professor O today.

Quote:
...be a good girl and do what you're told...


Source is E.S.T. by White Lies:

Quote:
If you tell me to jump, then I'll die
In my dreams, I'm there
I always hoped that I'd learn how to fly
In my dreams, I'm there

Fate always loses hope
Like electric sparks in my heart
Fate always loses hope
Now be a good girl and do what you're told

If you tell me to jump, then I'll die
In my dreams, I'm there
I always hoped that I'd learn how to fly
In my dreams, I'm there

I leave my memoirs in blood on the floor of my fears with the nurse on the steps
I'm only going where you'll be someday, so don't say "Rest in peace" in your prayers

Fate always loses hope
Like electric sparks in my heart
Fate always loses hope
Now be a good girl and do what you're told

I hold you
Remember me
I hold you
Never pretend for me

I hold you
Remember me
I hold you

Fate always loses hope
Like electric sparks in my heart
Fate always loses hope
Now be a good girl and do what you're told

I hope you
Remember me
I hope you
Never pretend for me

I hope you
Remember me
I hope you
Never forget about me

I hope you
Remember me
I hope you
Never forget about me

I hope you
Remember me
I hope you
Never forget about me


This connects to the EST reference and the mention of "white lies".

Summary of some Wikipedia info about the band:
White Lies was formerly known as Fear of Flying. They changed their name when they decided to start playing some stuff they'd written that didn't fit with their current sound...new stuff that was darker. (This idea of a restart fits with the idea that the Ministry has been rebooted into a university, though the university has a lighter feel rather than a darker one.)

They have a track called "Death".

They have another track called "To Lose My Life".

This next bit is particularly interesting:

Quote:
On 11 November 2008, NME announced that White Lies would be taking part in the 2009 ShockWaves NME Awards Tour, alongside Friendly Fires, Florence and the Machine and headliners Glasvegas. [...] On the Manchester tour date, the band dueted with Florence Welch to play "Unfinished Business".


Some of the tracks on the CD Vanessa gave us were by Florence and the Machine.

Oh, and the original title of "Unfinished Business" was--get this--"XX". As in, you know, the XX card of the Tarot Deck, which has been posted for us to see before.

Does what it says on the tin.
_________________
Played: The Lost Ring, Intimation, Vanessa Atalanta, Ministry of Argon, some of Fifteen Days of Darkness
Playing: Callum Felderi (if I have time)
...& have poked my head in on various other things here and there.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:13 pm
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amandel
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 4096
Location: Nederland

 		Nice connex work, Dreamer. My DM was unexpected. I just now saw it and stammered back: Not all have forgotten

Oeagrusson from twitter wrote:
I hope you remember me...


Also remember Vladimir reffied a modern version of The Ship of Theseus, an enduring identity paradox, in his "111 FB Album" and just mentioning that O has changed his online identity/persona (avatar) from Orpheus to one of The Mad Hatter. Smile
_________________
"I could write a hell of a paper on a grown man who dresses like a flying rodent."
"Can you hook up with a Snow Person? Can't tell you or I'd have to marry you."

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:02 am
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Dagada
Unfettered

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 355
Location: London, UK

 		Taking the ship/river dilema, I suspect that in part he's hinting that although the outer vessel may change, the contents remain the same. So while he may no longer be the same person he was physically, he's still the same personality, etc, as before. Or is he? This could just as easily apply to The Ministry...

These songs are quite lyrically complex too - there's a whole bunch of meanings and inferences we can draw, some of which are contradictory. Gah!!

Interesting to notice another Manchester connection with White Lies... Although that could well be coincidence. The band are from Ealing, and virtually everyone plays in Manchester at some point.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:32 am
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amandel
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 4096
Location: Nederland
Oeagrusson from twitter wrote:
...be a good girl and do what you're told...


Appears from her FB posts that the "good girl" in question is the Claire&Vanessa merged identity and the E.S.T song Blue found is a direct entreaty on behalf of the undertoned Vanessa persona.

imo That song is a lyrical wake-up call esp. since its title is the latin word to "BE" which enforces the root (core) of the Theseus Ship question regarding the essence of ones being/identity in any world.
_________________
"I could write a hell of a paper on a grown man who dresses like a flying rodent."
"Can you hook up with a Snow Person? Can't tell you or I'd have to marry you."

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:33 am
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Stæld
Veteran

Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Norway

 		I too got a line from "EST" by White Lies. Mine was
Oeagrusson wrote:
Fate always loses hold...

