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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: MetaCortechs » MetaCortechs: Puzzles
[UPDATE] Beth's Metadex and Zip Files [Nov 2]
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burnin
Boot

Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 20

Marl64 wrote:
The problems is what does "self" refer to (in the context of the item being checked)? itself, or the AI

And does the "isAwareOf" method check; if the "object" is aware of the "self", or the "self" is aware of the "object"?


FWIW, Self, in Delphi, refers to the instance of the object (like "this", in Java, IIRC). From the help:

"Within the implementation of a method, the identifier Self references the object in which the method is called. "

Sender is also a Delphi term: It's the object that triggered the event. In that case Self would be the man, Sender would be Beth.

Anyway, this is how I see it:

I (meaning the man, or AI, if you prefer) received a question ("what is happening?"). What can I respond? There are 84720075 events happening around, 64492 are possible answers. I check which events, between all of them, I am aware of (??or which of them are aware of me??). After all, I can't talk about something I shouldn't know that is happening. Result of the check: I am aware of all of them.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:39 pm
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ChainedLightning
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 85

So, let's say Metacortex has developed an AI... and the AI has realized that the world isn't "real". The not-so-bright-yet AI created by Metacortex could then easily create a program that looks like a man, and wherever this program went it is possible he would create anomolies... but this program might not yet be able to talk with humans yet, even though it's trying to figure it out.

That doesn't explain the patterns that Beth is seeing though.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:00 pm
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Mod
Boot

Joined: 05 Oct 2003
Posts: 63
Location: Brasil

Why the protocol is named as cg://ara9975.lka18383 . It looks like an internet adress.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:02 pm
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Omnie
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772

Hmm...the problem with the AI-discovers-the-Matrix theories (I've been thinking along those lines as well) is that the Animatrix short "Matriculated" was based on the premise that an AI cannot determine whether its surroundings are real. I forget the explanation given in the anime, but it seemed to make sense, I think. Very Happy

Would that be considered canon? I have doubts about introducing the comics as evidence in Matrix debates, but the anime were supervised by the great Brothers themselves (not to mention the ones that were written by them), so presumably they'd have ensured that the ideas in them weren't too far removed from their own...

However, this ARG is certainly free to throw those notions to the wind...which was my reasoning behind ignoring Matriculated and continuing to speculate along those lines. Very Happy I wanted to throw this out there, though.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:07 pm
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xnbomb
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 660
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ChainedLightning wrote:
That doesn't explain the patterns that Beth is seeing though.

Have people seen the changes in Katgirl's notes on her MetaDex? With everything else that has been going on, there has been very little talk about that. It suggests at least something about the nature of the pattern.

Katgirl knows a lot more about the events than we might otherwise imagine. 'Pattern has become apparent, Will he know more?, Will this work?' gives the distinct impression that Katgirl has some idea about what the events are supposed to achieve (and how it is supposed to work). 'McConnell found a pattern, Successfully predicted one event, Missed it, Contact soon?' at least suggests that Katgirl knows that Beth might have contact with the mysterious 'him' and has been urging Beth to seek out the events because she wishes to encourage that contact.

So if MetaCortechs (or one its AIs) is responsible for the events, their pattern, and drawing Beth in ... Katgirl seems to be in on it or at least aware of it ... maybe she (and MetaCortechs) are using Beth to figure out what she (and other higher ups at MetaCortechs) haven't been able to figure out, namely the pattern so they can make contact?

Unfortunately, this doesn't give us anything definitive about the pattern. But it does show that MetaCortechs (or at least Katgirl, whom we might assume is a faithful employee given her recent honor and being transferred to R&D by the big cheese himself to keep an eye on Beth) has a real interest in the events and their pattern.
Mod wrote:
Why the protocol is named as cg://ara9975.lka18383 . It looks like an internet adress.

cg could stand for computer graphic or computer generated?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:13 pm
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Wix
Boot

Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 57

All together now...

I like all the ideas that are going on in the thread.

I've put Beth's e-mail and the PDA files together in the (crappy) Windows Word (Doc) file format below.

Thing to note at the end.... Beth wrote in her e-mail "It was just so unreal" and you can see the PDA file I have in response to it (20031031173006) and then she wrote "and I feel like I was losing my mind". The PDA file is the last one (20031031173011).

What's going on here is either Beth actually said that outloud, OR, the person/agent/AI-thingy is able to READ HER MIND.

Take note, too, in just about each of the XML files, there is a <response> tag near the end. This is the person/agent/AI's ultimate response to Beth's questions. Trying to keep track of the direction of the <message type="..."> tags, and they aren't working out the smoothest, yet.

This is pretty close at this point,

-Wix
beth.doc
Description  Beth\'s e-mail to Kat and PDA files interleaved.
doc

 Download 
Filename  beth.doc 
Filesize  23.5KB 
Downloaded  186 Time(s) 

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:59 am
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Ehsan
Entrenched

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

Nice wrap up Wix. It completly makes sense and I think covers everything. Main points:

- The AI can't speak or remember anything
- The AI can read minds
- The AI follows instructions blindly

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:21 am
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ParityBit
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Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 168
Location: London Above

Azathoth666 wrote:
Anyway, what struck me about the translations is that it all appears to be tag based: possibly XML? What better way to describe a dynamic environment: something crops up, you just add a new descriptive tag to the system. My thoughts are that this is a program which (like the Keymaker, the Oracle, Persephone and the Merov) didn't go back to the source. This means that it's just a loose bit of code, so it won't be able to update itself: hence no access to the native language module.

Thoughts?


