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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Flynn Lives
[FILM] Reviews (spoilers)
Moderators: enaxor, Euchre, spaceboy, thebruce
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thebruceModerator
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario
madopal wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Now Flynn's laser design trappings aside, my biggest problem was what you keyed in on: user power. It seems like either a) Flynn kneecapped users in his system, or b) the writers hated it. In the first movie, Flynn could control life or death just by waving his hands. They had him doing more hacking here, but he still never exhibited any amazing power. I had hoped he was doing that at the end, but it was just that program recall with CLU. Even his hacking kinda sucked, with him having to bop a guard on the head after hacking him. I really wanted more Sam/Kevin user power going on.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I sort of saw Flynn's seemingly reduced power, or at least more interactive than hand-wavey, due to the work and customizations Clu had done to the system as he built it. Just like Flynn was winging it with the relatively foreign ISO programming in healing Quorra, I saw his handicapped god-like abilities to be the effect of him basically losing a sort of control on Clu's construction. He still had full ability to do stuff, much like Neo in the Matrix, but no longer as natural and inherent as it used to be. Clu was effectively pushing him out, and doing a decent job at it.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:58 pm
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chulo333
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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 		Loved the movie!

And a friend who doesn't know much about Tron came with me and he loved it as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:18 pm
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wslyr
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 		Question:
Anything after the credits?
I'm going to watch TL tomorrow (when it comes out over here) with a couple of friends, most of who don't know about Tron, so they are unlikely to sit through the credits. But if there's something at the end, I might make them.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:39 pm
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thebruceModerator
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 		I stayed to the end but saw nothing. I wasn't scanning for gems in the credits though
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:41 pm
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madopal
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 		I stayed until the end and watched both the credits and for anything after. I saw nothing, but I also missed the shout out to Hall H somehow.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:30 pm
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Beef2Taco
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Joined: 13 Mar 2010
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madopal wrote:
I stayed until the end and watched both the credits and for anything after. I saw nothing, but I also missed the shout out to Hall H somehow.


I was like HALL H represent when I saw the title go by. It was more towards the end.


I really had a great time seeing Tron last night. I can't wait to see it again, with better seatings. After waiting all this time, I wasn't disappointed. I will just say this movie really rocked, and I love the Father/Son moments. Quorra of course was really adorable. If there were only more girls like her in this world Smile

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:33 pm
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what0080
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Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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Beef2Taco wrote:
madopal wrote:
I stayed until the end and watched both the credits and for anything after. I saw nothing, but I also missed the shout out to Hall H somehow.


I was like HALL H represent when I saw the title go by. It was more towards the end.


I really had a great time seeing Tron last night. I can't wait to see it again, with better seatings. After waiting all this time, I wasn't disappointed. I will just say this movie really rocked, and I love the Father/Son moments. Quorra of course was really adorable. If there were only more girls like her in this world Smile


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Well...there is at least one more like her in the world...now...
Wink

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:46 pm
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Cchinese Pirate
Boot


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 27

 		Isos, User power and other Spoilery Discussion
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Okay, Iso's as I see them...

flynn goes into the grid... after experiencing the first film, and having a taste of his god like abilities in the digital world, He goes in, thinking he has a testing ground with which to make an Ideal world.. his "Epcot world of the future" so to speak... He controls and designs every aspect with a distinct vision of perfection in mind... this vision is imprinted on Clu, who's status as a "Basic" makes him unable to adapt, change, or modify that vision.

The Iso's arrive spontaneously... they are beyond flynn, Pure Chaos theroem... and with them and their random complexities, come the ability to grow, learn, change... (Flynn describes their "curious nature", and naivety... they are an embodiment of "real life" manifesting on the grid, DNA and everything) The Iso's remind him that "perfection isn't "order" but the chaos that is the unpredictability of the human condition... Something he cannot control and he is humbled by it...

His "GodLike" powers to control mean nothing in comparison, it was just escapism... for that matter I imagine it undid his reputation amongst the citizens of the grid... ("Tyranny of the Users") He was now not all knowing and all powerful, their presence empowers the programs to feel that there are things beyond the User, and therefore a user can be defeated, or stopped...

the presence of the iso's are what set off Clu... Unable to adapt or evolve, he is now the bastard stepchild not only to Sam Flynn, but now to these Iso's.

Way better than Midichlorians... Iso's are a full fledged McGuffin, rather than a random side note. (of course very undeveloped in the film, but plenty of hints at potential... and more hints if you got the "story" from game (ugh) and read the comic book prequel... But lots of story potential in my opinion...)

as I mentioned in an earlier post... I was totally expecting a STNG-Holodeck-esque twist where Clu Makes it through the lazer but cannot maintain himself in the real world because he has no DNA structure, whereas an Iso like Quorra can... Perhaps in a sequel...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

another random thought, Quorra has Kevin's identity disk... does this mean she carries with her come of Kevin's memory? or perhaps is that what is on the chip aroung Sam's Neck?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tron corruption... Did clu take away one of his Identity disks away from rinzler in the free fall fight? or just the Light Jet Baton?




PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:59 pm
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thebruceModerator
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 		Just a side thought...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The ISOs are essentially the topic of truly Artificial Intelligence, and the discussion of what constitutes "Life". In Halo, it's 'Dumb' vs 'Smart' AIs. I like this kind of exploration - what makes us human? and what constitutes Life, as we consider as valuable as humanity?

ISOs are essentially still emulations of humanity as per the programming set up in 'The Grid', and it was the digitizer that, typical of science fiction fastastical technology leaps, is able to digitize physical matter into electronic form, and vice versa. In which case, if a completely virtual program is complex enough to somehow remain viable in a physical organic matter form, then the digitizer could re-sequence the entity as such.

This is why Clu wanted Flynn's disc - it contained the physical makeup for his 'user' form that would allow Clu the ability to take human form in the real world. Without the disc, Clu wouldn't be viable as an organic life form.

The ISOs however are programs complex enough in and of themselves that they would be viable when converted to organic form. Ultimately, the human emulation that took shape from the system itself was "perfect" enough to survive even as an organic entity. Thus, no disc required, re-imaging from the machine would effectively 'create' a new life form.

Basically, what Kevin did to heal the ISO (locate and purge the faulty code) is precisely what The Grid did in producing the ISOs - remove the (apparently) faults that exist in the 'human being' so that it is effectively a physically 'perfect' life form.

Intriguing.
Way out in left field, but poses lots of philosophical and ethical questions... or as Alan put it, changes the face of science, medicine, even religion. =P

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:54 pm
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Cchinese Pirate
Boot


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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 		I wonder if Quorra Dreams of Electric Sheep...?

Wink

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:58 pm
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PFloyd
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Joined: 23 Oct 2010
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 		Loved it. Loved it. Loved it.

Must see again. But not in IMAX. Screen was too big (saw it at a REAL IMAX theater). Need a smaller screen. Smile

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:30 am
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cinderbike
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PFloyd wrote:
Loved it. Loved it. Loved it.

Must see again. But not in IMAX. Screen was too big (saw it at a REAL IMAX theater). Need a smaller screen. Smile


There is no such thing as TOO big!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:05 am
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EuchreModerator
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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 		Since we are going all spoilerific...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Did you all not notice when Kevin 'heals' Quorra by removing the damaged code, the code segment itself becomes another sort of life form and flutters away? The ISO code is like DNA, it is powerful and capable of fairly random but functional mutations. This isn't midichlorians diminishing an intangible Force to a blood test, this is more like saying the Force causes midichlorians to emerge. This isn't just random fantasy BS either, this is actually the sort of thing that ever more complex code systems are expected to create at some point. Its even one suggested source of the 'singularity', where AI will emerge as self-aware, self-sufficient, and beyond our comprehension or control.

I think the ISO idea is brilliant, and to have the idea 'developed' more to 'explain it' would be as bad as the classic scientist in the white coat stepping out to explain everything. That even goes against Kevin's assertion that their code is beyond his comprehension. If it can be explained away in the film within the plot, how magnificent and world changing can the ISOs really be?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:51 am
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Cchinese Pirate
Boot


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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 		agreed... dont want to explain it away... it needs to be integrated into the story telling... just looking for more time spent on the implication of spontaneously evolving AI... and great material for future stories...

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:52 am
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PFloyd
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cinderbike wrote:


There is no such thing as TOO big!


Well, yes and no (in my opinion). Keep in mind I saw this on a REAL IMAX screen, not the fake smaller IMAX screens that some movieplexes have been converting to recently.

Unless a film is shot specifically with IMAX screens in mind, it can be very distracting to have the subject of a scene on the left side of the screen talking to someone on the right side, but the person on the right is out of your peripheral vision so you can not see their reaction to what the person is saying without switching your focal point. (I thankfully saw Charlie and the Chocolate Factory in a regular movie theater first before seeing it in a DOMED IMAX theater in San Jose years ago...boy that was a strange experience!) If a movie is filmed specifically with IMAX in mind, then they'd take that into consideration, altho this may not lend itself artistically to what needs to be created.

Smaller IMAX screens may handle this problem (as I am defining it for me) better. I know a regular movieplex screen would because the screen doesn't take up all of your visual space.

The other problem with the regular (large) IMAX format (I do not know if this applies to the smaller IMAX format screens) is that it is still film-based. There were several times last night where dirt/lint distracted you from the viewing because it was front and center on a white-ish object (like Flynn's face/beard). Digital project would not suffer this problem.

Anyway, I consider this to be my own problem, and the opinions can be considered limited to me only. Smile

I can't wait to see the movie again.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:19 am
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