Guess we'll be getting some lyrics references as we're waiting for our solstice.
_________________
Playing: None atm
Played: Purity Towers, Sunshine Mine, Ministry of Argon
Lurking: Here and there

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:05 am
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Dagada
Unfettered

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 355
Location: London, UK

 		Does the fact that O is tweeting mean that he's definitely in the present?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:27 am
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Stæld
Veteran

Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Norway

 		Apparently. At least his altered incarnation is. That is, Oeagrusson. The man named Orpheus ceased to exist when did the others.
_________________
Playing: None atm
Played: Purity Towers, Sunshine Mine, Ministry of Argon
Lurking: Here and there

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:11 am
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amandel
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 4096
Location: Nederland

 		A jaunty DM from Prof. O where perhaps he's referring to Paolo Nutini, his Sunny Side Up album and O's Cool avatar.

Oeagrusson from twitter wrote:
Now I've lost my disguise... Still,enough of Paolo N. and back to the V&A to return my costume eh?


<3 that Mad Hatter costume. Will attempt a savvy reply after some grub stokes my brain Laughing or y'all please reply further.
_________________
"I could write a hell of a paper on a grown man who dresses like a flying rodent."
"Can you hook up with a Snow Person? Can't tell you or I'd have to marry you."

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:47 am
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dreamerblue
Unfettered


Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 710
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 		In response to his DM to me, I DM'd the professor, "A White Lies fan, eh? They did a tour once with Florence and the Machine; I believe we had a mutual acquaintance who was a fan of theirs."

He sent me some DMs today:

First, this one was sent 3 times:

Quote:
I listen to words when they are spoken. The names mean nothing to me, but they do to others. At times...


Was it intentionally sent 3 times, or was that a mistake? *shrug* Not sure what he's trying to get at here, and don't have too much time to ponder it at the moment.

He also sent me:

Quote:
Now yoU move with the Tide and I've heard you've found peace of mind? the thiNg is with a ship of fools, It's full of fools...


The first sentence is from the song White Lies by Paolo Nutini (whom he also mentioned to amandel)...and the capitalized letters do indeed spell out NUTINI.

I can't find the second sentence...is it also lyrics, or is it just Prof. O saying that the Argonauts of the Ministry are all fools?

Edit: also, should we be giving anyone at the university a heads-up that O is making contact?
_________________
Played: The Lost Ring, Intimation, Vanessa Atalanta, Ministry of Argon, some of Fifteen Days of Darkness
Playing: Callum Felderi (if I have time)
...& have poked my head in on various other things here and there.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:37 pm
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Stæld
Veteran

Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Norway

 		O dropped a direct message to me on Twitter yesterday, by my computer's graphical system broke down yesterday, so I didn't get to check it before now. Note to self: Be more careful when messing with system files (even if there is a chance you might repair it, it means staying in text-only mode for hours. At night.).

Oeagrusson wrote:
Ever been to the underworld? Offen bach there, but then you'd call me a lyre I suppose?
Now I'm not that well bewandered in this Greek mythology with which we are working. But this appears to refer to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus_in_the_Underworld. I'm in a lil' rush, so can't do much analysis atm, sorry for that.

ETA: I responded to his message, since his hint was given in the disguise of conversation.
Stæld wrote:
A person of an open mind, I don't call people things without proof. Did you find what you sought, or did you lose it?

Apparently, Offenbach's "Orpheus in the Underworld" is quite a different story than the one I learnt at school. In Offenbach's operetta, Orpheus and Eurydice were a couple, but they both fell in love with someone else. They discovered this, and kept quiet. The man with whom Eurydice fell in love was Pluto (Roman name of Hades), and so (short version) he killed Eurydice in order to have her with him in the Abyssus/Hades/Hell.

Then the gods of Olympus got to know of this, and they all wanted to help. So they all went to Hades in order to save Eurydice. At the same time, the Public Opinion wanted for Orpheus to go to Hades and save Eurydice, which he reluctantly agreed to.

In Hades, Jupiter wanted Eurydice for himself. So he and Orpheus made a deal in between themselves. As Orpheus walked out from Hades, not looking back (a trace of the traditional tale), Jupiter threw a lightning behind Orpheus, so that he had to turn around. He could not have Eurydice, and thus left emptyhanded (as he wished). The operetta ends with this, and a large party in Hades by the other gods (don't ask me).

Source: http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Orpheus-in-the-Underworld

ETA: Got some kind of reply. I'm busy with my exam preparations, so I'll let y'all try and see for yourselves if there's anything to be made out of this.
Oeagrusson wrote:
If something is not yet found, but still being sought, what is it to you then?

_________________
Playing: None atm
Played: Purity Towers, Sunshine Mine, Ministry of Argon
Lurking: Here and there

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:15 pm
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