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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #27
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Gentleman Caller
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Location: Misery(Known as Missouri to out-of-staters.)

JKatkina wrote:
Gentleman Caller wrote:
I have posed several specific worries, the videos lack of Slender-man and over-all in-feasibility, the amount of panning shots that simply didn't need to be there, and silence from Jay. I've asked time and time again for someone to explain to me the significance of this video, but I have yet to receive an answer, most preferring instead to tell me to calm down and it's okay, which leads me to believe that there really is no significance.

Maybe that's wrong of me. But so far, I have seen nothing but excuses made on their behalf. I'm not saying it's over, or that their hacks, but I am saying that this was disappointing, and that I hope this is not telling of things to come.


Gotta say, dude, you have been presented a number of reasons why the video was done the way it was. I don't understand why you didn't seem to notice them.

For example, to be horribly self-indulgent:

JKatkina wrote:
It is the implications that this entry raises that are the most important part of the entry. It teases us with suggestions of what might have happened in the interim, if you take the time to consider them -- his new camera, for example, the hoodie that seems the same as in the recent Masked twitpic, the pulsing television, the fact that he apparently had at least the faculties to drive a car, take himself to a hotel and book a room... it leads us on, and is more about showing us what we don't know than telling us any answers. I personally think that's a brilliant ploy.


In summation, the significance is the revelations and implications is grants us. It holds significance as a slow-paced build-up setting into motion things that will come into play sooner or later. (Hopefully sooner!) I would also argue that it would have been much more of a cop-out to slap the Operator in the very first video than it is to draw out the suspense and mess with our expectations. That's like sex with no foreplay. It may still be great, but it's just not as MUCH fun.

I have to ask: What wouldn't've disappointed you? What would you have wanted to see in this video?


Jay actually speaking would have gone a long way to to convincing me of the necessity or at least significance of this video. To factor in my own shameful self-indulgence, I'll describe how I would have re-done the shots.

One, there wouldn't be a video this time. It would be pictures and text, acting as a precursor to the larger video to come in the next day or two. The text would have been moved to twitter updates, accompanied by a few still shots of the hotel room, the surrounding area, and the hallway.

Why would I do this? Because it feels more immersive to me. Inserting the text into the video is a great narrative technique, and that's the whole problem: It makes me feel like I'm watching a movie, which reminds me that none of this is real, and that combined with the lack of any real scare-points diminishes my enjoyment immensely. It breaks flow to throw the text up in the middle of a bunch of supposedly candid shots, especially when the shots are just you running around doing what amounts to random shit. It's less a vlog, and more a trailer for a student-film, which I guess is fine, but it's not what I signed on for, and it's not what the last 26 entries have set me up for. Maybe it's just me, though.

JKatkina wrote:


I think the speculation about Jay being the Masky in the twitpic comes from the twitpic Masky wearing an apparently brown hoodie, and Jay in the new video wearing a very similar brown hoodie. It's tenuous, and I know I for one would need a bit more convincing, but the connection is there.

Also, the idea of the mask being a protective talisman (of sorts) could apply... to some degree. We don't know what Jay was doing for those seven months. Maybe Tim showed up, showed him how to use the mask, but then something went awry and Jay didn't stay protected. Speculation ho!


But, Tim was actively stalking him. He appeared in a couple of TTA's videos. I don't know, it just seems kind of sketchy to think that Tim is anything but a servant or victim of Slendy.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:58 pm
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TheNightmareComplex
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He may have been in whatever hypnotic/trance state that brought him to this new location at the time of this shooting, there's no evidence to suggest he was in full control of his own faculties. The fish-eye lens certainly adds a sense of vertigo and confusion to the overall atmosphere.

Ce Gars has stated time and time again this series isn't about shock-you horror, they even go so far as to call their own series an on-off "Where's Waldo." This series is about atmosphere. And atmosphere needs a setting. This video provides a setting.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:01 pm
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JKatkinaModerator
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Gentleman Caller wrote:
Jay actually speaking would have gone a long way to to convincing me of the necessity or at least significance of this video. To factor in my own shameful self-indulgence, I'll describe how I would have re-done the shots.

One, there wouldn't be a video this time. It would be pictures and text, acting as a precursor to the larger video to come in the next day or two. The text would have been moved to twitter updates, accompanied by a few still shots of the hotel room, the surrounding area, and the hallway.

