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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Flynn Lives
[FILM] Reviews (spoilers)
Moderators: enaxor, Euchre, spaceboy, thebruce
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thebruceModerator
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

 		On IMAX, yeah, I saw a topic on that once and they described the framing and composition required to make a film 'work' in real IMAX - for instance in regular film action is front an center, subjects need good framing, standard stuff; with IMAX the director needs to consider half the frame effectively empty space - put subjects in the lower center, or close together leaving more empty space than you're inclined. It may look awkward when viewing normally, but on an IMAX it's absolutely necessary to avoid just what you described.

Euchre wrote:
Since we are going all spoilerific...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Did you all not notice when Kevin 'heals' Quorra by removing the damaged code, the code segment itself becomes another sort of life form and flutters away?

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
while I like the idea of what you're describing for ISOs, I only saw this 'flutter' as exactly what happens to the code of anything else that's destroyed on the grid - break apart and blows away like dust in the wind. For one, it's broken code, and it's no longer the 'perfect' ISO entity. I don't see how a broken, errant piece of code could be self-sustaining here. It contradicts what the ISOs are all about, in the philosophy of the film at least (even though the idea of sufficiently advanced code being able to adapt and survive in any circumstance would be neat - it would also far too much here I think).

Unless they intend that little piece of broken code to have ascended and to return as the villain in the next movie(s) =P


man it's work writing this all on an iPhone on the way to work... I love technology! Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:07 am
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madopal
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Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Anyone else chuckle at the fact that the entire ARG and organization is named after something that is no longer true, and that our interference (and side channel attack) led to that?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:12 pm
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shaved_ape
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 		Unanswered questions.
For starters the Norelco thing was a cluster-F@#%. The pre-party was us sitting in our seats for an hour. So I threw popcorn at Tagruato!!!

Here are my questions.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
1. Quorra said that when Flynn destroys Clu, it will destroy Flynn. So are we for sure that Flynn is dead? Did he destroy the whole Grid with that explosion? Because it wasn't shot to show that.

It's not my question, but I don't think Tron/Rinzler is dead. We saw him go good right before hand! Very Happy

My main question and tagruato believes the same, how in the hell are they going to have a sequel if the grid is gone, so maybe it's not. But I think Dillingers son is going to have a major battle with Sam if there is a sequel.

Maybe Dillinger creates an MCP that won't allow Sam to screw with the system anymore, but Tron is still around to control that?


Those are my questions.

I LOVED this movie, but The Bruce is right, 3D doesn't add to much on this. In fact the IMAX screen was so big, that sometimes things were out of focus and no matter how you turned your head it didn't fix it.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:52 am
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CalebH2010
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 		Did anyone else cry? I know I did
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
that line "good bye kiddo" really got me. The guys who wrote this movie are bastards, how dare they do what they did!
I can't imagine a sequel. There's no need for one. It's over.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:36 am
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Deadboy619
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 		Saw the film for the second time today (first time in SD on the 13th and today in Irvine). Imax and Disney Digital are way better than Real3D, especially with Irvine's GIANT Imax screen - super sweet. Here's too all the Unfiction Members that cruised up tonight. Have save rides home in the rain - this means you Beef2Taco and friends and Cinderbike and his lady. And theres totally room for a sequel here.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:59 am
Last edited by Deadboy619 on Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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shaved_ape
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Deadboy619 wrote:
And theres totally room for a sequel here.


Where?

That's what I don't get really. This movie was written before talks of a sequel.

So my only guess is that somehow Dillenger vs flynn comes up again.

Flynn may not be dead, Tron may not be dead. but if Flynn is dead, the whole grid is gone.

Joe Kosinski, is an unmatched, BRILLIANT director. The Cinemetography was unmatched, fantastic work, the script was very well written.

But I think this can go without a sequel.

Cartoons yes, sequels, leave it alone...Maybe Very Happy

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:03 am
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Deadboy619
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 		I dont think if Flynn is dead then the Grid is gone - but if that does mean the Grid is gone...then yeah its harder to see a sequel, unless Sam creates another Grid
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
(perhaps based off the server back up).
.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The whole thing with Tron sinking and turning back over. And Flynn could of became part of the Grid when he reconnected with Clu. The films have been very religious like (come on the "the son of our creator" is a little Jesus like) and if Flynn is a god figure in the films then perhaps has part of the Grid he is now a bio-digital omnipotence being.


Also the Flynn Lives pin mailings come with that note from Zack talking about how he might need us later (cant think of the exact words).

