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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Flynn Lives
[FILM] Reviews (spoilers)
Moderators: enaxor, Euchre, spaceboy, thebruce
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thebruceModerator
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

 		Well, especially given the blatantly obvious scene where
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
you don't actually see Tron get killed. That kind of cut is so overused in film, hehe

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:36 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: Film Reviews
Full storyline
OU812 wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The buddy I went with (as big a fan as all of us, but was working hard core all year) had no idea that Rinzler was Tron until the end.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Really? I recognized Bruce Boxleitner's voice right away. And I thought they made a big deal about it when TRON first started to use two identity discs. Of course, I also had all the speculation on this forum to clue me in to look for things like that...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:39 pm
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Uwila
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Joined: 23 Aug 2009
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Location: lost in my own universe

 		So super excited to not only be "in" the movie, but to get credit in the Thank Yous at the end. So awesome to be part of the (Hall H)/ Arena scenes they recorded at SDCC.

Loved TL. Cannot wait to go and see it again. Very Happy

#FlynnLives

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:46 pm
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thebruceModerator
Dances With Wikis


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Uwila wrote:
So super excited to not only be "in" the movie, but to get credit in the Thank Yous at the end. So awesome to be part of the (Hall H)/ Arena scenes they recorded at SDCC.

Aw crap, forgot to actually check for community shout-outs in the credits, and I stayed to the very end. haha
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:12 pm
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Broklynite
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Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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Spoiler (Rollover to View):
1. I was pissed off about some butthead who announced spoiler-free in the forums about having played the game and confirming Rinzler as Tron. Not cool.

2. Flynn was boyish in the first movie. Now he keeps saying all the silly zen stuff, etc. Remember that before he disappeared, he had married, had a kid, runu this megacorporation. He was still a good man, but a lot of his childish irresponsibility had left him. This was too much Dude, and I was annoyed about it.

3. My biggest issue was the whole invasion. First off, how the hell are you going to fit an army through the laser? Even if you did- lightcycles and such won't work in the real world. They would be attacking us using frisbees. Does anyone else find this a tad silly? I mean, it's a big reveal, but it's a huge plot hole. Let Clu come through, who cares? Bullets travel faster, and more accurately than frisbees.

4. What was the point of the ISOs? There is one in the movie, and there's nothing too special about her- she may as well have just been any other program. There was no purpose for the ISO sub-plot, which was only barely present anyway. It was interesting, but ultimately a waste of time.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:18 pm
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madopal
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: Chicago, IL

 		Re: Film Reviews
Full storyline
Shad0 wrote:
madopal wrote:
anyone else wish Jeff Bridges played Flynn a bit more as Flynn and a little less as The Dude?

How long has it been since you've watched the first TRON? I felt those lines were the original boyish Kevin Flynn peeking through the new exterior he'd developed over those many many many years on the Grid.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I've seen the movie over 100 times, and I can quote it at will from memory. Flynn the hacker would definitely never have said "You're harshing my Zen, man." That's totally Dude-speak. Flynn's dialog was witty, zingy, and very cool. He was the proto-hacker. Constantly in trouble, constantly talking his way out.

I do give them some slack for the fact that this is CLEARLY an older Flynn, and I know there was a lot of groundwork laid for Flynn's more liberal side, but I felt like he lost almost all of his edge, and he became more The Dude and less the flirty guy who looked at Yori and said (with a grin) "So, nice lookin' ship you got here" to Tron.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:37 pm
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madopal
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Broklynite wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
2. Flynn was boyish in the first movie. Now he keeps saying all the silly zen stuff, etc. Remember that before he disappeared, he had married, had a kid, runu this megacorporation. He was still a good man, but a lot of his childish irresponsibility had left him. This was too much Dude, and I was annoyed about it.


See my point in the message above, I totally agree.

Broklynite wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
3. My biggest issue was the whole invasion. First off, how the hell are you going to fit an army through the laser? Even if you did- lightcycles and such won't work in the real world. They would be attacking us using frisbees. Does anyone else find this a tad silly? I mean, it's a big reveal, but it's a huge plot hole. Let Clu come through, who cares? Bullets travel faster, and more accurately than frisbees.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I kinda saw it like Khan from Star Trek. Think of it this way (and the way I look at the ISOs, so combining your #4 as well here)...if we consider normally evolved humans to be rolled D&D characters, it's possible to have guys walking around rolling the occasional natural 18, but it's very rare. With programs, that stuff can be architected so that you'll have beings with max human stats just by creating them in the digital world first. Sure, they have to use the normal rules (they can be killed), but who's to say they won't be stronger/faster/smarter than 99% of the humans out there. I took that from when Flynn was explaining why CLU going through was bad...he strived towards perfection, and he was programmed to be amazing.

Now, the army, sure....maybe you could only send N through at a time, but even slowly, an army of dedicated warriors pouring from Flynn's Arcade...first they secure the arcade, then they start organizing, and then they spread from there. It might take time, but it'd be bad.

