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Poll

Who is the Seeker of the Ark?

Alex
14%
 14%  [ 43 ]
Alex
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Tim
23%
 23%  [ 69 ]
Tim
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Brian
20%
 20%  [ 62 ]
Brian
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Seth
7%
 7%  [ 22 ]
Seth
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Jessica
7%
 7%  [ 23 ]
Jessica
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Someone else
26%
 26%  [ 79 ]
Someone else
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]

Total Votes : 298
 

 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[SPEC] Who is totheark?
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Parietal Lobectomy
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
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Location: Just North of Glencoe, Scotland.

 		TTA=TTJ?
A wild theory which has just occurred to me and, although I'm not certain I buy into it, it might be worth considering.

What if TTA is J?

*ducks to avoid flying brickbats*

We see footage of Alex obsessively drawing the Operator, the Operator symbol and warning phrases after a spell of what looks very much like Operator-induced proxiedom. I've always thought this was Alex's subconscious desperately trying to tell him he was being controlled, with the messages coming out in a cryptic fashion because of some vestiges of Operator control.

What if TTA is Jay's way of doing the same?

(actually, scratch that. Have just remembered the footage of Jay walikng back to his car...so TTA can't be Jay alone. Bah!

As you were...
*lurks in shame*

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:10 am
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Baronness
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Joined: 05 Sep 2012
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Location: Texas

 		Re: TTA=TTJ?
Parietal Lobectomy wrote:
*ducks to avoid flying brickbats*


:]

You might wanna duck for a little bit longer, my friend.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:17 pm
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Parietal Lobectomy
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 		Re: TTA=TTJ?
Baronness wrote:
Parietal Lobectomy wrote:
*ducks to avoid flying brickbats*


:]

You might wanna duck for a little bit longer, my friend.


Indeed.

Perhaps I shouldn't trust theories which come after only 3 hours sleep?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:33 pm
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Geneaux486
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Joined: 17 Mar 2011
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 		My only problem with your theory is it wouldn't make sence for him to call himself "tothejay". Unless the meaning behind that is some metaphorical "I'm trying to find myself, my own identity" kind of thing. So I guess it actually would make sense.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:53 pm
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Cougar Draven
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 		I'd love to see one person suggest an alternative to Jay being one half of TTA that satisfies Occam's Razor. PROTIP: I've been suggesting it for half a year now and I haven't seen a single one.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:09 pm
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Parietal Lobectomy
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Cougar Draven wrote:
I'd love to see one person suggest an alternative to Jay being one half of TTA that satisfies Occam's Razor. PROTIP: I've been suggesting it for half a year now and I haven't seen a single one.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
There are occasions where Occam's Beard is more appropriate than Occam's Razor Laughing

(Physicians use Occam's Razor as a diagnostic tool. But I work in Medicine for the elderly, where there are often many different problems happening at once in the same patient, making Occam's Razor less valuable - hence the Beard)


I was wondering if there might be something in the obsessive writing/Operator symbols etc we've seen Alex do - if this might be his non-Proxied subconscious desperately trying to tell his Proxied Conscious that something was very wrong. I then wondered if the cryptic nature of the TTA videos were something along the same lines - one of the Proxied main players posting video replies as a warning. This warning would have to be cryptic to escape the Proxied consciousness.

This would put Jay and Alex in the frame as TTA, as the principle "film guys"...but there seems to be enough circumstantial evidence to rule them out.

While Seth might then be in the frame, why would he need to be so cryptic? We've seen no evidence he's alive, let alone acting as a Proxy.

I've always been in the "TTA is a collective" camp, at any road. Have to say I'm not particularly married to any theory - I'm just enjoying exploring them whilst waiting (im)patiently for the answers to unfold.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Marble Hornets has popped my "Chaotic Fiction" cherry, and I'm just enjoying the ride! (whilst understanding it's perhaps not quite "Chaotic Fiction" by the strictest definition of the term)


PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:30 pm
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Cougar Draven
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Parietal Lobectomy wrote:
Cougar Draven wrote:
I'd love to see one person suggest an alternative to Jay being one half of TTA that satisfies Occam's Razor. PROTIP: I've been suggesting it for half a year now and I haven't seen a single one.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
There are occasions where Occam's Beard is more appropriate than Occam's Razor Laughing

(Physicians use Occam's Razor as a diagnostic tool. But I work in Medicine for the elderly, where there are often many different problems happening at once in the same patient, making Occam's Razor less valuable - hence the Beard)


I was wondering if there might be something in the obsessive writing/Operator symbols etc we've seen Alex do - if this might be his non-Proxied subconscious desperately trying to tell his Proxied Conscious that something was very wrong. I then wondered if the cryptic nature of the TTA videos were something along the same lines - one of the Proxied main players posting video replies as a warning. This warning would have to be cryptic to escape the Proxied consciousness.

