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We Lost Our Gold (welostourgold.com)
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UDbmas
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:47 am
Last edited by UDbmas on Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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czg22
Boot

Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 30

 		A few corrections
fellowtraveler wrote:
Here is my analysis of the clues in the second episode along with my updated map for those who want to follow along.

1. The first obvious clue-type statements in this episode seem to be when the Captain says: "Crothers, fire a cannonball o'er her bridge, south by southwest. And Tom, for the sake of clue type order here's where you be insertin' your words from the last video."

According to wikipedia there is no such marine compass designation as south by southwest. This could mean a couple of things. First, it could just be an error or oversight on the part of the puppetmasters, in which case the problem is figuring out whether they meant to refer to the directions of south by west, south-southwest, or southwest by south. Second, it could have been a purposeful error, in order to further obfuscate the clue or just to add some character to the episode. The fact that Crothers subsequently fails to understand the direction, asking "Did he say west or southwest? All I hear be screamin'" is suggestive of this. Third, it could be a reference to the South by Southwest (SXSW) festival held in Austin, Texas every Spring. This seems like the least likely of the explanations due to the lack of connections between SXSW and Central Park.

Looking at the compass rose, you can see that if the Captain simply meant to say southwest by south and misspoke, the proper direction to follow after the Chess & Checkers House would be between 208.13° and 219.37° on the compass rose (with 213.75° being the midpoint direction). If Crothers was right, and the Captain had really intended to say south by west, then the direction would be between 185.63° and 196.87° on the compass rose (with 191.25° being the midpoint direction). Alternatively, if the Captain had simply meant to indicate south-southwest, then the proper direction would be between 196.88° and 208.12°on the compass rose (with 202.50° being the midpoint direction.)

Using this compass graphic as a reference, I plotted a line straight from the Chess & Checkers House using all three options. Only south-southwest created a line that passed "o'er her bridge", in this case over the Driprock Arch. I added the compass to the map centered over the Chess & Checkers House, in this map for ease of reference for anyone who wants to try plotting different directions. The fact that the Captain orders Crothers to fire a cannonball "o'er her bridge" suggests to me that the path is supposed to go over the Driprock Arch, rather than underneath it.

2. The next clue is clearly Tom's numbers, which I think we are all in agreement is likely a reference to the lampposts in Central Park. Presumably we are intended to walk a path to each lamppost in the order they were named, i.e. from 6323, to 6251, to 6229.

3. After the lampposts the next clue is the Captain's order to Crothers to "fire south" and "[a]im below their bridge." The only "bridges" south of the lampposts are Pinebank Arch and Greyshot Arch. I had originally focused on Greyshot Arch because the name sounded like cannon fire to me due to the inclusion of the words "grey" and "shot." However, looking at the map reveals that Pinebank Arch is the more likely candidate of the two, since (a) it is directly south of the last lamppost marker, and (b) according to the official Central Park website, "[t]he misnamed Pine Bank Arch is more accurately a bridge...." Presumably, by contrast Greyshot Arch is not a bridge at all? The reference to aiming below a bridge, indicates to me that one should walk below the bridge.

4. The next clue relates to the Lieutenant on the foredeck giving the sign of victory, who turns out to be a kid with four guys behind him, along with smoldering cannons of destruction. This seems to me to also be a reference to the Maine Monument, since as this page explains, the figures adorning the monument are: Victory, Peace, Courage, Fortitude and Justice. The pictures of the Maine Monument found on this page also show that a figure of a young man is standing on the foredeck of a vessel flanked by one male figure and two female figures in the background.

I have not been able to get definite answers on this point, but I believe that the goddess Columbia (symbol of America) is depicted in bronze at the top of the monument flanked by the tririga. According to this page, the bronze used for these figures was recovered from the guns of the U.S.S. Maine itself, which would make them the "smoldering cannons of destruction." As for the identities of the remaining figures at the base of the monument, there seems to be some uncertainty and conflicting descriptions abound. However, this page explains:

Quote:
In the front of the tall shaft is an allegorical group arranged in a ship configuration, entitled The Antebellum State of Mind: Courage Awaiting the Flight of Peace and Fortitude Supporting the Feeble. The youth at the prow of the ship holds his hands in the sign of the Victory that he represents. Recumbent figures at the side fountains represent the Atlantic and Pacific, while those at the rear represent The Post-Bellum Idea: Justice Receiving Back the Sword Entrusted to War.

This description seems accurate, since this page shows another casting of the Fortitude figure from the original sculptor.

Despite some potential uncertainty regarding the identity of the figures, it seems clear that the clues point towards the Maine Monument as being the next location, particularly when looked at in conjunction with Mulligan's dialogue about "peace, courage, fortitude, and justice." Thus, the next stop is the Maine Monument which is located at the Merchants' Gate Entrance to the park.

