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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Marble Hornets vs. TribeTwelve
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Uboa
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Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Inside an indifferent blonde girl in an Indian tent in the middle of a Pastel Lake. :D

i read a review on TT, MH and EMH and it pretty much summed up why I love MH over the others: think MH as the pioneer of slendervlogs, EMH as the one who takes the idea and makes it their own and TT as the one who takes the idea and somewhat not so subtly copies off the pioneer, though post-karl, he's gotten better. not good if you ask me but better.

ionno, EMH is hard for me to get into (i skipped a lot of videos simply because they seemed like filler you could've just said in a tweet, though their slends is lovely and it's not a bad series at all) and TT, they're too straightforward about slendy sightings. yes, slentacles made me shat a house, but the acting is average and i know MH 's 1st season wasn't so great either but MH has a GREAT buildup before BAM MINDFREAK. come on, the end of the hotel arc was more than gorgeous.

tl;dr, my vote goes for MH. <3

edit: btw first on sixth page hurrdeehurr. /hipster

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:23 pm
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Antifringe
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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I HAVE OPINIONS LOOK OUT HERE THEY COME

TribeTwelve: I can't get into this. I have two major compliants:

1) The structure is lifted straight from Marble Hornets, to the point where it's practically a MH fan re-make. The narrator has a friend who vanished. The missing friend left behind footage from an incomplete film project. Studying the footage reveals the presence of an unearthly stalker. The narrator attracts the attention of a human-seeming stalker who communicates entirely through cryptic videos.

I mean come on.

I hear a lot about the 'post-Karl' TT, but I'm just not feeling it. I think that's largely because of

2) The acting. Acting has been a problem for all of the Slendblogs. These people are film hobbyists and horror fans, not professional actors. God bless them, they do their best , but it is a problem. Marble Hornets deals with the problem by almost never having the narrator speak. The few conversations that get included are usually about very prosaic things that don't really require acting chops to pull off convincingly. They deal with the melodrama by either keeping it off-camera or keeping it super-short.

TT doesn't take any of these measures, and it really hurts my enjoyment. He writes himself into a lot of very dramatic, highly charged situations but doesn't have the acting experience to make it work. I had to watch the Thanksgiving episode through the corner of my eye, not because I was scared, but because I felt embarrassed.

Everyman Hybrid: I loved this thing when it first came out, but now I'm a bit indifferent. It had a terrific premise. Instead of being a horror story masquerading as a real blog, it was a real blog pretending to pretend to be a horror story. That's kind of ingenious. And then they take it to the next level by having the pranksters encounter the 'real' Slenderman. Now it's a horror story pretending to be a real blog that is pretending to pretend to be a horror story. Shocked

And then they succumbed to authorial excess. They're being stalked by the Slenderman. Some person/ghost/whatever named HABIT shows up and hides boxes everywhere. The protagonists are actually reincarnations of dead children or something. There is some crazy girl that they need to rescue. There is some other, non-crazy girl that they also have to rescue. There another monster called the Rake and it lives in one of the dude's closets. They travel through time. Etc.

To the writers' credit, they're not just making it up as they go along. Most of these elements were carefully foreshadowed well in advance. But planned or not, it still makes the story a jumbled mess and it dilutes everything so much that it's hard to care about any one issue anymore.

EmH also has the acting problem. I think the cast actually has a lot of natural charisma, and they come across as really likable people when they're just chatting and not trying to act. But they keep writing themselves into these really intense situations and they just don't have the experience to portray the drama in a believable way.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:12 pm
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Timur
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yeah, I think its just the situations that really make it difficult for a novice actor to act convincingly. Chatting, conversations, and less intense stuff can usually be done well, but in the end, its difficult to truly be able to imitate that sort of fear and confusion in a convincing manner. This is of no fault to the authors, but it is a problem nonetheless (hell, even MH feels a little off when Jay starts talking to everyone; the most convincing scenes of acting in MH are usually those where people are acting normal)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:21 pm
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Antifringe
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Timur wrote:
yeah, I think its just the situations that really make it difficult for a novice actor to act convincingly. Chatting, conversations, and less intense stuff can usually be done well, but in the end, its difficult to truly be able to imitate that sort of fear and confusion in a convincing manner. This is of no fault to the authors, but it is a problem nonetheless (hell, even MH feels a little off when Jay starts talking to everyone; the most convincing scenes of acting in MH are usually those where people are acting normal)