Why would I do this? Because it feels more immersive to me. Inserting the text into the video is a great narrative technique, and that's the whole problem: It makes me feel like I'm watching a movie, which reminds me that none of this is real, and that combined with the lack of any real scare-points diminishes my enjoyment immensely. It breaks flow to throw the text up in the middle of a bunch of supposedly candid shots, especially when the shots are just you running around doing what amounts to random shit. It's less a vlog, and more a trailer for a student-film, which I guess is fine, but it's not what I signed on for, and it's not what the last 26 entries have set me up for. Maybe it's just me, though.


First off, I think it's kinda interesting that you'd've been happier without a video! That's like, the opposite of what I expected. Next, yeah, it would have been nice to hear Jay speak. For me, however, having him not speak didn't take anything away... but that's just me. I also don't see how the previous season didn't set you up for text-on-video, haha! That was one of the main techniques. Having him suddenly switch to voice-over would have been... awkward, especially there's really no other reason for him to talk. He's not interacting with anyone. He's alone.

Anyways, they may be playing off their strengths. I don't get the impression that they're trained voice actors ba ha ha . This is more like the first six minutes of a student film than a trailer, I think.

I will say again, I think it strengthened this video that they didn't have any jump-scares. (I admit I found the first second of the video furiously suspenseful, and the pulsing-heartbeat TV was creepingly, subtly terrifying.)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:05 pm
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Dray
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


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Everybody keeps throwing around 'filler' for this entry, but I don't feel that way at all.

In fact, I really enjoyed how the entry is paced: the freaky, uncertain beginning lends itself well to the past season. The appearance of 'Entry #27' later on, after Jay begins to set up the exposition, gives a thrill of "AW YEAH IT'S BACK BB~!"

The reveal that he doesn't remember the last seven months puts a twist on what we had all been expecting, (or at least, what many of us had been expecting) and gives solid direction from whence they can move forward, while leaving a lot of things open, and keeping with the spirit of the ambiguous 'ask questions first, then ask more questions later' spirit of the series.

Each shot seems well-considered and helps to set an atmosphere for the next few entries.

We get to see Jay's reaction to this revelation. Exhaustion, uncertainty, inability to really come up with anything that will really fix the bind that he's in, and absolutely, positively, nowhere that he can go to for backup that he can trust... I don't know if you guys aren't seeing it, or if I'm reading too much into what I watched, but everything about how Jay!Actor is acting suggests, "well... fuck. What now. Guess.... guess I'll just lay low until I can figure out where the hell I can even go from here."

Also, I know that they used it already, but I find it pretty cool that they actually went to the trouble to film this in a hotel. That is a step further than a lot of people would go. Smile It's pretty cool.

I know that the Operator is lurking on the fringes, as he's always been; the beginning with the horrid noises and malfunctioning TV hint that shit has gone down, and recently (if the TTA dumps on twitter don't already testify to that!) It's not that we need to be spotting Slendy here. There is more intention in this video than there was in the first few videos of last season.

That intention is not "HEY GUYS LOOK WHAT I FOUND!"

It's more along the lines of, "Gather around and let me tell you a story." Like folks have said, it's an introduction. Re-immersion is important after a long pause. This entry is all about getting us back into the head space of worry and concern and waiting for the next spat of shit to hit the fan. I don't see why it's necessary for it to be any different from that.



---------


And now to address the newer posts that have come up while I was typing!

Gentleman wrote:
I have posed several specific worries, the videos lack of Slender-man and over-all in-feasibility, the amount of panning shots that simply didn't need to be there, and silence from Jay. I've asked time and time again for someone to explain to me the significance of this video, but I have yet to receive an answer, most preferring instead to tell me to calm down and it's okay, which leads me to believe that there really is no significance.


Explain to me why the Operator needs to be present in the first entry of the season. Please note that only in the first few episodes do we get many shots of the Operator, and you yourself were suggesting that the creators are going to make better movies this season than the last season. Part of that is working on building up suspense; the fact that you are being impatient does not count as a valid point as to why the Operator should be present in this post.

Why is this infeasible? Jay has had missing time on many occasions, as has Alex. Given that Jay's last intention where we left him off was to find Alex, I find it extremely feasible that, when combined with the Operator, this kind of loss of time is possible. Note also that this sets the tone for potential Operator encounters to be revealed over time. It's not that they have axed the character, it's just that they leave us wondering "Oh god, where is he and what has he done to leave Jay this way?"