5. The last clue is the Captain's statement that "[o]ur last heading were for the silver coast of Africa." There appears to be consensus on this board that this is simply a reference to the metal globe sculpture that sits in front of the Trump International Hotel. According to this page the globe was designed by Kim Brandell and a look at his website reveals that he has actually made similar globes for a number of other Trump properties around the world. As you can see from this picture, the globe is basically sitting right above the entrance to the subway where the A, B, C and D trains run.


Thanks for doing this. I have a few corrections after visiting a couple of times.

1 - 3. After leaving Chess and Checkers I took the ramp, crossed the street, took the sidewalk, (literally 15 feet away) walked to the ball fields and walked south (not north around the long way). This path eventually curves to go southwest and leads straight to the first lampost at ballfield #4. Then walk to the next lamppost and walk up the rock (there are steps) to the last lamppost which gives you a view of the ball field (looks like the green flag and puts your over Pine Bank Bridge. Next go "o'er her bridge" which is south. Don't go under. There is a dead end under that bridge.

4. Agree.

5. Agree. However the stops there are the A, B, C, D, 1. The 2 and 3 only stop at Columbus Circle at night because they are making local stops. I wouldn't really consider the 2 and 3.

Thanks again!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:49 am
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monkeypanky
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Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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 		Re: Subway Info
UDbmas wrote:
Don't forget Governor's Island.


The PDF subway map says the ferry to GI is "summer only"

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:55 am
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enaxor
I Have No Life

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 2395
monkeypanky wrote:
Both MTA maps show that in addition to the AC and the BD lines, the 123 train can also be boarded at Columbus Circle. If the 123 line is taken to its last stop in Manhattan (South Ferry) then anyone can get off and board the free ferry boat ride to Staten Island and take it to the St. George terminal.


If "crows nest", depicts a high point, the highest point on the east coast, south of Maine is on Staten Island, Todt Hill. Not sure how "Todt" is pronounced, but could it be close to "Tutty"?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:56 am
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monkeypanky
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Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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 		Re: A few corrections
czg22 wrote:
5. Agree. However the stops there are the A, B, C, D, 1. The 2 and 3 only stop at Columbus Circle at night because they are making local stops. I wouldn't really consider the 2 and 3.

You are correct in that express trains make local stops at night. It was not implicit in my other post as to why I was distinguishing between local and express trains; thank you.

Consider this, though: if the sun being put out is a clue that we should be traveling by night -- not so absurd in "the city that never sleeps" -- then perhaps we need to consider how things like the nighttime service changes affect the game play.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:10 am
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UDbmas
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:13 am
Last edited by UDbmas on Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mlssry
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Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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 		Re: A few corrections
czg22 wrote:
fellowtraveler wrote:
Here is my analysis of the clues in the second episode along with my updated map for those who want to follow along.

1. The first obvious clue-type statements in this episode seem to be when the Captain says: "Crothers, fire a cannonball o'er her bridge, south by southwest. And Tom, for the sake of clue type order here's where you be insertin' your words from the last video."

According to wikipedia there is no such marine compass designation as south by southwest. This could mean a couple of things. First, it could just be an error or oversight on the part of the puppetmasters, in which case the problem is figuring out whether they meant to refer to the directions of south by west, south-southwest, or southwest by south. Second, it could have been a purposeful error, in order to further obfuscate the clue or just to add some character to the episode. The fact that Crothers subsequently fails to understand the direction, asking "Did he say west or southwest? All I hear be screamin'" is suggestive of this. Third, it could be a reference to the South by Southwest (SXSW) festival held in Austin, Texas every Spring. This seems like the least likely of the explanations due to the lack of connections between SXSW and Central Park.

Looking at the compass rose, you can see that if the Captain simply meant to say southwest by south and misspoke, the proper direction to follow after the Chess & Checkers House would be between 208.13° and 219.37° on the compass rose (with 213.75° being the midpoint direction). If Crothers was right, and the Captain had really intended to say south by west, then the direction would be between 185.63° and 196.87° on the compass rose (with 191.25° being the midpoint direction). Alternatively, if the Captain had simply meant to indicate south-southwest, then the proper direction would be between 196.88° and 208.12°on the compass rose (with 202.50° being the midpoint direction.)

Using this compass graphic as a reference, I plotted a line straight from the Chess & Checkers House using all three options. Only south-southwest created a line that passed "o'er her bridge", in this case over the Driprock Arch. I added the compass to the map centered over the Chess & Checkers House, in this map for ease of reference for anyone who wants to try plotting different directions. The fact that the Captain orders Crothers to fire a cannonball "o'er her bridge" suggests to me that the path is supposed to go over the Driprock Arch, rather than underneath it.