Absolutely. I thought the weakest parts of MH were when Jay and Jessica had those long, awkward conversations. They're in a complex situation, where both sides are trying to figure out what the other knows without also tipping their own hand. That's really nuanced scenario, and with two neophyte actors, it just didn't work.

I think one of the biggest edges that MH has is that the writers have a grasp of how difficult a craft acting really is. They try to write around the melodrama instead of towards it. They even made a point of Marble Hornets (the in-game film project, not the blog) being a bad film created by clueless film students. That meant that they didn't have to worry about the acting being bad, because it's supposed to be bad!

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:36 pm
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bobthecrusher
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I just can't get into EMH. It takes so long to get anywhere, I get bored during the videos, I get discracted, IDK, just never really got into it. MH I started from the beginning and it worked. I watched them from start to present and never got tired of it.

TT...just....just no, man, seriously. No.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:51 pm
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redherring
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Antifringe wrote:
I HAVE OPINIONS LOOK OUT HERE THEY COME

TribeTwelve: I can't get into this. I have two major compliants:

1) The structure is lifted straight from Marble Hornets, to the point where it's practically a MH fan re-make. The narrator has a friend who vanished. The missing friend left behind footage from an incomplete film project. Studying the footage reveals the presence of an unearthly stalker. The narrator attracts the attention of a human-seeming stalker who communicates entirely through cryptic videos.


Are we watching the same series? Confused Where in TT was there an incomplete film project? I've watched through the series (so far) twice now and don't have any recollection of that whatsoever. I mean, he taped some footage when Milo visited before he disappeared. There was some Slenderin' and some really bad acting.

Then Karl. Then the awful Thanksgiving explosion. Then some half-decent videos with some mildly improved acting on Noah's part. I agree the acting is kind of butt, but it's considered part of the 'Big Three' because, well... it does some stuff pretty well. Not perfect by any means, but until contenders like MLAndersen0 and DarkHarvest came along it was the best alternative to MH (and EMH if you weren't into the multiple non-Slendy offshoots they do). Plus the Slendacles are just beastly.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:40 pm
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Antifringe
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redherring wrote:
Are we watching the same series? Confused Where in TT was there an incomplete film project? I've watched through the series (so far) twice now and don't have any recollection of that whatsoever. I mean, he taped some footage when Milo visited before he disappeared. There was some Slenderin' and some really bad acting.


Erk. I really muddled some of the details. Milo doesn't vanish, he's found dead, and the film project was being shot by Noah himself, but featured Milo prominently. It's still close enough that I consider it to be a direct copy.

Quote:
Then Karl. Then the awful Thanksgiving explosion. Then some half-decent videos with some mildly improved acting on Noah's part. I agree the acting is kind of butt, but it's considered part of the 'Big Three' because, well... it does some stuff pretty well. Not perfect by any means, but until contenders like MLAndersen0 and DarkHarvest came along it was the best alternative to MH (and EMH if you weren't into the multiple non-Slendy offshoots they do). Plus the Slendacles are just beastly.


Don't get me wrong. I clearly found it engaging enough to watch all the way through. But it's not enough to make me want to check for updates or anything. It's like some show that's just good enough that you'll watch it if it's on, but you'd never sit down in front of the TV just to watch it.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:13 am
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Night Prowler
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Tribe Twelve, I think way to many people here are seeing MH through Rose tinted glasses, which isn't surprising. Ever since Milo left the scene Adam's acting has been far better, he shows a wide range of emotion with his character, far wider than anyone has shown in MH. I like the Noah character more, he does stuff that I can imagine myself doing, when faced with Flight or Fight I've found that I fight like Noah, also I swear like a trooper when enraged/scared.