I just think its open to a sequel, I dont think there will be one for sure.


p.s. Disney also loves to make a bundle off merchandise - and Tron could end up being their Thunder Cats.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:11 am
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thebruceModerator
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 		Re: Unanswered questions.
shaved_ape wrote:
For starters the Norelco thing was a cluster-F@#%. The pre-party was us sitting in our seats for an hour. So I threw popcorn at Tagruato!!!

Pretty much here too... My bus ended up being 30 mins late, so I only got to the theater around 6:40, and really nothing had been happening. Phillips reps were hovering around everywhere, with a stand up in the lobby and some promotional stuff, but no 'show' and nothing special in the theater.

Toronto UF ppl were all there, and a few extra guest spots had my name on them to be sure (thanks, all =). They had two theaters, and neither were showing IMAX Evil or Very Mad I didn't get my IMAX fix tonight. However, the theater was better than Monday's screening. ...For better or for worse...

A few of us had special 'VIP' access to the event, and that granted us a slightly smaller screen, but no line and less people. The other theater still had people lining up while we were seated comfortably. Phillips also gave us a small popcorn and pop, and did a couple giveaways (one being a $350 razor which KowZ here won, and immediately sold for a good $140)

All in all, enh on the event... yay on the 2nd screening!

shaved_ape wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
1. Quorra said that when Flynn destroys Clu, it will destroy Flynn. So are we for sure that Flynn is dead? Did he destroy the whole Grid with that explosion? Because it wasn't shot to show that.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Quorra actually said that "Flynn would not survive, neither of them would". So really, what does she mean by 'survive'? Wink

A point was raised as we walked out - the water remained. The explosion wasn't the destruction of the grid by any means, but with that explosion essentially taking out all 'land' mass that was visible in that area, what's so special about the water that it remains? There's an obviuos analogy there to 'water of life' religiously, and fictionally the fact that Tron's in there somewhere... but in thinking of the system, yeah - what's so special about the water if everything is equally digital?



shaved_ape wrote:
I LOVED this movie, but The Bruce is right, 3D doesn't add to much on this. In fact the IMAX screen was so big, that sometimes things were out of focus and no matter how you turned your head it didn't fix it.


ahh... the 3D...
rantmode on// (no tl;dr summary as it's late and I'm tired Coffee )


With this screening being on a better screen, I watched very carefully and I'm now firmly convinced that the live action was filmed in 2D and made 3D combined with other 3D environments in post - fake 3D, just what I detest.

The difference here is that
1) full live action scenes (background included) were more wide angle/distant, needing less pronounced 3D;
2) closeup scenes generally had CG backgrounds, and individuals can be digitally 'cut' and pushed or pulled in depth;
3) I could not stop noticing what I'll call 3d artifacting in the post-processing. For example, in Flynn's pad, when the camera is viewing from outside, the elongated bookshelf on the back wall appeared in front of his light cycle, which seemed like it was behind the back wall. And I noticed a number of instances of rampant hair chunks that floated way in front of or behind the rest of the hair, and the occasional other little artifact of missed visual content, in quick clips especially, that didn't appear to be at a consistent visual depth.
4) Actor closeups in real 3D should show much more natural facial depth (think nose appearing closer than the eye sockets) than wider body shots, and every facial closeup here was completely flat; I was striving to see even a tiny bit of (natural) visual depth to the characters' facial features, and could find none (except that final scene, for obvious CG reasons; no spoiler Smile )
5) The constant mix of live action and CG effects masked the flatness of physical scene elements (eg lens flares right up close distract you from noticing that the more distant vehicle they're driving really doesn't 'feel' 3D, or that side wall doesn't really stretch from near to far);
6) Rinzler, I believe was almost entirely rendered save some action shots, but had quite a couple of in-your-face moments where he just really popped out as he flew towards the camera in some crazy flip or stunt - very cool, very CG =)
7) I believe they knew all of this, which is one of the reasons they purposely didn't make the 3D as prominent as most 3D movies do - to reduce the 'unnatural' effect of fake 3D, and mix it as seamlessly as possible with the 'real' 3D computer generated graphic environments and FX.

The light cycle scene for one was stunning and absolutely amazing which, I believe, was also entirely CG. But some of the interior shots within the physical sets could at times be jarring with the post-production 3D.
I do wish they'd filmed the live action in 3D though. But I could see how that might make the combining them with CG 3D environments in post more of a daunting task.

Even after all this though, the 'fake' 3D, as much as I hate it, was mixed well with the rest of the 3D environment so it's not nearly as jarring as an entire live-action 2D film made 3D for the sake of the trend. I believe they made the right choice to have the 3D not as prominent, and allow the very memorable and visually stunning (CG) scenes to take the forefront for the 3D effect.