2. The next clue is clearly Tom's numbers, which I think we are all in agreement is likely a reference to the lampposts in Central Park. Presumably we are intended to walk a path to each lamppost in the order they were named, i.e. from 6323, to 6251, to 6229.

3. After the lampposts the next clue is the Captain's order to Crothers to "fire south" and "[a]im below their bridge." The only "bridges" south of the lampposts are Pinebank Arch and Greyshot Arch. I had originally focused on Greyshot Arch because the name sounded like cannon fire to me due to the inclusion of the words "grey" and "shot." However, looking at the map reveals that Pinebank Arch is the more likely candidate of the two, since (a) it is directly south of the last lamppost marker, and (b) according to the official Central Park website, "[t]he misnamed Pine Bank Arch is more accurately a bridge...." Presumably, by contrast Greyshot Arch is not a bridge at all? The reference to aiming below a bridge, indicates to me that one should walk below the bridge.

4. The next clue relates to the Lieutenant on the foredeck giving the sign of victory, who turns out to be a kid with four guys behind him, along with smoldering cannons of destruction. This seems to me to also be a reference to the Maine Monument, since as this page explains, the figures adorning the monument are: Victory, Peace, Courage, Fortitude and Justice. The pictures of the Maine Monument found on this page also show that a figure of a young man is standing on the foredeck of a vessel flanked by one male figure and two female figures in the background.

I have not been able to get definite answers on this point, but I believe that the goddess Columbia (symbol of America) is depicted in bronze at the top of the monument flanked by the tririga. According to this page, the bronze used for these figures was recovered from the guns of the U.S.S. Maine itself, which would make them the "smoldering cannons of destruction." As for the identities of the remaining figures at the base of the monument, there seems to be some uncertainty and conflicting descriptions abound. However, this page explains:

Quote:
In the front of the tall shaft is an allegorical group arranged in a ship configuration, entitled The Antebellum State of Mind: Courage Awaiting the Flight of Peace and Fortitude Supporting the Feeble. The youth at the prow of the ship holds his hands in the sign of the Victory that he represents. Recumbent figures at the side fountains represent the Atlantic and Pacific, while those at the rear represent The Post-Bellum Idea: Justice Receiving Back the Sword Entrusted to War.

This description seems accurate, since this page shows another casting of the Fortitude figure from the original sculptor.

Despite some potential uncertainty regarding the identity of the figures, it seems clear that the clues point towards the Maine Monument as being the next location, particularly when looked at in conjunction with Mulligan's dialogue about "peace, courage, fortitude, and justice." Thus, the next stop is the Maine Monument which is located at the Merchants' Gate Entrance to the park.

5. The last clue is the Captain's statement that "[o]ur last heading were for the silver coast of Africa." There appears to be consensus on this board that this is simply a reference to the metal globe sculpture that sits in front of the Trump International Hotel. According to this page the globe was designed by Kim Brandell and a look at his website reveals that he has actually made similar globes for a number of other Trump properties around the world. As you can see from this picture, the globe is basically sitting right above the entrance to the subway where the A, B, C and D trains run.


Thanks for doing this. I have a few corrections after visiting a couple of times.

1 - 3. After leaving Chess and Checkers I took the ramp, crossed the street, took the sidewalk, (literally 15 feet away) walked to the ball fields and walked south (not north around the long way). This path eventually curves to go southwest and leads straight to the first lampost at ballfield #4. Then walk to the next lamppost and walk up the rock (there are steps) to the last lamppost which gives you a view of the ball field (looks like the green flag and puts your over Pine Bank Bridge. Next go "o'er her bridge" which is south. Don't go under. There is a dead end under that bridge.

4. Agree.

5. Agree. However the stops there are the A, B, C, D, 1. The 2 and 3 only stop at Columbus Circle at night because they are making local stops. I wouldn't really consider the 2 and 3.

Thanks again!
So do you think that maybe they are saying to first "o'er her bridge, south by southwest" means go over Pinebank and then when he says "aim below their bridge" he means go under Greyshot?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:15 am
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UDbmas
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:25 am
Last edited by UDbmas on Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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fellowtraveler
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Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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 		czg22: I appreciate that things might be different in real life than as depicted in the maps, so I am very happy that you are willing to walk the path and share your results here. However, I'm not sure that I can agree with you about the path you took to the ballfields and the path you take after the last lamppost.

The Captain clearly says to "fire a cannonball o'er her bridge, south by southwest" as part of the first clue, so I think the valid path has to involve walking OVER a bridge. By process of elimination I think the only bridge that can be is the Driprock Arch. Crossing the street after taking the ramp from the Chess & Checkers House might be a more direct path to the ballfields, but because it does not involve the Driprock Arch I don't think it can be correct.