Also the story is better, Adam gives a lot more clues as to why his character is being stalked by the Slenders through his editing which gives the ARG-ers something to actually do even if it is grabbing the quick screen shots and changing the contrast. He explained what Slenderman is with his Karl video which MH didn't do until the recent Entry and even now people are still debating if Alex's stories are real and what the Operator actually is.

Also yeah his visual effects far outweigh MH, I have no immersion to The Operator when he is on the screen, it's just way to obvious that it is fake, sometimes I wonder if it has been knited together.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:16 am
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redherring
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Night Prowler wrote:
Tribe Twelve, I think way to many people here are seeing MH through Rose tinted glasses, which isn't surprising. Ever since Milo left the scene Adam's acting has been far better, he shows a wide range of emotion with his character, far wider than anyone has shown in MH. I like the Noah character more, he does stuff that I can imagine myself doing, when faced with Flight or Fight I've found that I fight like Noah, also I swear like a trooper when enraged/scared.

Also the story is better, Adam gives a lot more clues as to why his character is being stalked by the Slenders through his editing which gives the ARG-ers something to actually do even if it is grabbing the quick screen shots and changing the contrast. He explained what Slenderman is with his Karl video which MH didn't do until the recent Entry and even now people are still debating if Alex's stories are real and what the Operator actually is.

Also yeah his visual effects far outweigh MH, I have no immersion to The Operator when he is on the screen, it's just way to obvious that it is fake, sometimes I wonder if it has been knited together.


I'd say more people see it through brown-tinted glasses v. rose-tinted ones (rose-tinted would imply they see it as good when it's awful) and yeah, some of the points you highlight are true. I don't know if the story is 'better' and, honestly, I'd venture to say there's not much of a story at all apart from 'Milo died and now this dood and a tall tentacley dude are stalkin' me', but it is interesting. As Antifringe pointed out...

Antifringe wrote:
It's like some show that's just good enough that you'll watch it if it's on, but you'd never sit down in front of the TV just to watch it.


Of course, that's kind of the point of this thread - everybody's entitled to their preferences and opinions. I mean, I personally hated Lost and was a huge fan of Heroes up until its last episode (well after most of the fanbase had jumped ship after season one). It's not exactly a popular mindset, but something about Lost turned me off from the start, and I got incredibly invested in Heroes even after a lackluster 2nd/3rd season.

I think each series (even our beloved MH) has its glaring faults and shortcomings, but they're all still good in their own rights and to their own demographics. MH for the everyman/everywoman, EMH for more hardcore ARG lovers and people into dense plots, TT for those more into action/effects/jump scares, MLA for those looking for more intricate and professional acting in a series, DarkHarvest for a more violent imagining of the mythos, and UnnaturalEvents and 2080twentyeighty for... the braindead? Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:37 am
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Night Prowler
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redherring wrote:
I don't know if the story is 'better' and, honestly, I'd venture to say there's not much of a story at all apart from 'Milo died and now this dood and a tall tentacley dude are stalkin' me', but it is interesting. As Antifringe pointed out...


There is a story. Something happened with Noah and Milo when they were children on the nature trail and we also know that a Child died on that nature trail and the park was out there as a memorial to the child. That's the main point of the series, we've seen screenshots that say "DO" "YOU" "REMEMBER" and then shows Slenderman with a Child on the walkway. Also the Observer sent Noah a note saying "The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness" implying Noah is guilty of something and is creating darkness. Also there is a background story on Milo's mother and how she would see someone called "Mr Slim" and the sub plot of Milo being dead or not and is he the Observer. Also the Observer hacked Noah's twitter, made a riddle and gave out an image of a Book inside a box and the inside of the box's lid has the Nazi eagle holding the Swastika.