This would put Jay and Alex in the frame as TTA, as the principle "film guys"...but there seems to be enough circumstantial evidence to rule them out.

While Seth might then be in the frame, why would he need to be so cryptic? We've seen no evidence he's alive, let alone acting as a Proxy.

I've always been in the "TTA is a collective" camp, at any road. Have to say I'm not particularly married to any theory - I'm just enjoying exploring them whilst waiting (im)patiently for the answers to unfold.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Marble Hornets has popped my "Chaotic Fiction" cherry, and I'm just enjoying the ride! (whilst understanding it's perhaps not quite "Chaotic Fiction" by the strictest definition of the term)


First of all, don't use "proxy". It's wholly inappropriate to use in a Marble Hornets context, given that the definition of the word doesn't apply to anyone.

Second, my full theory is that Jay handles the computer aspect of TTA, and filming is split between Jay and Brian, who is Hoody.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:35 pm
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Parietal Lobectomy
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
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Cougar Draven wrote:

Quote:
Snipped


First of all, don't use "proxy". It's wholly inappropriate to use in a Marble Hornets context, given that the definition of the word doesn't apply to anyone.

Second, my full theory is that Jay handles the computer aspect of TTA, and filming is split between Jay and Brian, who is Hoody.


My apologies. I'd been using "Proxy" as a shortcut for "under The Operator's control" which could be supported by what we've seen (during the lost time, and when Jay went out of his door to not come out the other side in...entry #19? But you're quite right - it's never used as a term in any of the entries, so my apologies.

And I like your TTA is Jay & Brian theory - I *do* think Brian is most likely to be Hoody (I was rather surprised to see him behind Tim in the poll above, until I realised most of those casting votes probably had done so long before we knew for certain Hoody & Masky were different people). Do you think Jay is aware he's TTA and is being an unreliable narrator, or are you going for some sort of fugue state? Certainly, encounters with The Operator seem to induce a certain staring vacancy in people...

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:45 pm
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Cougar Draven
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Joined: 30 Oct 2010
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Parietal Lobectomy wrote:
Cougar Draven wrote:

Quote:
Snipped


First of all, don't use "proxy". It's wholly inappropriate to use in a Marble Hornets context, given that the definition of the word doesn't apply to anyone.

Second, my full theory is that Jay handles the computer aspect of TTA, and filming is split between Jay and Brian, who is Hoody.


My apologies. I'd been using "Proxy" as a shortcut for "under The Operator's control" which could be supported by what we've seen (during the lost time, and when Jay went out of his door to not come out the other side in...entry #19? But you're quite right - it's never used as a term in any of the entries, so my apologies.

And I like your TTA is Jay & Brian theory - I *do* think Brian is most likely to be Hoody (I was rather surprised to see him behind Tim in the poll above, until I realised most of those casting votes probably had done so long before we knew for certain Hoody & Masky were different people). Do you think Jay is aware he's TTA and is being an unreliable narrator, or are you going for some sort of fugue state? Certainly, encounters with The Operator seem to induce a certain staring vacancy in people...


I suspect a similar level of disconnect that Tim experiences when he "becomes" Masky. He isn't consciously aware of his actions. Actually, Tim and Masky might be separate personalities, likewise so might Jay and TTA.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:55 pm
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Jingleman
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Joined: 29 Aug 2012
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Cougar Draven wrote:
I'd love to see one person suggest an alternative to Jay being one half of TTA that satisfies Occam's Razor. PROTIP: I've been suggesting it for half a year now and I haven't seen a single one.

Just a reminder: Occam's Razor isn't a standard to be satisfied, it's a tool to guide the choice between hypotheses of varying complexity. "Simplicity" in the humanities is essentially impossible to define, therefore Occam's Razor is rarely useful in literature. But I've mentioned all that before.