Similarly, after the lampposts the relevant clue is the Captain's command to Crothers to "fire south" and "[a]im below their bridge." I think this requires that the path go BELOW a bridge to be correct. I appreciate that the Pinebank Arch runs into a dead end if you go under it from the direction I indicated on my map, since the Bridle Trail ends there. Maybe we are meant to go under Greyshot Arch after all instead? Is it feasible to cut over the lawn from going under Pinebank Arch like I suggest on my map?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:26 am
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monkeypanky
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Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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UDbmas wrote:
enaxor wrote:
Not sure how "Todt" is pronounced, but could it be close to "Tutty"?
TODT pronounced like TOAD.


From the wikipedia article, "Todt Hill (pronounced Tote Hill) [elevation 410 ft (125 m)] is a hill formed of serpentine rock on Staten Island, New York. It is the highest natural point in the five boroughs of New York City, and it is the highest point on the eastern seaboard of the United States south of Maine."

And just for shits & giggles, the highest point along the east coast is Bar Harbor, ME.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:27 am
Last edited by monkeypanky on Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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nyd
Guest


 		After reading some of the postings I started to think of the possibility that "silver coast of Africa" could be the big globe in Flushing Meadows, and you'll take 1 Train ("red") from Columbus Circle to Penn Station to take LIRR to get there. From the same station you can walk to Citifield ("Sele") as well.

But now "ship" keyword(?) appeared on Twitter... Maybe the route goes to Staten Island, not Queens... 1 Train is the only train that goes all the way to the Ferry Terminal.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:34 am
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mlssry
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Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 324
fellowtraveler wrote:
czg22: I appreciate that things might be different in real life than as depicted in the maps, so I am very happy that you are willing to walk the path and share your results here. However, I'm not sure that I can agree with you about the path you took to the ballfields and the path you take after the last lamppost.

The Captain clearly says to "fire a cannonball o'er her bridge, south by southwest" as part of the first clue, so I think the valid path has to involve walking OVER a bridge. By process of elimination I think the only bridge that can be is the Driprock Arch. Crossing the street after taking the ramp from the Chess & Checkers House might be a more direct path to the ballfields, but because it does not involve the Driprock Arch I don't think it can be correct.

Similarly, after the lampposts the relevant clue is the Captain's commandserted. So I guess it depends on wto Crothers to "fire south" and "[a]im below their bridge." I think this requires that the path go BELOW a bridge to be correct. I appreciate that the Pinebank Arch runs into a dead end if you go under it from the direction I indicated on my map, since the Bridle Trail ends there. Maybe we are meant to go under Greyshot Arch after all instead? Is it feasible to cut over the lawn from going under Pinebank Arch like I suggest on my map?
The only way I could see this working the other way in the video Capt. tells Crothers to fire the cannonball but Crothers doesn't fire it right away he does it after the spot where Toms numbers are to be inseted so I guess it depends on if we should be following the words in order or their actions?? If we follow their actions then Toms numbers are the first clue in episode 2.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:10 pm
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ElGuapo
Kilroy

Joined: 09 Aug 2010
Posts: 2
enaxor wrote:
monkeypanky wrote:
Both MTA maps show that in addition to the AC and the BD lines, the 123 train can also be boarded at Columbus Circle. If the 123 line is taken to its last stop in Manhattan (South Ferry) then anyone can get off and board the free ferry boat ride to Staten Island and take it to the St. George terminal.


If "crows nest", depicts a high point, the highest point on the east coast, south of Maine is on Staten Island, Todt Hill. Not sure how "Todt" is pronounced, but could it be close to "Tutty"?


Could the crow's nest be referring to an observation deck in the city somewhere? 30 Rock? empire state building?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:20 pm
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czg22
Boot

Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 30

 		Driprock
You know you might be right about driprock. Doesn't Crothers have a little teardrop at one point in the anime. I'll walk it again, maybe other parts of the video make sense with your path.

Also someone else talks about going under greyshot arch. I walked under it and found the restrooms on that path (I gotta pee...).

I'll walk it again today and report back!

Thanks for the messages!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:25 pm
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b8sbal3
Boot

Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 23

 		Hey all, new to this thing…..

Am I oversimplifying everything by saying that you all have already solved it?

"tutty" is REALLY close to Todt (especially if you just say it like it looks....."Tod-T"….like a Pirate might do). Far too obscure to be a coincidence. Not to mention that it is the highest point in the 5 boroughs. This is a perfect place…undeveloped land, as remote as you can get in NYC.

My (novice) guess: it is somewhere on Todt Hill. We are going to spend the next 5 weeks going all over town, end up there, and be given specific clues in the last episode as to where it is there…….

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:34 pm
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