And the ISOs are just a way to create unique beings out of nothing. Granted, programs are that, but they'd be special purpose. One wonders how different they'd be if they manifested in the real world. And who knows whether or not there's something unique to their biology when they cross over. They basically were emergent complexity, so they may not even be human, they just might appear that way. I'm guessing Ed Jr. will figure that out somehow, if that's what they're planning for the next one.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:47 pm
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Broklynite
Entrenched

Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 784
madopal wrote:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
.if we consider normally evolved humans to be rolled D&D characters, it's possible to have guys walking around rolling the occasional natural 18, but it's very rare. With programs, that stuff can be architected so that you'll have beings with max human stats just by creating them in the digital world first.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
This whole conversation is just becoming non-stop spoilers, isn't it? Heh. Anyway, I would agree with you, except- Clu can't create programs. He can change them, but the explanation there is vague. It seems clear that he can change the alliances, but not the....quality of the program. So, Rinzler was so deadly because Tron was so deadly- he just had his alliance changed. Most run of the mill programs were going to be about as good at whatever as the run of the mill person. Remember too that Flynn had a limit to the number of warriors he had. Even assuming that they came through in batches, it is a bottleneck which could easily be destroyed with, Oh I dunno- a bomb of some sort. Yea, the population, according to the game, was 14 million of something. If the US Army cannot stop an army of 14 million people armed with frisbees coming through a tight bottleneck, we deserve to lose.

Now, if Clu were able to exert power over the real world, maybe in a weird way like Flynn has power over the virtual world, I could maybe see it. Speaking of which- after 1000 years Flynn really never bothered to learn or train his powers? I know it seems that way, but if he is as powerful as he ought to be, he should have been able to walk over Clu by this point.

Also, what kind of idiot sets up so that he has to be back at the portal within 8 hours or else be stuck there for the next thousand years? We know that it is possible to communicate witht he outside world via the grid, as well as the toehr way around. And how hard would it be to set up some sort of emergency laser trigger? And why was he beamed in in the middle of the city, but to beam out he had to go to the middle of nowhere? That distance was incredible


PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:05 pm
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grifta67
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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Location: San Francisco, CA

 		Quick tidbit question: was the classic original Tron theme worked into the soundtrack anywhere? I was listening for it but never heard it. Kind of bummed, I hate when long-term sequels or remakes don't include their original iconic music somewhere.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:05 pm
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madopal
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Chicago, IL
Broklynite wrote:
madopal wrote:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
.if we consider normally evolved humans to be rolled D&D characters, it's possible to have guys walking around rolling the occasional natural 18, but it's very rare. With programs, that stuff can be architected so that you'll have beings with max human stats just by creating them in the digital world first.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
This whole conversation is just becoming non-stop spoilers, isn't it? Heh. Anyway, I would agree with you, except- Clu can't create programs. He can change them, but the explanation there is vague. It seems clear that he can change the alliances, but not the....quality of the program. So, Rinzler was so deadly because Tron was so deadly- he just had his alliance changed. Most run of the mill programs were going to be about as good at whatever as the run of the mill person. Remember too that Flynn had a limit to the number of warriors he had. Even assuming that they came through in batches, it is a bottleneck which could easily be destroyed with, Oh I dunno- a bomb of some sort. Yea, the population, according to the game, was 14 million of something. If the US Army cannot stop an army of 14 million people armed with frisbees coming through a tight bottleneck, we deserve to lose.

Now, if Clu were able to exert power over the real world, maybe in a weird way like Flynn has power over the virtual world, I could maybe see it. Speaking of which- after 1000 years Flynn really never bothered to learn or train his powers? I know it seems that way, but if he is as powerful as he ought to be, he should have been able to walk over Clu by this point.

Also, what kind of idiot sets up so that he has to be back at the portal within 8 hours or else be stuck there for the next thousand years? We know that it is possible to communicate witht he outside world via the grid, as well as the toehr way around. And how hard would it be to set up some sort of emergency laser trigger? And why was he beamed in in the middle of the city, but to beam out he had to go to the middle of nowhere? That distance was incredible


More spoilerific discussion....we should just start a thread saying WARNING: SPOILERS!!!
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
So, I agree, there are some logistical problems in bringing people through. But a) I'm working off of the game a bit here, and as there seemed to be the ability to upgrade programs, that's why Flynn/Quorra said "he can't make programs, he can only alter them." So he was using the virus ISO code to make them into warriors. Granted, it might just be numbers, but 14 million of an army is still nothing to cough at. Also, we really don't know what inanimate objects he could send through. After all, it was established that clothes go through...so if he could replicate weapons...it wouldn't take long to make a base camp with a few hundred armed folks, then not only keep Flynn's as a point, but perhaps make more lasers to transfer more out. Point is, if you have intelligence, technology, and numbers, you could easily move in stealth until you are ready. They definitely wouldn't just pour out and charge. I think CLU was programmed better than that. Gather strength, plan, and then attack. So it might be ham handed in the reveal, but it's at least plausible.