Why are the panning shots unnecessary? I find that they set the tone, and that they may be useful in getting into the mindspace of Jay, which at this moment pretty much is "..."

Do you mean 'silence from Jay' as in 'silence over the past seven months'? Remember that Jay has never been especially communicative with us as an audience (hell, TTA has been more willing to engage watchers/commenters than Jay!) so this is in character for him. Jay told us specifically that he was not going to be in contact with us; part of his silence could be that he has been unable to get on a computer with which connect, or that he didn't want to. That's part of the mystery.

As for the significance of this video, please see above your quote, there. That's what I'm taking away from it. Others mileage may vary. If you don't get anything from this, that's okay. There may be no significance from this video for you if what you're looking for is a series heavy on Operator sightings and scares. But I do get the impression that they are leading up to something tragic, and I have faith that they won't disappoint based upon past experiences of watching them build up to some very epic episodes.

Gentleman wrote:
This isn't the beginning anymore, folks. There are dozens of series out of there, and at least a handful of them deserve serious attention. I owe MH a certain loyalty for introducing me to this medium, but I won't give them anymore of a free pass than I would every other beginner series, in fact I will give them less. Because anything more would be a discredit to the excellent work they have already done.


On the other hand, constructive criticism is not the same as posting angrily about how you feel that your time was wasted. That's a reaction that they don't deserve, if you are a loyal fan. The difference between constructive criticism and outright ranting, I think, is going in with a certain level of maturity; deciding to balance the good and the bad, and looking for points on either side. Constructive criticism includes, also, analyzing yourself, your expectations, and what messages you were hoping to get from a work. Then, you put those out there to measure up with what other people are getting from it. If the work didn't meet with your expectations on X, Y, and Z points, you specify with as much coherent detail as possible how you think it could have been met, and what could be done in the future.

Then, the artist, because they are the ones in control, decide what to take and what to leave behind. It's when people who consume a work feel entitled to having their view shared over that of the artist that ideas begin to break down and the narrative vision of the artist begins to suffer. A healthy balance makes things the best; right now I think that you're misinterpreting what you want and expect as what is best for the series, which is probably where the frustration is coming from.

Gentleman wrote:
What happened is a great question. It's a question I would have loved to see something about. But it's been 7 months and Jay looks no worse for wear than he did back in Entry 26. It's full of shots of him driving and looking at the camera, but they opted to stick with text rather than have him speak. To me, this was distracting. If he had spoken, it would have been a wholly different video. I could analyze and see if his demeanor was different from the last time we saw him, but the thing is, the last time we saw him he was a flat character. Jay hasn't been developed well enough for me to care about his 7 month amnesia. I care about Alex as a character, since we've seen so much more of him, but the others just aren't to that point yet. Again, I might just be jaded and spoiled by character-driven blogs such as the aforementioned EMH and SFA.


You know, you do have a point! I feel like if they had had Jay speak (And now I understand what you mean about him being silent, hee!) it would have been a neat book-end from #26 where he addressed the camera directly. But on the other hand, Jay's in a shitty situation, and what is he going to say? "I.... don't remember anything." The NARM potential there is astronomical, man. I think that taking the safe road of using the text was ultimately a better decision, despite the fact that linking the end of one season to the beginning of the next being an interesting choice. I also feel that Jay was in a better place when he was speaking to us in #26. Contrasting that with his silence now reinforces the idea that he probably feels like an idiot for having made his choice.

I want to think that there is going to be more development of Jay as we get to look back at him at what happens. But him literally being the narrator for this series makes me feel that him being a flat sort of characters is interesting. There's a push and pull between Jay being an unreliable narrator, and sounding so calm and factual that you just start to take what he has to say as word-of-god. Giving him a specific view-point would limit some of that contrast, I feel.

Gentleman wrote:
That being said, I'm not here to start drama. I'm here for discussion. I don't take too terribly kindly to being cussed out, called names, or insulted. If you don't like what I have to say, that's fine. But I would prefer to keep the conversation civil, and not let any of esteemed participants of this forum degenerate to ad-hominem attacks. It reflects poorly on all of us.


Pfa ha hahaha. Starting off civilly will help to generate civil conversation. We do take from the tone of an OP, and yours was definitely a notch or ten over 'just wanted to discuss the findings'. But hey, hope that this post helps in the generating of conversation. It's definitely WALL OF TEXT enough!