So yeah there is a story, it isn't just Noah running around with Slendy behind him.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:53 am
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redherring
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Night Prowler wrote:
redherring wrote:
I don't know if the story is 'better' and, honestly, I'd venture to say there's not much of a story at all apart from 'Milo died and now this dood and a tall tentacley dude are stalkin' me', but it is interesting. As Antifringe pointed out...


There is a story. Something happened with Noah and Milo when they were children on the nature trail and we also know that a Child died on that nature trail and the park was out there as a memorial to the child. That's the main point of the series, we've seen screenshots that say "DO" "YOU" "REMEMBER" and then shows Slenderman with a Child on the walkway. Also the Observer sent Noah a note saying "The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness" implying Noah is guilty of something and is creating darkness. Also there is a background story on Milo's mother and how she would see someone called "Mr Slim" and the sub plot of Milo being dead or not and is he the Observer. Also the Observer hacked Noah's twitter, made a riddle and gave out an image of a Book inside a box and the inside of the box's lid has the Nazi eagle holding the Swastika.

So yeah there is a story, it isn't just Noah running around with Slendy behind him.


Well... a lot of backstory anyway.

I'm not trying to deliberately be a dick about TT here - if you've noticed from any of my earlier posts in this thread and similar ones, my view of TT has changed to be significantly more positive since I first watched it and loathed it with the passion of a thousand suns. It's not awful, but apart from the Karl/Holocaust and Milo backstories, not much has happened during the actual series apart from recently (with Noah's kidnapping). There's a strong chance that's going to keep picking up now and we're going to have a lot more actually happening to Noah, but honestly I don't think that much has happened (you're welcome to disagree, however, as this is my opinion).

The same can be said about a lot of other series though, too. MH started off slow, but really picked up when the search-for-Alex, TTA, and Timasky started complicating Jay's life, and especially with the advent of Season 2's more Jay-centric plot. EMH picked up when they revealed that Slenderman was no longer a prank and was actually stalking them (although they brushed it off as someone messing with them at first). MLAndersen0 and DarkHarvest, two of the more promising new Slendervlogs, also suffer from this as well, but (like TT) they have started picking up the pace with plot development more recently.

It's an inherent issue with these vlog series, but each of them fits their own niche/mold/demographic after time. I just think it took TT longer to get its pacing right (multi-month lags for lackluster videos like Thanksgiving?) but now that it has, if it keeps it up and keeps the awesome coming, I think it'll turn a lot of people around. The complaints are always similar - the bad acting and lack of real plot occurrences in the videos before Grandpa Karl make it hard to want to keep watching. But, if you do, it gets better. Much better. And now it's really getting better.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:02 am
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distilled
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redherring wrote:
all good stuff


I agree - thats why it is encouraging to see MH make some real strides towards explaining SM and his backstory. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's a brave move by Troy. A lot of people just want the mystery of not knowing what SM is, but the MH guys have started to broach the subject.

TT does have a story, sort of. But it isn't very apparent, and it follows the vein of a number of Slenderblogs in the whole "friend is scared of something" "friend disappears/dies" "thing follows me" "oh noes". If TT is going to break away from MH, EMH and DH it is going to have to start approaching why SM was stalking Milo, why SM has appeared to other family members in the past.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:46 am
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Night Prowler
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redherring wrote:
Well... a lot of backstory anyway.


Doesnt this mean that all of MH at the moment is back story?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:51 am
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redherring
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Night Prowler wrote:
redherring wrote:
Well... a lot of backstory anyway.


Doesnt this mean that all of MH at the moment is back story?


I'm sure you could find a way to argue that. I consider backstory (just based off its definition) what happened preceding the events of the main plot that informs what happens. I'd consider the Milo videos at the beginning part of that story, but honestly, nothing actually happens except that we get some glimpses of Slenderman and Milo running around scared out of his wits. It isn't until the Grandpa Karl video that stuff actually really starts happening - the Observer starts communicating with Noah, etc. It really started picking up when Noah was kidnapped. The plot is moving forward. That's story.