In the end, as I said before, I think this film would be just as good if seen in 2D. Except the light cycles. That should stay 3D Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:25 am
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shaved_ape
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 		The BIGGEST SPOILER OF ALL!!!
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
If Quorra was excited by the sun, wait til she finds out what cocks are for, or what her finooter is made for. Shifty Eyes


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:34 am
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EuchreModerator
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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 		So...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
If you recall in the first film, the water glows a bit blue and is 'power', as in electricity. Notice the drinks at dinner at Flynn's safe house were a bluish liquid. Basically on the grid, water is pure, clean power. In religious terms, when you are immersed in water you are being washed over with the cleansing power of God - being baptized. Tron was baptized, and his 'soul' was cleansed.

The Grid is just an environment created in software. Software can be backed up, as we basically saw Sam doing at the end before shutting down Kevin's secret server. He wears that backup around his neck. Kevin =/= the Grid, he created the Grid first then entered it.

We have a digital being that has emerged into the human world, we have Sam ready to take back Encom, Alan Bradley as the chair, and a junior Ed Dillinger trying to reinstate his father's power over the company. There's plenty of room for a sequel.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:37 am
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wayfarer
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Joined: 02 Dec 2010
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 		i reviewed TL for a website at this link;

http://www.flash-bang-movie-reviews.com/tron_legacy.html

Beware there are spoilers. It'll come across as quite negative but I gave the movie an 8/10 due to the way in which it made me feel. The atmosphere of the movie is superb, but overall the movie is let down by a reliance on the viewer having played Evolution and read The Betrayal. The ARG elements aren't important to the plot, as such, but give an additional dimension to those of us who have participated.

I'm frustrated that time was spent on the script to get it right and the finished film is full of unanswered questions and refers to much that we don't ever get to see.

Hopefully, my summary makes clear how I felt;

Quote:
The screenplay is weak but the movie is well worth watching for the spectacle. The 3D doesn't impose itself on the production and like Avatar, the movie can be enjoyed just as much in 2D. Those going into the movie expecting a cyberpunk story with the level of complexity as The Matrix Trilogy will be disappointed and feel short changed, especially as the story promises so much more than it delivers. Go in wanting sharp visuals and great sound design, with some poignant performances and interesting cameos, then you'll have a blast.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:36 am
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EuchreModerator
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 		The Matrix Trilogy as an example of a more complex plot? That ship hit an iceberg after the first film and sunk fast. The only reason the 2nd and 3rd films are worth anything is for the sake of completion, not for their own quality.

I have not played Evolution, not read Betrayal, and didn't feel any bit lost about the story for it. Just because I don't have some extensive background in the elements shared with Evolution and Betrayal doesn't mean the brief explanations in the film weren't enough. For another analogy, I didn't need to know how General Grievous became a coughing sinister cyborg (for which there IS a whole story) to see he was an agent of the dark side of the Force and in essence a proto-Darth Vader.

When you create a franchise universe, and do it well, there's room for the extra detail without requiring it to enjoy the main story.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:54 am
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thebruceModerator
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Euchre wrote:
When you create a franchise universe, and do it well, there's room for the extra detail without requiring it to enjoy the main story.

QFT
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:00 am
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wayfarer
Boot

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
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Location: Chelmsford, UK
Euchre wrote:
The Matrix Trilogy as an example of a more complex plot? That ship hit an iceberg after the first film and sunk fast. The only reason the 2nd and 3rd films are worth anything is for the sake of completion, not for their own quality.

I have not played Evolution, not read Betrayal, and didn't feel any bit lost about the story for it. Just because I don't have some extensive background in the elements shared with Evolution and Betrayal doesn't mean the brief explanations in the film weren't enough. For another analogy, I didn't need to know how General Grievous became a coughing sinister cyborg (for which there IS a whole story) to see he was an agent of the dark side of the Force and in essence a proto-Darth Vader.

When you create a franchise universe, and do it well, there's room for the extra detail without requiring it to enjoy the main story.


Fair points well made. I consider the Matrix sequels to be complex because of the philosophical elements within the screenplay; not immediately obvious admittedly but there nonetheless. TL contains similar themes but never seems to address them. It's not neccesary to address them to entertain, just my preference would have been to have more detail.
I'm due to see TL again on Saturday and I'm dying to see how I feel about it second time around, being a big fan of the concept.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:06 am
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wslyr
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 		Watched it, loved it.

Script was a bit meh though.

Also I'm really annoyed at the end at how
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Quorra turns into a human. I really didn't want them to do that, and they did. SIGH.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:41 am
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