Gentleman wrote:
Why would I do this? Because it feels more immersive to me. Inserting the text into the video is a great narrative technique, and that's the whole problem: It makes me feel like I'm watching a movie, which reminds me that none of this is real, and that combined with the lack of any real scare-points diminishes my enjoyment immensely. It breaks flow to throw the text up in the middle of a bunch of supposedly candid shots, especially when the shots are just you running around doing what amounts to random shit. It's less a vlog, and more a trailer for a student-film, which I guess is fine, but it's not what I signed on for, and it's not what the last 26 entries have set me up for. Maybe it's just me, though.


Yes... but this isn't EMH. It's Marble Hornets. To change the format so much would not stay true to the series' format. Jay did not often post pics on his twitter account. To do so now seems as though it would be trite; I don't think that I would get the same feeling of at-a-loss that I do, now, from a video.

Having the text up in #27 ties it in with #26 and a few other entries. I don't see how it breaks from the rest of the series in that way that you're describing. Did you rewatch the earlier videos before watching #27? It might be time to do that again if it's been seven months since you watched the earlier videos?

I feel like MH is trying to grow up a little, this season. And I think that we need to allow them some leg room to do that... in the mean time EMH is running full tilt in just the direction that you seem interested in; maybe transferring some of your attention to them will help to ease your grief, here?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:09 pm
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ellocia
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I think the thing he throws at 1:56 might be a cell phone and the phone hits the pill bottle.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:17 pm
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Leina.
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I wonder when the next update will be...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:18 pm
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Dray
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Safe estimate? Two weeks, give or take. Smile

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:21 pm
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Gentleman Caller
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Dray, as a mark towards civility, I would like to point out that I've never held any pretensions that I was being civil towards the creators of Marble Hornets. Rather, I was speaking more of insulting each other, here, on this forum, when that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. You don't see me calling any of you delightful ladies and gents stupid and telling you that your ideas are silly simply because they do not align with mine. I have not once made a remark about the person behind the opinions in this discussion, opting instead to address the opinions themselves. I ask only that that same courtesy be afforded not only to me, but to everyone else on this forum. That, is perhaps civility. I regrettably don't have time at the moment to address the rest of your respectably large post, but will do so at my earliest convenience Wink

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:24 pm
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Arison
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For me, Jay's lack of speaking adds to his character. He has plenty of opportunity to speak in the video, but doesn't; this isn't new for him. He has ample opportunity for completely freaking out and yelling in numerous entries, but refrains from doing so. In the segment where Jay gets into the car, sets the camera down, and then just looks at the camera... you can tell he doesn't know what the fuck is going on. The only time he talks when addressing us, as an audience, is in Entry 26 (and that was part of what made that entry so special for me), whereas every other time, he addresses us through text.

This time, he's so shocked he has no words; the text that addresses us is all edited in after the footage was taken. After the fact. When he's just woken up not knowing where he is and with seven months missing from his memory? That's pretty frightening. Other people have said that he's shellshocked, which I think is appropriate. Only after the fact, when he's compiled and is editing footage, can he speak of these events, and only through text.

Then again, maybe I'm just reading too much into character.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:25 pm
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Mitternacht
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Hmmm, I have to admit that I feel sort of the way GC does, though not quite as passionately.

If I may attempt to transcribe the thought, it seems to me as if people are accepting this as setup and build-up. For me, the previous tweets and couple pics were filled with anticipation and build-up. I was sort of expecting that, when they moved to video again, it would capitalize on that. Instead, it felt as if it should have been in place of the anticipation I already had.

I've been reading and feeling for a week or two now that it's going to be a mountain. The basic dialogue here, however, seems to read:

"It's a mountain!"

"But, it's a crappy hill!"

"Chill the fuck out, dude. Mountains are coming!"

Pardon my language - I'm trying to simulate the tone as concisely as possible. Under these circumstances, he is simply a fan who has built this up to be epic, and it's not epic, yet. Is he caustic? Yes, but not to you...so perhaps everyone should calm down a bit.

You say nobody made him watch it, but nobody made you respond. Try not to devalue someone else simply because what they value (and to what extent, in this case) differs from you. Simple sarcasm does not communicate intelligence, even though you possess it.