In Marble Hornets, the 'back story' is that Alex gave a bunch of tapes from an abandoned film project to Jay, who forgot about them, but now just remembered. The story is him looking at the tapes, we get to see what happened, and the way in which those events are revealed to use makes the plot move forward. Again, I admitted that early on MH was a lot of build up, but once things started happening to Jay in real life is when things really started picking up, the mystery got a lot deeper because now it's not 'oh man what happened to this friend' it's 'oh man I'm being led to him, I'm going to have to find out what happened to him' and ultimately (at the end of S1) 'oh man my friend's still alive, I've got to find him!'

Like I started by saying, you can argue that the tape archives are back story, but they aren't presented as 'okay so this is a story about Jay and all these tapes are gonna lead up to it'. That'd make Season 1 the longest exposition I've ever seen for a story. The tapes and Jay's discoveries in them were the story, and that story evolved and became a lot more intricate as Jay's real life started paralleling the atmosphere and events from the tapes. Now, with the past couple entries, we're getting some back story (which IS pissing some people off, if you read the Entry #38 thread) but it's going to be set-up for a major plot event, most likely.

TT's doing that too, and it's why I'm praising their recent work, because instead of just revealing all this back story we're actually seeing how it's affecting Noah in the present, through his interactions with Slenderman and the Observer. It's becoming a lot more story-driven, and that's a good thing, because it means (like Troy and Joseph and company) Nimbus (since I forget his real name) is becoming a better storyteller, and TribeTwelve is going to be a better series from now on for that reason.

distilled wrote:
redherring wrote:
all good stuff


I agree - thats why it is encouraging to see MH make some real strides towards explaining SM and his backstory. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's a brave move by Troy. A lot of people just want the mystery of not knowing what SM is, but the MH guys have started to broach the subject.

TT does have a story, sort of. But it isn't very apparent, and it follows the vein of a number of Slenderblogs in the whole "friend is scared of something" "friend disappears/dies" "thing follows me" "oh noes". If TT is going to break away from MH, EMH and DH it is going to have to start approaching why SM was stalking Milo, why SM has appeared to other family members in the past.


I'd argue that they are(/will be) doing this. The Observer has a very clear and strong connection to TT's Slenderman, and his/their presence has been a lot stronger in recent entries, which makes me think that we're going to start getting more answers through Noah about what Slenderman is doing and why he's so intently focused on Noah.

I mean... I know everybody (for the sake of the mythos of Slenderman) wants him/it to remain a mysterious enigma forever, but these are mystery stories first and foremost. You can only do the 'oh gosh mysterious person is scary' schtick for so long before you become stale, even if you find more nightmare-fuel-y ways to do it. Not everybody will like what MH is doing story wise, but we might learn something important about Alex's connection to the Operator, the purposes of ToTheArk (and the Ark), and why the hell Jay is so freaking important to everybody in solving these riddles and answering these questions. Apart from Tim's obvious man-crush on him. Razz [/kidding] But honestly, it's part of the nature of the beast. Good stories need to progress and (some day) come to an end. Whether MH ends with Season 2 or continues on for five seasons, they eventually have to help us learn something, even if some mysteries stay unsolved.

[/rant] Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:01 pm
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Hex2
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Well, to be honest, I think I prefer, but only by a smidggen. TribeTwelve does a better job of unfolding it's mysteries and teasing the audience with clues and subsquent revelations. Marble Hornets, by contrast, does drag on a bit and although incredibly spooky and unnerving, it doesn't really give enough clues to the situation or the predicitment which, at least, grates me. We've had missing memories, Jay waking up in a different location, but not really enough to go on to how this events may occured. By contrast, Tribe Twelve had the mysterious messages leaving the viewer to ponder on what was happening to Noah and their involvement with him, Noah attempting to confront the threat, Noah with the knife, the letter concerning Milo, 'm not saying Marble Hornets is bad, I like the ambiguity of it all, but I would like to see some sort of resolution or greater hint to why everything is happening. (Entry #50 can't come soon enough!)

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:51 pm
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