Now Flynn's laser design trappings aside, my biggest problem was what you keyed in on: user power. It seems like either a) Flynn kneecapped users in his system, or b) the writers hated it. In the first movie, Flynn could control life or death just by waving his hands. They had him doing more hacking here, but he still never exhibited any amazing power. I had hoped he was doing that at the end, but it was just that program recall with CLU. Even his hacking kinda sucked, with him having to bop a guard on the head after hacking him. I really wanted more Sam/Kevin user power going on.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:17 pm
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madopal
Unfettered


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Chicago, IL
grifta67 wrote:
Quick tidbit question: was the classic original Tron theme worked into the soundtrack anywhere? I was listening for it but never heard it. Kind of bummed, I hate when long-term sequels or remakes don't include their original iconic music somewhere.


I haven't heard it at all. I think there might have been some authentic sound effects in there (no classic Recognizer sounds, though), as the original sound designer was credited, but they definitely stayed away from too much in sound, music, or design from the original. I had hoped maybe an original program would be in there with a circuit suit or something, but I didn't see anything. Flynn's white light cycle was the only semi-throwback there was.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:18 pm
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Bruceoite
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010
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 		So madopal, did you go to the Chicago screening? Any swag? I am going to watch it with my wife at Navy Pier next week.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:01 pm
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elziard
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Joined: 19 May 2010
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Spoiler (Rollover to View):
was anyone else curious about CLU's fascination with the tangible objects in Flynn's pad?
my take-away from that scene and his army speech:
i feel the pad scene was humbling for him, and established his inability to comprehend—at least not yet—what is on the other side of the beam.

i think the argument on "how" he can send an army through is missing this point. he has no idea so he's bringing an army. world-dominating emperors through human history have failed following this same path. regardless of what he brings, he could still succeed in changing/threatening the real world.

anyone else have thoughts on this? they sure took awhile in that scene. too long if insignificant.

also i found it profound how he painted Flynn as being the bad guy to his army. truth—albeit twisted—but understandable. the pursuit for perfection only to be shut out of Flynn's world and life: how is Flynn's world not attractive? more so, how is that not maddening and lust-worthy?

additionally, i must agree on the thin-skinned and questionable ISO plotline. i feel this should be abandoned or seriously thought out in sequels. my initial thought while watching: this is the Tron universe's Midi-chlorians


PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:23 pm
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thename
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Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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 		Re: Film Reviews
Full storyline
madopal wrote:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I've seen the movie over 100 times, and I can quote it at will from memory. Flynn the hacker would definitely never have said "You're harshing my Zen, man." That's totally Dude-speak. Flynn's dialog was witty, zingy, and very cool. He was the proto-hacker. Constantly in trouble, constantly talking his way out.

I do give them some slack for the fact that this is CLEARLY an older Flynn, and I know there was a lot of groundwork laid for Flynn's more liberal side, but I felt like he lost almost all of his edge, and he became more The Dude and less the flirty guy who looked at Yori and said (with a grin) "So, nice lookin' ship you got here" to Tron.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
This was Flynn living in the Grid and forced to essentially do nothing for ... how many years did we decide it was? Seemed like a very rational evolution from the witty, rash kid-hacker to the necessarily passive, patient guru. That quick-tongued kid shows up at various times (your "harshing my Zen" line and the constant "man!" were very much Flynn of '82) and gratifyingly so. The callback to The Dude was only in moments and just an added layer. But his advocacy of doing nothing and thereby affecting outcomes is very not Dude. The Dude did nothing and things happened around him. Flynn did nothing and caused things to happen. I think if The Dude had been played by any other actor these comparisons wouldn't be made.

And I, for one, loved the Tao te Grid element.


Edit: As if on cue I read this tidbit (no real spoilers in the link but be warned of talking about the movie).

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:34 pm
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catherwood-offline
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thebruce wrote:
To me, this is becoming the deciding point on whether I see a movie in 3D or not. If I haven't looked up the 3D production process used in a movie, then if the trailer to me looks to be post-production 3D, I shake my fist at the creative director!
Again I pose Avatar as a wonderful example of proper 3D, well done. Filmed completely with 3D cameras, and CG rendered in the same 3D environment.

ditto.
The post-processed 3D glommed onto the recent "Alice in Wonderland" felt like looking thru those ViewMaster Reel viewers. Everything had a pop-up book flatness to it, like a diorama. Now, for an Alice story, it *kinda* worked, but it was very disappointing. I think after "Clash of the Titans", people are becoming wise to the process. (Even without the flatness and fakery, I've read that the image itself is only half as bright as the original, making some scenes too dim to register.)

And I was expecting Avatar to also use that "Oz" mentality, using the 3D only for the "virtual" experience of Pandora. The first use of 3D in the locker room (i think it was) made me nauseous, having too much depth of field in focus. Someone pointed out to me that our eyes change focus but a 3D film has only one focus point, so if you are not looking at what *they* want you to look at, the focus doesn't match the depth your eye expects.

sorry for drifting off topic. I might not get to see T:L until next weekend, but I'm definitely holding out for the IMAX 3D experience.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:48 pm
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