More to the point, Jay thinks that TTA is someone else (#19). For him to be TTA, or part of a TTA group (which is a whole other controversy), we would have to assume that he's lying, or that he's got a split personality that keeps coming out, sending messages to the normal Jay, then wiping the memory. How is that a simpler theory than saying that the things Jay thinks are being done to him are actually being done to him? How is it more complicated for the character who appears to know the most, TTA, to actually know how to do these things to Jay, especially if, as most people think, it's someone who's been part of Jay's life?

If Jay's to be part of a TTA group, which would have to include Hoody and Masky already, it necessarily adds another layer of complexity by requiring a third person. Your complete theory itself requires splitting of filming duties, which opens it up to even more complexity when you try to figure out who could have filmed what. More people as TTA isn't simpler than fewer people as TTA. I still call it one, plus victimized minions, but that's for another discussion.

Mind you, Jay being a contributing member of a TTA partnership, as you seem to be suggesting, is a very different theory to one that says Jay is occasionally put in a fugue state, hypnotic state, or similar situation and then totally controlled by an outside character and forced to do things.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:11 pm
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Parietal Lobectomy
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Cougar Draven wrote:
Parietal Lobectomy wrote:
Cougar Draven wrote:

Quote:
Snipped


First of all, don't use "proxy". It's wholly inappropriate to use in a Marble Hornets context, given that the definition of the word doesn't apply to anyone.

Second, my full theory is that Jay handles the computer aspect of TTA, and filming is split between Jay and Brian, who is Hoody.


My apologies. I'd been using "Proxy" as a shortcut for "under The Operator's control" which could be supported by what we've seen (during the lost time, and when Jay went out of his door to not come out the other side in...entry #19? But you're quite right - it's never used as a term in any of the entries, so my apologies.

And I like your TTA is Jay & Brian theory - I *do* think Brian is most likely to be Hoody (I was rather surprised to see him behind Tim in the poll above, until I realised most of those casting votes probably had done so long before we knew for certain Hoody & Masky were different people). Do you think Jay is aware he's TTA and is being an unreliable narrator, or are you going for some sort of fugue state? Certainly, encounters with The Operator seem to induce a certain staring vacancy in people...


I suspect a similar level of disconnect that Tim experiences when he "becomes" Masky. He isn't consciously aware of his actions. Actually, Tim and Masky might be separate personalities, likewise so might Jay and TTA.


It'll be interesting to see if "Masky" has a distinct personality, or if he's just all Operator-(and Alex)-hating Id. But TTA does seem to have more of a personality.

Were all of the original cast caught up in TO's web? I was re-watching Sarah's main entry, and she there was a comment about her "needing the script in every scene". A subtle reference to memory loss. They're all a bit tetchy, although this might be in response to the massive hissy fit Alex is throwing...

OOG
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
incidentally, watching that entry again reminded me of how crappy Tim's acting seemed in the original Marble Hornets movie. Now we know OOG Tim is a fantastic actor, it seems he's even good enough to be able to act badly *doffs cap to OOG Tim*


PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:12 pm
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Lithp
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 		I love how no one ever agrees about what satisfies Occam's Razor.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:19 pm
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Nathanial
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 		Wait, has nobody actually considered the 1992 Denver Broncos?

No but seriously, I've always had a feeling its been Sarah, or a collective of people. I mainly lurk and read everyone's thoughts every day, because you guys look into it more deep than I have the time to.

So I just wanted to say, keep up the good work Smile

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:28 pm
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Jingleman
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Lithp wrote:
I love how no one ever agrees about what satisfies Occam's Razor.

That's because it's not very useful outside of hard science. Too many ways to define "simple." That, and it's not something to satisfy; it's just to help look at relative simplicity. Using it this way is the same as saying, "My theory is less complicated than yours, if you let me define what counts as simple." That means very little in literature and other storytelling media, especially when the genre of the work requires mystery, twists, and surprises.

I'm sorry that I'm repeating myself without really adding anything; I won't do it again for a while (I'll try restraint, at least). This just hits on a pet peeve of mine going back to my undergrad days. Occam's Razor just isn't meant for this; appealing to it as authority makes for a weak argument, and most people are cleverer than that if they would just realize what they're doing.

And 1992 was a good year for my Dallas Cowboys. Just sayin'.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:32 pm
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Andvalli
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 		I forgot why some people view Jay being part of TTA as a sound conclusion to draw. Or maybe I never heard a convincing argument to begin with. Surprised

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:14 am
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