------

What I really did like - that first shot with the hand in front of the flickering monitor. It really took advantage of that blind feeling at the beginning, and was combined well with the sounds. I'm not sure what the clicking was until the text began, but it became a touch annoying. I think it might have been more tastefully employed in a smaller dose, just like the inability to really see at the beginning.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:32 pm
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awakeasaurusrex
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Dray wrote:
Safe estimate? Two weeks, give or take. Smile

And there's good odds TTA will give us something to chew on in the next few days.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:34 pm
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TokyoVigilanteX
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I'd imagine the major improvement for the next segment/season/cycle/part/portion/slice/whatever of MH will just be an overall improvement of in the writing and pacing. I don't expect fancy camera work and emotional monologues from a low-fi, Youtube based paranormal investigation drama. I expect more emphasis put on the story and more creative ways of relaying that story. If you factor in the gradual improvement of that from Entry #1-#26, the crew admitting that they stretched the original season farther then they intended and promises of no more filler, then we're in for a leaner, better paced, more evenly plotted story.

The presence of the fish-eyed strap-cam, the new setting, and the new circumstances, point at something that will overall be creative, fresh, and unpredictable.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:37 pm
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TheNightmareComplex
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Gentleman Caller wrote:
Dray, as a mark towards civility, I would like to point out that I've never held any pretensions that I was being civil towards the creators of Marble Hornets. Rather, I was speaking more of insulting each other, here, on this forum, when that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. You don't see me calling any of you delightful ladies and gents stupid and telling you that your ideas are silly simply because they do not align with mine. I have not once made a remark about the person behind the opinions in this discussion, opting instead to address the opinions themselves. I ask only that that same courtesy be afforded not only to me, but to everyone else on this forum. That, is perhaps civility. I regrettably don't have time at the moment to address the rest of your respectably large post, but will do so at my earliest convenience Wink


Right on, douche.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:40 pm
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Coded
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Hey MH fans. I'm new here, but a long time fan of Marble Hornets.

Anyway, I think I'm seeing Slender Man. If you pause at 6:05, it looks like something is standing there beside the balcony, and kind of hidden in the trees.

But maybe it's my eyes playing tricks on me.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:49 pm
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slendercat
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My thoughts on the video, in no particular order:

The setup here reeks of TTA for me. All of it. In our "cold opening" (if we're going to use television terms, then let's do it) we have our strange camera things going on, the pulsing heartbeat sound from the television, the loud noise from the alarm... Very much seems that it's something that TTA would do in one of his videos. But it's more than that. I actually agree with Gentleman Caller that the scenario is straight out of classic television, that it's something that's been used and used and overused. But that, too, seems like something that TTA would do. It reminds me of the way that TTA would dump random footage into the middle of his videos. It makes me feel as if TTA was responsible for the amnesia, though I couldn't prove any of it. Just a feeling.

I felt a little upset at the end of my first viewing, honestly, because I wanted more. It's been seven whole months and I want answers! But saying it like that makes me feel like a little kid demanding a huge bowl of ice cream just because all the vegetables got eaten. Ice cream does not magically become better for you just because of the vegetables. A little bit of ice cream is fine, though, and I feel like that's what I got. I'd rather have it as a surprise anyway.

Subsequent viewings made me a little more excited. I think after so many of the other slenderseries I forgot what Marble Hornets had a different style from the rest of the pack. It was never as immersive as EMH and it didn't aim to be. The characters always reacted... well... without reaction. (Anyone remember when Jay was walking through the house in that loop, and how he didn't say anything the entire time and only started to breathe a little more heavily and move a little faster? Yeah, me too. Or when Alex saw Slendy in entry 26? I'll just leave it at that.) In the context of that style, this is exactly the feeling.

There were a lot of quiet, subtle callbacks to "season one" in this video. We had some really TTA-ish surroundings in the opening. We had the pills, from out of nowhere. Jay making sure the camera is on him at all times, just like he (and Alex) did all through season one, like a reflex. There's the immediate spelling out of the premise, like in the introduction to season one.

I think my favorite part of the whole video was that ending scene though. Jay walks up to a window and films outside, as in entry #1... but instead of night, it's bright and sunny daylight. Instead of nearly giving off the feeling of being filmed in black and white, it's full of bright colors. Instead of just panning in one direction, we scan everywhere... And instead of immediately focusing on Slendy, he's nowhere to be seen, at least not clearly... but we know he could be anywhere...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:59 pm
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