Well, do we think that a program from the Matrix, be it Agent or other type of program, would have its code in English, in a version of XML (or SGML)? Because if this is the same timeline as the films, then the machines are running technology 200 years in the future; remember that though Neo thinks it is the year 1999, Morpheus says it is closer to 2199.

The machines became self aware in the early 21st century and have since then had time to create their own programming languages.

Makes me think that this could be something from Metacortex rather than the Matrix.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:31 am
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Pollux Troy
Boot

Joined: 10 Oct 2003
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Location: Brazil

Omnie wrote:
I forget the explanation given in the anime, but it seemed to make sense, I think. Very Happy


"To an artificial mind, all reality is virtual"

The best quote in whole DVD...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:30 am
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Pollux Troy
Boot

Joined: 10 Oct 2003
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ParityBit wrote:
Because if this is the same timeline as the films, then the machines are running technology 200 years in the future; remember that though Neo thinks it is the year 1999, Morpheus says it is closer to 2199.

The machines became self aware in the early 21st century and have since then had time to create their own programming languages.

Makes me think that this could be something from Metacortex rather than the Matrix.


Well, according to the Archtect, the Matrix could be hundreds of years, maybe thousands. We will never know (perhaps in Revolutions?).

But I agree with you when you say that the technology of the language is from Metacortechs. I don't think that AI with hundreds of years of evolution could use this XML crap... Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:43 am
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XtRaVa
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 565
Location: Portsmouth, England

(Dont think this has been mentioned)

For anyone thats seen the animatrix, we see there are countless AI programs that monitor, and rectify glitches found in the matrix...no not agents, just bug exterminators...this "man" could be something that catalogues glitches etc. I'm pretty sure thats what we all think, or close to anyway...

[edit] to explain myself a bit clearer...i am NOT, repeat NOT suggesting he is ai sent from the machines, i believe he is most likely the work of ai, i only mentioned the other ones from animatrix coz it gives an example of ai searching for glitches. sorry >.< [/edit]

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:24 am
Last edited by XtRaVa on Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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joebrent
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Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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Quote:
For anyone thats seen the animatrix, we see there are countless AI programs that monitor, and rectify glitches found in the matrix...no not agents, just bug exterminators...this "man" could be something that catalogues glitches etc. I'm pretty sure thats what we all think, or close to anyway...


I hope that's not what we all think, or I guess I'd be way off. I think he's Labyrinth code, and they're testing AI. Maybe he didn't reply because they haven't developed a response generator yet.

[edit] OK, you know what, I don't believe that anymore. He's got to be coming from the machine world. Duh.[/edit]

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:36 pm
Last edited by joebrent on Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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XtRaVa
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 565
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I didnt mean he is sent by robots, I just meant he is AI, and not a man, and the only reason he is there is either because of the glitch, or to investigate the glitch...I didnt actually mean he was sent by the machines, but I can see why it sounded a lot like that, I have read this thread, and its already been mentioned loads that he must be the work of meta, and most likely their project "labyrinth". Dang...next time I wont think out loud without explaning myself properly, sometimes only you understand what you mean...if you get what i mean? lol

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:45 pm
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Ahriman
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Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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I don't think that the machines would necessarily use a language like that, but this might just be an AI stream of consciousness translated onto Beth's PDA in the only way that her PDA could recognise. I still think that the 'man' is some form of program, and what we see in the files were indeed a kind of internal monologue.

I do like the idea that Labyrinth is beginning to hack the matrix, though - and not necessarily beyond the realms of possiblity in the matrix universe, I wouldn't have thought. It's using vast amounts of processing power to do something after all. What if the anomalies are, in fact, Labyrinth learning the programming language of the matrix? As people have already pointed out, the AI's languages would be sophisticated and intricate, and Labyrinth would need a lot more processing power to hack the matrix than is available in the comparatively old-fashioned mainframes it is currently limited to. It might explain the huge whomps that the hackers are discussing.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:18 pm
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yanka
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Joined: 06 Oct 2003
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Minotaur

Wow, this thread has become wildly speculative, so I'll try too.

A while ago, somewhere here, I think (though not sure), I speculated that the "whomps" that Caesar & Co are talking about are caused by an AI. In silvia files, they keep talking about something "non-human" causing huge spikes on some server(s). So, exptrapolating on the mythos of Labyrinth, I proposed that Metacortex' project was a habitat for Minotaur. This habitat (Labyrinth proper) would be like a virtual "world" for this AI that they created (the Minotaur). Somehow the Minotaur finds a way to escape the Labyrinth and starts hanging out on the net; he finds his way to little-boxes and leaves a "footprint" there, which our hacker friends promptly discover.

Now, having realized that "reality" is not limited to the web, Minotaur "escapes" once more, and is now roaming free in the "real" world, which is no more "real" than Labyrinth, for that matter. However, there is a problem - named 259 - he's out of his habitat (which he was made for), thus his functionality is hugely messed up. Maybe his continous attempts to "connect" to homebase interfere with the coding of "reality" and that is what causes the "events".

There are many holes in this theory, as far as I see:

Why does he choose the path that he chooses? Is he trying to get back into the Labyrinth?

What does Aquapolis have to do with this?

How long ago did he get out (Beth's archives start at year 2000)?

What is Metacortex doing about this? Are they trying to catch him? It doesn't really appear so - if anything, I'd say, they are trying to replicate him.

What could he have to do with Avery's disappearance?

The only thing I can easily deal with is "location". Since all the locations are virtual, one doesn't really have to travel - so the Minotaur could have easily been to Africa and, let's say, Europe, in no time.

I'm gonna think about how this fits in with everything that happenned on Halloween now...
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:49 pm
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